Viva La France

[vraiblonde]

BUT if they had not shown up at Yorktown the war would most definately been lost by the revolutionary forces.

And they were paid back - "Lafayette, we are here". What's your point?

How many foreign cars are out there? I for one, have 3 cars all American made and I'm proud of it.

We have a pair of Toyotas. Again, what's your point?

 

[SamSpade]

You're exactly right about the French and Indian war and about little help until Yorktown..BUT if they had not shown up at Yorktown the war would most definately been lost by the revolutionary forces. They have also been half hearted about most everything they have ever done not just in helping us. Just like the half hearted French nobody else wants to comment on the rest of my post? How many foreign cars are out there? I for one, have 3 cars all American made and I'm proud of it.

Actually, we might have won .... although we were bankrupt at that point, England was also weary of the fight. And re-taking New England - and keeping it - would have been more trouble than it was worth.

What *I'm* saying is, everyone who wants to defend the French always brings up Yorktown - but they ignore the attacks on shipping lanes and the Quasi War *right afterwards*! They ignore the attacks on British Florida and our attempts to expand west, *helping* the Spanish claims on the western lands, *siding* with the Confederacy and simulataneously invading Mexico. Make no mistake - France has always been on the same side - *France's*. There was nothing noble about any of their interventions. Frankly, they were useless as ground troops in the Revolution because they continually treated Americans with contempt - as they did in both WW1 and WW2.

(A good read on this - "Our Oldest Enemy" by John J Miller and Mark Molesky.)

The thing is, about Japanese cars is - they're still our friends. As are the English, our bitter enemies at one time. The French have *never* been our friends, and they certainly are not friends *NOW*, despite what people claim. My argument is not about boycotting the products of past enemies - they ARE our enemies.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Blah blah blah.....
I like the French. The whole thing is being sensationalized by the press to spark intrest. The true reality of it? There is a current trend in buying wine based on personal tastes. This is hurting the French wine makers of Burgundy and the Loire vally because the have rested too long on the laurels of being the example of premire wine. I personaly don't like California wine. Some French Reds are ok, but many are a bit bitter for my taste. I say go with anything from Tuscany.

 

[Railroad]

And re-taking New England - and keeping it - would have been more trouble than it was worth.

STILL IS!!!!

 

[Bustem' Down]

The thing is, about Japanese cars is - they're still our friends. As are the English, our bitter enemies at one time. The French have *never* been our friends, and they certainly are not friends *NOW*, despite what people claim. My argument is not about boycotting the products of past enemies - they ARE our enemies.

It's this type of arrogant attitude that is causing us to lose european allies. I hate this holier than thou attitude towards every country that some people in this country have. We are not so much better than others and all anyone ever points out about the French is their military record. There is more to a country than military might. Most of the French I've met we nice and goo people.

 

[Animal]

Wouldn't it be more realistic to say that our loss of European Allies is due more to our willingness to take on unpopular tasks that they have agreed to do on paper or by agreement within the international community and then they balk when it's time for the rubber to meet the road. They talk the talk but have never walked the walk. French and many other European nations are content to be conquered and ruled by others rather then fighting the fight to maintain their sovereignty, it's their nature. In other words they are chicken-crap cowards that cower when challenged. They are also one of the most corrupt countries around and will sell anything to anyone like criminals on the blackmarket regardless if they have agreed not to do so.

 

[vraiblonde]

Most of the French I've met we nice and goo people.

If they're so nice and good, why do they let Socialists run their country? And why do they let their elected officials break UN sanctions without repurcussion? Chirac should be impeached for his corruption, but I notice he's still sitting in the Prez seat.

 

[Lenny]

If they're so nice and good, why do they let Socialists run their country? And why do they let their elected officials break UN sanctions without repurcussion? Chirac should be impeached for his corruption, but I notice he's still sitting in the Prez seat.

The problem they're so....so....French!

 

[SmallTown]

If they're so nice and good, why do they let Socialists run their country? And why do they let their elected officials break UN sanctions without repurcussion? Chirac should be impeached for his corruption, but I notice he's still sitting in the Prez seat.

What do you think other countries think if they read about the mafia-like life of Mr. Clinton who was elected not once, but twice :shrug:

 

[SamSpade]

It's this type of arrogant attitude that is causing us to lose european allies.

We aren't "losing European allies". We're *gaining* them - they just happen to be countries like Poland and Romania.

We didn't LOSE France - they've never been on our side. Heck, just joking about France not being on our side goes back to at least the 60's, in my memory.

This isn't 'arrogance' - it's just history. They're NOT allies. When we can never count on their help, and can usually count on their opposition, whether it's the war or flying to bomb Libya, you can bet the French will be against us.

And I think supplying our *ENEMIES* with French weapons is as close to an enemy as you can get.

 

[Animal]

What do you think other countries think if they read about the mafia-like life of Mr. Clinton who was elected not once, but twice :shrug:

Ces Américains fous.

Die verrückten Amerikaner.

Esos Americanos locos.

Quegli Americani matti.

Die gekke Amerikanen.

Esses americanos loucos.

De gale Amerikanerne.

