Vision Correction

[ArkRescue]

We can all agree that YOU are not warm and fuzzy ................ you better hope you don't need the help of the warm & fuzzy people with your medical care in the future LOL

No. You have to drop that notion that any of your money is 'extra'. It is either a necessary expenditure, or it is banked / invested. It is never 'extra' and frittered away. :shrug:

And yes, never shall there be agreement here. There is nothing to agree on anyway. Either you are smart and 'cold', or you are emotional and full of warm fuzzies. And never the 'twain shall meet. :shrug:

 

[Merlin99]

Animals for the most part, don't realize they're handicapped, some of them get downright upset when you try to help them.

 

[ICit]

Merlin is right!

and even if I had that kind of money.... I will not just drop it for the dogs UNLESS... it is life or death. :shrug:

 

[TurboK9]

We can all agree that YOU are not warm and fuzzy ................ you better hope you don't need the help of the warm & fuzzy people with your medical care in the future LOL

There is a difference between 'medical care' and 'unecessary elective surgery'. I'd be the first to help someone with the former, and the last to ask for help with the latter.

Former: Lacerations, broken bones, infections, organ failure, disease, IE anything painful / life threatening.

Latter: Anything else.

I also judge the expense of treating the former VS euthanasia based on the expected longevity of the dog after treatment, IE I'm not going to pump (or expect anyone else to do so for me) thousands of dollars into a 14 year old dog. :shrug:

If I have to take out a loan? No thanks. Euthanize. Emotional attachment to an animal is still just that, and there is a limit to what that is worth.

For the record, you will NEVER catch me asking for help with some exorbitant vet bill... I'd rather reserve those favors for my humans.

I love dogs. I have dogs. I cherish and value my dogs. I am also not prone to illogical emotional reaction that flies in the face of all that is even just marginally intelligent. Bottom line is, a $200 dog can be replaced for a lot less than $5K, and in the end, it may just be kinder to the dog to do just that.

 

[ICit]

There is a difference between 'medical care' and 'unecessary elective surgery'. I'd be the first to help someone with the former, and the last to ask for help with the latter.

Former: Lacerations, broken bones, infections, organ failure, disease, IE anything painful / life threatening.

Latter: Anything else.

I also judge the expense of treating the former VS euthanasia based on the expected longevity of the dog after treatment, IE I'm not going to pump (or expect anyone else to do so for me) thousands of dollars into a 14 year old dog. :shrug:

If I have to take out a loan? No thanks. Euthanize. Emotional attachment to an animal is still just that, and there is a limit to what that is worth.

For the record, you will NEVER catch me asking for help with some exorbitant vet bill... I'd rather reserve those favors for my humans.

I love dogs. I have dogs. I cherish and value my dogs. I am also not prone to illogical emotional reaction that flies in the face of all that is even just marginally intelligent. Bottom line is, a $200 dog can be replaced for a lot less than $5K, and in the end, it may just be kinder to the dog to do just that.

you would not imagine the dumb crap I see everyweekend..... people not grasping reality.....
this past weekend took the cake...... It disturbed me to the fullest and made me wonder how cruel and ignortant people could be.... even thinking they were doing good for the last 9 years of this poor dogs life.... as he should have been put to sleep as a puppy. sad to say but its the truth. There was no "life", spark in this dogs eyes.... just sadness.... unable to walk, stand, move, sit up..... yep.... inbreeding is great... its a lab was a little over 30lbs.. big head.. but small body... he had a genetic disorder where he couldnt use his back legs.. they carry him (like a football) they do have a wheelchair for him but now he has such poor condition over all he cant even use his front legs..... just soo sad

 

[ArkRescue]

I get what you mean but that's just YOUR opinion and other people are at the other extreme as I mentioned earlier. being in rescue, I would not be able to spend $5k on 1 critter for life-betterment when I could use those $$ to help many other critters. If money were no object I would do it ALL.

I think most people do consider the critters age in treatment, but I have heard of people who try to extend the life of their elderly critter while the critter suffers. That I could not do.

AND How dare you refer to me as a warm & fuzzy type ....

There is a difference between 'medical care' and 'unecessary elective surgery'. I'd be the first to help someone with the former, and the last to ask for help with the latter.

Former: Lacerations, broken bones, infections, organ failure, disease, IE anything painful / life threatening.

Latter: Anything else.

I also judge the expense of treating the former VS euthanasia based on the expected longevity of the dog after treatment, IE I'm not going to pump (or expect anyone else to do so for me) thousands of dollars into a 14 year old dog. :shrug:

If I have to take out a loan? No thanks. Euthanize. Emotional attachment to an animal is still just that, and there is a limit to what that is worth.

