Vatican: Naive in Seeking Peace w/Muslims

[Starman3000m]

Nothing changed except the names. Instead of Cephas, Paul, Apollos, it is Roman Catholic, Baptist, Pentecostal. Wake up! Scripture says this bickering is wrong.

Hi 2ndAmendment,
I know where you are coming from and I appreciate your sincere comments. However, we are also told in scripture to help others learn about Truth in worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. (John 4:23-24)

As you stated, nothing has changed and the Truth is nothing will change until the Lord Jesus Christ returns to set things straight. Perhaps ItalianScallion and I have been a bit bold in proclaiming what the Holy Bible states in comparison to varying doctrines but we are pointing people to what scripture says and not to what a present-day "religious leader" says.

I love ya, Brother, but please take this into consideration: I really do not believe that the Biblical references you cited indicated that Cephas, Paul and Apollos were preaching a different doctrinal message of Jesus Christ, only that followers were preferring the teaching of one personality over the other. This is quite a difference when we examine the doctrinal content of today's denominations and what is being preached to followers by the organized religions in the world.

We are not to be lukewarm followers of Christ and just watch people get sucked in and deceived by doctrines that usurp the authority of Jesus and place control in the hands of the denominational leaders who were taught what to say in seminary schools - taught by man. This was going on in the First-Century Church as well, thus, the reason for Paul's letter: 2 Timothy, Chapter 4

1: I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2: Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
5: But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

There are many people today in all churches who claim to be "Christian" and who sincerely believe that their church is the only one; else they wouldn't be there. However, the danger is when sincere people are sincerely deceived into thinking that they are saved just by being a member of their church which teaches another doctrine and another Christ.
Such will be those on Judgment Day when they come before Christ as in the following scenario from Matthew, Chapter 7:

21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24:Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26: And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28: And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

And the words of Paul, from 2 Corinthians, Chapter 11:

3: But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4: For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
5: For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
6: But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
7: Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?

 

[brendar buhl]

See what I mean? This post say that "the vatican is naive in seeking peace with the muslims". EVERYBODY here wants peace, but the vatican is still living in the stone age if they think we can NEGOTIATE with muslims. They'll stop fighting when the whole world converts to islam. Is that going to happen? NO. So the RCC is NAIVE in this respect. GEEEZZZ!

Christians are naive for expecting and seeking peace, correct. However that is the natural outcome of Christianity. If someone lives by the Spirit of God he is naturally going to seek peace. Anything else would be contrary to the Spirit and a house divided can not stand.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

Christians are naive for expecting and seeking peace, correct. However that is the natural outcome of Christianity. If someone lives by the Spirit of God he is naturally going to seek peace. Anything else would be contrary to the Spirit and a house divided can not stand.

Those posters are claiming to be "Christian" when they fail to do Christian.

And those criticize Catholicism for acting like Christ told us all to do.

We say to take up our crosses and those see it as foolishness link HERE.

No one can be attacking the Muslims while carrying a cross.

 

[brendar buhl]

Those posters are claiming to be "Christian" when they fail to do Christian.

And those criticize Catholicism for acting like Christ told us all to do.

We say to take up our crosses and those see it as foolishness link HERE.

No one can be attacking the Muslims while carrying a cross.

"They" aren't failing anymore than the rest of us. You may have found the needle of what we agree upon in the haystack of what we disagree upon, but "they" are good Christians who are struggling with feelings brought about by terrorism. A little understanding goes a long way.

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

"They" aren't failing anymore than the rest of us. You may have found the needle of what we agree upon in the haystack of what we disagree upon, but "they" are good Christians who are struggling with feelings brought about by terrorism. A little understanding goes a long way.

That makes sense but it also is pampering the Christians as if they can not handle the truth of Christ.

The self righteous "Christians" like President Bush and the posters on this forum are promoting violence, demanding more war, endorse the torture of prisoners and the denial of torture at the same time. These are promoting religious intolerance and bigotry against Islam in the name of their version of Jesus Christ and yet we are to cuddle and pamper those beligerant Christians because they can not handle the truth of Christ that denounces their hypocrisy and their immorality? I say not.

You call those "good" Christians but where is the "good" in their hateful words? and in their sinful actions?

The trials and tribulations like "terrorism" is to bring out the virtue of Christ and not justification for hiding it.