 

[vraiblonde]

What do you think other countries think if they read about the mafia-like life of Mr. Clinton who was elected not once, but twice :shrug:

They seemed to think that was just fine, judging from news reports back then. Maybe it reminded them of their own governments. :shrug:

 

[SmallTown]

They seemed to think that was just fine, judging from news reports back then. Maybe it reminded them of their own governments. :shrug:

could be :shrug:

 

[Bustem' Down]

If they're so nice and good, why do they let Socialists run their country? And why do they let their elected officials break UN sanctions without repurcussion? Chirac should be impeached for his corruption, but I notice he's still sitting in the Prez seat.

We have a socialist party in america. It's called freedom to choose who you want to run the country.

 

[Bustem' Down]

We aren't "losing European allies". We're *gaining* them - they just happen to be countries like Poland and Romania.

We didn't LOSE France - they've never been on our side. Heck, just joking about France not being on our side goes back to at least the 60's, in my memory.

This isn't 'arrogance' - it's just history. They're NOT allies. When we can never count on their help, and can usually count on their opposition, whether it's the war or flying to bomb Libya, you can bet the French will be against us.

And I think supplying our *ENEMIES* with French weapons is as close to an enemy as you can get.

We supplied Iraq with millions of dollars just beffore they invaded Kuwait. Thay may be French made weapons, but they were bought with American money. Ronald Reagan gave him the money. They have a right to govern how they want, without being pressured into doing something that they're people don't want to do. Why don't we just take control of western Europe and make it a Western Bloc and tell them what to do and not do like the Soviet Union did to eastern Europe for close to 50 years? Would that be right? Like it or not, we were the aggressors in this war, and I don't have a problem with that. I just don't expect everyone to think the same way as we do and that's fine. I won't pass judgement based on another country inaction.

 

[SamSpade]

We supplied Iraq with millions of dollars just beffore they invaded Kuwait. Thay may be French made weapons, but they were bought with American money. Ronald Reagan gave him the money.

*Really*? I'm sorry, but your information is a little misleading - the leading suppliers of weapons and arms to Iraq has been Russia, China and France over the years - which even a cursory examination of their arsenal would clearly reveal. Over the last 20 years, we've supplied them with about 1% of their total.

And we're getting off topic here. My concern wasn't that France *ever* supplied them with weapons - my concern was that France was selling them weapons *IN THE MONTHS RUNNING UP TO THE WAR*! Just who were these weapons to be used against? They also supplied them with night vision goggles, and the high ranking officials caught at the Syrian border had recently issued *French* passports. We were fighting a war, and they were helping our enemy. Under most circumstances in the world, that makes you an enemy as well - but for *some* reason, there are those who think that's ok.

Well I guess it IS ok, because it's about normal for *France*.

Like it or not, we were the aggressors in this war, and I don't have a problem with that.

I guess it's perspective. Apparently, Saddam shooting at our planes for thirteen years ISN'T aggressive. Paying off Palestinian families for suicide attacks isn't aggressive. Invading Kuwait, and then subsequently thwarting all of his conditions of surrender for thirteen years while making bellicose threats, building secret weapons programs, re-building long-range missiles *after* they'd supposedly been destroyed - oh what's the point.

Anyway, we were talking about *France* - and there's no doubt to me, they behave - *towards US* - as an enemy. Or at best, as slightly hostile. They don't get partial credit for a battle they helped out with 224 years ago.

 

[Bustem' Down]

So they were selling weapons. Ok, they are entitled to make a buck. Russia was selling them weapons too. We sold weapons to Afganistan. Just because a country's government decides that they don't want to get involved in OUR INVATION and they sell weapons to a country that we don't like doesn't make them an enemy. Russia is not our enemy. Germany was against the whole war just as much as France, but nobody talks bad about them, why? Becasue France is an easy scapegoat. We were the aggressors, there were no WMD's. The 2 months I spent in the persian gulf in 2000 saw nothing happen. Sure, there were words back and forth, some testing of limits, but that happened with Russia, we didn't invade. It happens with China and North Korea, and we haven't invaded. France is mearly slandered because they are made an easy target by the media. Why do you hear so much bad coming out of France on the news? Squeeky wheel gets the grease. What about spain? They pulled out and left us high and dry? Would I trust the county in a tight spot, probably not. But I think they get a real bad name from the media.

 

[Bustem' Down]

If the UK told us to stop selling weapons to Israel we'd tell them to mind thier own business, but the minute someone else sells weapons to someone we don't like, everybody is up in arms calling them traitors. Like we're so much better than them.

 

[SamSpade]

China and North Korea aren't *allies*. Russia has been our number one enemy in the world up until the early 90's, when Communism fell.

France supposedly has been our ally in numerous organizations. They're not. They behave precisely like China and North Korea, which you appear to agree with, since you stated it.

I'm not talking about "invading" enemies such as France, or China or North Korea. I'm saying (*sigh* - AGAIN) that they are NOT our friends. Just as China and North Korea are NOT.

 

[SamSpade]

If the UK told us to stop selling weapons to Israel we'd tell them to mind thier own business, but the minute someone else sells weapons to someone we don't like, everybody is up in arms calling them traitors. Like we're so much better than them.

Apparently, you're just not getting the point. If we were selling weapons to Israel while the UK was AT WAR with them, that puts us *against* them.

That's why Germany attacked us in WW2 - we were helping their enemies by supplying them with weapons.

This shouldn't be a difficult concept.