For the record, you will NEVER catch me asking for help with some exorbitant vet bill... I'd rather reserve those favors for my humans.

I love dogs. I have dogs. I cherish and value my dogs. I am also not prone to illogical emotional reaction that flies in the face of all that is even just marginally intelligent. Bottom line is, a $200 dog can be replaced for a lot less than $5K, and in the end, it may just be kinder to the dog to do just that.

 

[ICit]

I get what you mean but that's just YOUR opinion and other people are at the other extreme as I mentioned earlier. being in rescue, I would not be able to spend $5k on 1 critter for life-betterment when I could use those $$ to help many other critters. If money were no object I would do it ALL.

I think most people do consider the critters age in treatment, but I have heard of people who try to extend the life of their elderly critter while the critter suffers. That I could not do.

AND How dare you refer to me as a warm & fuzzy type ....

most do not!! because we as humans are the most selfish things on earth... thats just how we are.

 

[TurboK9]

I get what you mean but that's just YOUR opinion and other people are at the other extreme as I mentioned earlier. being in rescue, I would not be able to spend $5k on 1 critter for life-betterment when I could use those $$ to help many other critters. If money were no object I would do it ALL.

I think most people do consider the critters age in treatment, but I have heard of people who try to extend the life of their elderly critter while the critter suffers. That I could not do.

AND How dare you refer to me as a warm & fuzzy type ....

I think you are missing that I am basing my opinion on fact. The FACT that a dog is nOT a child. The FACT that a dog is NOT a human. The FACT that they don't feel, emote, think, anything like the way we do. And the FACT that those in... well, your camp... like to BELIEVE they do.

So you might say my opinion is based on fact, good sense, and cold hard science, and in the end may be much kinder and humane then you are willing to accept... Whereas you opinion, is just that... being that it is based on nothing more than emotional reaction. Just because it makes YOU feel good to believe it, doesn't mean it is doing the dog justice.

 

[TurboK9]

Of course, the other thing to consider here...

No doubt they feel like they are doing something wonderful by restoring site to this poor rescue....

How much more wonderful would it be to leave the dog happily blind, and donate $5K to a rescue group where it'll save 20 other dogs?

Just a thought....

 

[ArkRescue]

and just what behavior on MY part has shown that I am of the type to make pets human? I've had several pets die that I have no clue what happened, and although I wish I knew, I didn't take them in for a necropsy.

I had a cat put down last year (only middle-aged) that had a liver disorder but I didn't have the money to pay for expensive liver tests so I didn't get the tests done. I take into consideration what good can come of spending the money and since the condition of the cat was such that KNOWING what was causing the liver failure wasn't in probability going to help her, it was more informational, so we treated her symptoms then eventually made the decision to put her down when we saw she was not doing well and was likely suffering.

Anyway just saying that I am not as bad as you paint me to be dear Turbo ......

I think you are missing that I am basing my opinion on fact. The FACT that a dog is nOT a child. The FACT that a dog is NOT a human. The FACT that they don't feel, emote, think, anything like the way we do. And the FACT that those in... well, your camp... like to BELIEVE they do.

So you might say my opinion is based on fact, good sense, and cold hard science, and in the end may be much kinder and humane then you are willing to accept... Whereas you opinion, is just that... being that it is based on nothing more than emotional reaction. Just because it makes YOU feel good to believe it, doesn't mean it is doing the dog justice.

 

[TurboK9]

and just what behavior on MY part has shown that I am of the type to make pets human? I've had several pets die that I have no clue what happened, and although I wish I knew, I didn't take them in for a necropsy.

I had a cat put down last year (only middle-aged) that had a liver disorder but I didn't have the money to pay for expensive liver tests so I didn't get the tests done. I take into consideration what good can come of spending the money and since the condition of the cat was such that KNOWING what was causing the liver failure wasn't in probability going to help her, it was more informational, so we treated her symptoms then eventually made the decision to put her down when we saw she was not doing well and was likely suffering.

Anyway just saying that I am not as bad as you paint me to be dear Turbo ......

Are you, or are you not, basing the decision on treatment upon what you have the money to do?

??

????


??????????


Hmm?

 

[ArkRescue]

I guess it came out sounding wrong to say I didn't have the money for the tests when in fact I didn't want to make available the money .... I could have rounded up the money had it been important enough .....

Are you, or are you not, basing the decision on treatment upon what you have the money to do?

??

????


??????????


Hmm?

 

[TurboK9]

I guess it came out sounding wrong to say I didn't have the money for the tests when in fact I didn't want to make available the money .... I could have rounded up the money had it been important enough .....

Riiiight.......

I could have built an escalator to the moon if it had been important enough.

Bottom line, available funds were the biggest influence on your decision, right or wrong?