 

[Giantone]

And the Muslims have full right to fight back and to attack against the Christian and Americans violent aggressions,
link HERE.

So now you're a traitor along with all your other accomplishments,you hate thia country, you hate it's laws.........do us all a favor ...leave it ,shut up and don't respond!

 

[Starman3000m]

FOR THE RECORD:

JPC sr Comments on Islam, al-Qaeda and the "virtues" of Osama bin Laden:
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types.html

I say it is not correct to deny the rightful religious claims of the Al-Qaeda group just because of its political or its violent activities.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types.html

The Muslims only tells us to submit to God.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-2.html

Well I like all the quotes you used above and I must say it reminds me of why I love the Quran so much.

But I do not agree with any of the comments by that poster giving the quotes. Now us Christians could learn very much in righteousness from our sister religion of Islam.

And it needs to be pointed out that Bin Laden also endorses the Quran quotes given above and yet he is giving the USA infidels a chance for peace and to end the hostilities.

That Bin Laden is truely beginning to rise to the level of a great Holy man and indeed a Holy warrior too.

The USA needs to pay attention to what is being said and make peace while we still can.

http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-3.html

… Islam is great, Muslims are cool, the Quran is wonderful,..
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-5.html

The point of this thread, and still stands, is demonstrated in the above post.

That the USA propaganda is trying to denounce the Muslims and trying to discredit great Islam while it is the USA that is promoting wars and pushing injustices all over the world including in our own USA.

Mike above shares the same immoral stance as our beligerant President and not of Muslims and not the position of Bin Laden.
It is the USA that is doing wrong and we need to stop it.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-8.html

… Bin Laden offered peace terms and not to "kill them all" as the Christian type say.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-10.html

Bin Laden does not ask for Christians to convert to Islam, he ask infidels to do that, and rightly so.

But for peace the terms have been spelled out long ago and still exist:

stop the wars of agression,

take military out of Muslim Holy Lands,

justice for Palestine.

If the USA did repent of only these then the hostilities would stop and Islam would again welcome their sister religion of Christianity that is in the USA.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-11.html

… Both the Christians and the Jews only want more murders, more war, no peace intentions at all.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-11.html

… I do not really support it or agree with it but I do understand their grievances and that they want justice and violence is the only option left to them against such an arrogant and beligerant oppressor.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-12.html

… I am one of millions of parents that were persecuted under the evil child support laws.

Of course I fought back and spray painted their nasty Court house with :

"Child Support Thieves" , and , "Thou Shalt Not Steal" ,
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-20.html

… while my position is backed up by the Bible and by God's command.
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types-20.html

 

[JPC sr]

Batman

FOR THE RECORD:

JPC sr Comments on Islam, al-Qaeda and the "virtues" of Osama bin Laden:
http://forums.somd.com/religion/112685-muslim-types.html

My post here are not hidden from anyone except those few that got deleted.

Is this another - attack the messanger to avoid the message effort?

And FYI, if you want to link to a specific post then click the # in the upper right corner of the post like this # 47 link HERE and then only that one post only shows up on the link.

I am very pleased with all my postings and I stand by all my words.

 

[bcp]

I am very pleased with all my postings and I stand by all my words.

If I have said it once, Ive said it a million times.
you sir, are an idiot, however, you are without question an honest idiot.

for that, I find it hard to fault you.

 

[Starman3000m]

My post here are not hidden from anyone except those few that got deleted.

Is this another - attack the messanger to avoid the message effort?

And FYI, if you want to link to a specific post then click the # in the upper right corner of the post like this # 47 link HERE and then only that one post only shows up on the link.

I am very pleased with all my postings and I stand by all my words.

No, JPC sr, this is not another "attack the messenger to avoid the message" effort. Actually your quotes play right in to the subject of this thread because you too are "naive" if you really believe that non-Muslim societies can make "peace" with the Fundamental Islamic ideologies as taught in the Qur'an and Ahadith - and which are devoutly followed by the likes of bin Laden and al-Qaeda, Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia, Palestinian Authority, Hamas, Hezbullah, Islamic Jihad, Muslim Brotherhood, etc., etc.

The truth is the only peace Islam will accept is when Muslims wage Jihad to makes all societies submit to obey their god,Al'lah, and accept their prophet Muhammad as a superior prophet whose authority supersedes that of the New Testament Jesus.

