:fixed:
US aluminum and steel mills restating idle plants...
- Thread starter Bird Dog
- Start date
:fixed:
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
Steel prices rose in April. American steel is a good bit more expensive than all others.
http://steelbenchmarker.com/files/history.pdf
And since Trump's tariffs apply to raw steel, American producers are getting the shaft because they are forced to purchase steel at a higher cost in order to make a product, but foreign products are not subject to the tariffs.
Trade Partnership estimates almost 150,000 lost jobs due to the tariffs.
http://tradepartnership.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/232EmploymentPolicyBrief.pdf
http://steelbenchmarker.com/files/history.pdf
And since Trump's tariffs apply to raw steel, American producers are getting the shaft because they are forced to purchase steel at a higher cost in order to make a product, but foreign products are not subject to the tariffs.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/...small-companies-say?__twitter_impression=true
Trade Partnership estimates almost 150,000 lost jobs due to the tariffs.
http://tradepartnership.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/232EmploymentPolicyBrief.pdf
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
Are you under the impression that these things happen overnight?
black dog
Free America
That's funny that the mill up above me has been working overtime for over a year now with no end in sight.
Plus lots of things that were made out of steel for a 100 years are now made from plastic.
Clem72
Well-Known Member
There is no "raw" steel, only different alloys and percentages of carbon / doping elements. If they import steel, thay aren't producing steel (I.E. smelting iron ore and removing carbon) they are taking steel ingots and rening it into stainless steel, spring, tool, etc.
If they were making steel, their import would be iron and not subject to tariff. Saying these are American steel companies is like saying the computer tech support guy with a thick Indian accent is truly named Jim and is from San Antonio.
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
Raw is unprocessed steel. i.e. rolled bands.
These are steel insert word here companies. They use raw, unprocessed steel (bands/rolls) and make products with it.
They make steel products. The products are not subject to tariffs, but since steel prices are apparently higher for these companies they are forced to either pass the cost increase down or eat into profit (which is likely already slim). Their gripe is that, say, a Chinese company can use their own cheap steel and make a product available for import. That product isn't subject to tariffs so now the Chinese company has an advantage.
No .....
Trade Partnership estimates almost 150,000 lost jobs due to the tariffs.
http://tradepartnership.com/wp-conte...olicyBrief.pdf
.... but that STATEMENT sounds like the JOBS are already gone, people already LAID off
Not:
Trade Partnership estimates almost 150,000 lost jobs will be lost in the coming months or years due to the tariffs.
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
That statement doesn't sound like that at all, to me anyway. I always assumed that the effects of tariffs don't happen overnight leading to hundreds of thousands of jobs gained and hundreds of thousands lost, to a net average of approx. -160,000 jobs.
fair enough ....
well to me take at face value the sentence seems fairly declarative ... otherwise it is not that damn difficult to be SPECIFIC so assumptions do not have to be made
Clem72
Well-Known Member
So in other words, they are exactly the people intended to affected by the tariff. Who else would buy bulk steel from overseas except companies that make things out of steel? The tariff is supposed to make it more attractive for them to buy steel domestically, but it was already known that this would affect their bottom line.
American products (made with American labor and American resources) cost more than import Chinese products. News at 11.
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
And because of that, Americans will pay more for their goods and have less spending power.
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
I think most people realize that businesses ride out waves and jobs being added or lost take time to come to fruition. Are you expecting them to say "On day 63 post-tariffs, 13 jobs will be lost. On day 64, 1 job will be added...."? It's an estimate. It's not intended to be specific.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
If I may ...