 

[ArkRescue]

no available funds were not - it was that the money spent was not going to make a difference in whether she died or not.

Riiiight.......

I could have built an escalator to the moon if it had been important enough.

Bottom line, available funds were the biggest influence on your decision, right or wrong?

 

[TurboK9]

no available funds were not - it was that the money spent was not going to make a difference in whether she died or not.

No amount of money can prevent death. Everything dies.

Sooooo.....

Why are you so furiously fighting the idea that your decisions on animals are more emotionally based?

 

[ICit]

No amount of money can prevent death. Everything dies.

Sooooo.....

Why are you so furiously fighting the idea that your decisions on animals are more emotionally based?

Heck... when I was dealing with a possible heart problem with one of my working dogs... I had decided.. If she had a heart issue and couldnt work... she had to go! :shrug:... I do love her.... but truth is... she would do me no good anymore..... I already had two dogs as pets.... I would have sent her packing to a pet home....

but it all turned out for the good!!!

 

[ArkRescue]

Because I think I've been doing rescue long enough to know how to make good money decisions in dealing with critters. I used to always take the vets recommendation and do all the blood work and all the other tests, etc. Now I use my experience and my access to people who have expertise to help decide what course of action to take. That way I maximize the money spent in each case and hopefully am not wasting any money <G>.

You are picking on me as if I do anything and everything for critters no matter what, and that's just not true. I am able to take their age and quality of life into consideration and stop their suffering if appropriate - some people do all they can to keep the critter alive because of their own selfishness.

I agree that my decisions in the years past have been emotionally tainted, but I do my best to make better decisions now that I know better. You did not know me back then so ......

No amount of money can prevent death. Everything dies.

Sooooo.....

Why are you so furiously fighting the idea that your decisions on animals are more emotionally based?

 

[TurboK9]

Because I think I've been doing rescue long enough to know how to make good money decisions in dealing with critters. I used to always take the vets recommendation and do all the blood work and all the other tests, etc. Now I use my experience and my access to people who have expertise to help decide what course of action to take. That way I maximize the money spent in each case and hopefully am not wasting any money <G>.

You are picking on me as if I do anything and everything for critters no matter what, and that's just not true. I am able to take their age and quality of life into consideration and stop their suffering if appropriate - some people do all they can to keep the critter alive because of their own selfishness.

I agree that my decisions in the years past have been emotionally tainted, but I do my best to make better decisions now that I know better. You did not know me back then so ......

:shrug:

I have to believe the very fact that you do rescue with such limited resources, is though noble, also based on emotional decision. You do more than you can afford, or than you can reasonably be expected to do. I think it's great in a way that you do it, but I would hardly say the decision you made to do it, is based on any type of thought-out logic. :shrug:

IMHO you sacrifice more of yourself than you save in animals, because you start out with sparse resources to begin with. That will change if you ever get to the point where you aren't having to drain your pockets and your health to do what it is you do.

And like I said, I do think it is noble, so no, I'm not belittling your efforts.

 

[TurboK9]

Heck... when I was dealing with a possible heart problem with one of my working dogs... I had decided.. If she had a heart issue and couldnt work... she had to go! :shrug:... I do love her.... but truth is... she would do me no good anymore..... I already had two dogs as pets.... I would have sent her packing to a pet home....

but it all turned out for the good!!!

A working dog is like having an employee or a working partner. You form a bond, but when all is said and done, if they can't do the job you have to 'fire' 'em. If they can't do the job, they are no longer a working dog. :shrug:

At that point, you CAN keep them as a companion, but you have to remember to keep that distinction.

No suprise to me that you can make that decision, people who work their dogs have to be able to do that, to be good at what they do. :shrug:

 

[ArkRescue]

Well you are correct it is hard to do, and I have been told by people near/dear to me that I should consider cutting back for a while so I can have more time for myself and reduce my critter expenses. I keep saying I'm going to slow down but then another critter comes along ...

... speaking of critters - know anyone looking for a wonderful kitten? Goliath needs to go to his forever home before he gets too used to calling my house his home .....

I have been involved in rescue critters since I was a kid. I only stopped when I spent 10 years in college half-time while working FT at the same time - I just did NOT have ANY time for critters other than my Rotties .....

:shrug:

I have to believe the very fact that you do rescue with such limited resources, is though noble, also based on emotional decision. You do more than you can afford, or than you can reasonably be expected to do. I think it's great in a way that you do it, but I would hardly say the decision you made to do it, is based on any type of thought-out logic. :shrug:

IMHO you sacrifice more of yourself than you save in animals, because you start out with sparse resources to begin with. That will change if you ever get to the point where you aren't having to drain your pockets and your health to do what it is you do.

And like I said, I do think it is noble, so no, I'm not belittling your efforts.