If Muslims truly wanted peace, they would retract their pledge to wipe Israel off the map and would allow the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be presented to all Muslims in the world so that each of them can decide if He is The Son of God and Saviour of mankind. But, no, Islamic theology proclaims that any Muslim that converts to another religion is to be killed and that there will be a reward to whoever kills an apostate.

Fact: If you really want to make peace with Muslims you need to introduce them to the Prince of Peace, Jesus Christ, the Son of The Living God. But then, that would be against their religion to accept Jesus as God's Son, so, it looks like true peace with Muslims is not likely to happen unless it is exclusively on their terms and you submit to Islam.

BTW: Thanks for the tip on posting quotes. It's quite a bit easier that way and I wasn't aware of that feature. Thanks again, JPC sr, you are still in my prayers.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Hi 2ndAmendment,
I know where you are coming from and I appreciate your sincere comments. However, we are also told in scripture to help others learn about Truth in worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth. (John 4:23-24)

As you stated, nothing has changed and the Truth is nothing will change until the Lord Jesus Christ returns to set things straight. Perhaps ItalianScallion and I have been a bit bold in proclaiming what the Holy Bible states in comparison to varying doctrines but we are pointing people to what scripture says and not to what a present-day "religious leader" says.

I love ya, Brother, but please take this into consideration: I really do not believe that the Biblical references you cited indicated that Cephas, Paul and Apollos were preaching a different doctrinal message of Jesus Christ, only that followers were preferring the teaching of one personality over the other. This is quite a difference when we examine the doctrinal content of today's denominations and what is being preached to followers by the organized religions in the world.
...

Sigh.

I have posted scripture time and time again proclaiming Jesus as the Savior. I have never backed off from that.

Paul was chastising the early church goers because they were not proclaiming Christ but Cephas, Paul and Apollos and probably other congregation leaders. It was only Paul that rebuked those that were proclaiming him. Cephas did not if it was Peter and there are no writings of Cephas in the Bible if it was not him.

What Paul was saying is there is only One name by whom all humanity is to be saved. It is Y'shua, Jesus. You cannot be saved in the name of Peter, Paul, Mary, Joseph, Apollos, Cepahas, John, 2ndAmendment, Starman3000m, ItalianScallion, Muhammad, Allah, or any other name except Y'shua, Jesus, the Christ. Paul was saying that proclaiming anything else is foolishness.

It is no wonder that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. Christians spend so much time with the "My church is better than your church" stuff that we spend more time arguing amongst ourselves than proclaiming the Gospel. If we proclaimed Jesus as we should, we wouldn't have time to criticize other Christians.

Now, there are some blatant errors in some mainstream churches today with out a doubt. Some have been declared anathema and for good reason. Saying that any sin is OK is wrong. Period. It may not be PC, but it is Truth.

You may proclaim that Catholics or Baptists or Pentecostals or Methodists or pick a church is wrong in their doctrine, but I say you are wasting your time. A devout Catholic or whatever will not be argued into changing.

God gave us His Word and His way. It is plain to see for those that seek. You cannot force anyone to seek. God bless you, but I think you are spending time that is better spent proclaiming Jesus to the lost rather than trying to convert one brand of Christian to another brand.

Proclaim Jesus. Post scripture. Let each search for the Truth and Wisdom of God. I see error in every church I have ever gone to. Statues in one, not believing in the power of the Holy Spirit in another, not using the gifts according to scripture, believing that you have to speak in tongues to be saved or be empowered by the Holy Spirit. I can find scripture against all of those things and I have been to churches that have or practice all of those things.

Churches are full of and run by people and people are sinners. We get it wrong. I rely on Jesus to forgive me when I get it wrong. I may not have this right, but Jesus knows my heart and my motives.

As much as God wants all to come to Him, all won't come to Him. At judgment, every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord but it will be too late then for those who died without salvation. Concentrate your energy on proclaiming Jesus. If you, brendar buhl, ItalianScallion, Radiant1, and the rest of the Christians on this board, and I proclaimed Jesus instead of arguing among ourselves, the work of God would be done instead of the work of satan. We would be building the kingdom instead of letting satan distract us and goad us into arguing among ourselves.