Everything being argued here is apples and oranges. When argued in the frame of a (fiat) debt based monetary system. Prior to August 15, 1971, when the gold, (a sound money standard), was coupled to the US dollar, the dollar was stable, things were pretty good. The manufacturing sector was strong. Employment high. Our standard of living, excellent. After, August 15, 1971, when gold was decoupled, things changed drastically. Think 1973 oil OPEC embargo crisis. It is monetary policy that has caused all the woes this county has seen. Period. The expansion of the money supply, aka inflation, caused business to seek cheaper labor, (the most expensive line item in business) in other countries. In other words, we exported our inflated dollars to keep manufacturing costs down to have cheaper products. All the while giving those of us here the false appearance of prosperity. "Hey, my dollar guys more." We thought. When in actuality it didn't when compared US labor v foreign labor. That is why companies seek "cheaper" steel and steel related products, overseas. It is inflation of the dollar that causes this. Steel requires intensive labor, from mining to refining. Absent going back to a sound, such as the gold standard, monetary system, there is nothing that will work to shore up manufacturing for the long term. Nothing. So, everyone's argument over tariffs, is moot, when done so within, and not accounting for, a decoupled fiat debt based monetary system. Same goes with government. But government already knows all of this. So what we see is government trying to keep the veil over us so we think what they are doing is to help us. When in actuality, it is just kicking the can down the road a little further to stave off what will eventually happen. Economic collapse.
Everything being argued here is apples and oranges. When argued in the frame of a (fiat) debt based monetary system. Prior to August 15, 1971, when the gold, (a sound money standard), was coupled to the US dollar, the dollar was stable, things were pretty good. The manufacturing sector was strong. Employment high. Our standard of living, excellent. After, August 15, 1971, when gold was decoupled, things changed drastically. Think 1973 oil OPEC embargo crisis. It is monetary policy that has caused all the woes this county has seen. Period. The expansion of the money supply, aka inflation, caused business to seek cheaper labor, (the most expensive line item in business) in other countries. In other words, we exported our inflated dollars to keep manufacturing costs down to have cheaper products. All the while giving those of us here the false appearance of prosperity. "Hey, my dollar guys more." We thought. When in actuality it didn't when compared US labor v foreign labor. That is why companies seek "cheaper" steel and steel related products, overseas. It is inflation of the dollar that causes this. Steel requires intensive labor, from mining to refining. Absent going back to a sound, such as the gold standard, monetary system, there is nothing that will work to shore up manufacturing for the long term. Nothing. So, everyone's argument over tariffs, is moot, when done so within, and not accounting for, a decoupled fiat debt based monetary system. Same goes with government. But government already knows all of this. So what we see is government trying to keep the veil over us so we think what they are doing is to help us. When in actuality, it is just kicking the can down the road a little further to stave off what will eventually happen. Economic collapse.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
If I may ...
And a bit about inflation and it's causes ... 1) All money is created out of thin air when bankers issue loans. 2) Like a game of musical chairs, there is never enough money in circulation to pay off both the principle and interest. 3) To keep this debt-slavery scam working, the money supply must be gradually increased. 4) The actual inflation rate and total money supply are unknown. The Inflation statistics reported by the government are highly politicized and often have no basis in reality due to deceptive statistical trickery (lying). 5) All governments in the western world ceded their regulation of money creation to private bankers whose purpose is to keep us continuously buried in debt (aka, working for their benefit and profit) 6) Inflation (money losing value) is a symptom of this legalized-counterfeiting, debt-enslavement scam. And 6) QE, or quantitative easement, 1,2,3,4 etc, where trillions were created out of thin air, were dumped, and continue to be dumped adding even more inflation into our economy where the prices of goods and service continue to rise ever more, to infinity. Which is why, even with raises over the years, most every worker, just never seems to get ahead, and why many even go under.
And a bit about inflation and it's causes ... 1) All money is created out of thin air when bankers issue loans. 2) Like a game of musical chairs, there is never enough money in circulation to pay off both the principle and interest. 3) To keep this debt-slavery scam working, the money supply must be gradually increased. 4) The actual inflation rate and total money supply are unknown. The Inflation statistics reported by the government are highly politicized and often have no basis in reality due to deceptive statistical trickery (lying). 5) All governments in the western world ceded their regulation of money creation to private bankers whose purpose is to keep us continuously buried in debt (aka, working for their benefit and profit) 6) Inflation (money losing value) is a symptom of this legalized-counterfeiting, debt-enslavement scam. And 6) QE, or quantitative easement, 1,2,3,4 etc, where trillions were created out of thin air, were dumped, and continue to be dumped adding even more inflation into our economy where the prices of goods and service continue to rise ever more, to infinity. Which is why, even with raises over the years, most every worker, just never seems to get ahead, and why many even go under.