Vrai? Otter? Catt? Sparx?? ST??

[vraiblonde]

can you please expend the energy to say 8 good things about the dem party...

No. And it's not the "Democratic Party" per se that incites my wrath. It's the Leftists and Socialists who make up the bulk of the Democratic Party that I loathe.

but soo much more positives that outweight it...

For example....?

 

[SmallTown]

See. Whenever something negative pops up, it is always "the dems fault!" or the dems are complaining, and vrai was nice enough to give us examples.

However, lost in all of that, is that this most recent issue was not brought up by dems. It was brought up by troops in the field. The troops, unlike members of the media, asked very relevant questions and received pretty bogus responses. At one point Rumsfeld mentioned he wasn't aware of a lack of armor. I guess just Like Bush, he doesn't watch TV. Especially the presedential debates

At least our military is pretty resourceful. Who knows how many more may have been killed had it not been for those going to the scrap yards and making their own armor.

 

[vraiblonde]

See. Whenever something negative pops up, it is always "the dems fault!" or the dems are complaining, and vrai was nice enough to give us examples.

Did you even bother to read my posts? Please show me where I said ANYTHING was a Democrat's fault. I said LIBERALS whine and cry about Iraqi POW "abuse" and that is true. Dems took that to mean that I "hate" Democrats.

What I DID say was:

Then the Democrats will start investigations on any ties between the Bush Administration and whoever they get to manufacture the armor - "The guy that works on the assembly line at XYZ factory has a brother who went to the same church as Dick Cheney's cousin's wife's uncle! Corruption! Cronyism!!!"

And that is the truth as well. I don't recall too much outcry on the right side of the aisle about Halliburton, do you?

However, lost in all of that, is that this most recent issue was not brought up by dems.

And I never said it was, did I? Pull the stick out and quit reading into my posts, pretending I'm attacking your precious Democratic party when I'm not.

And here's a punch in the nose for good measure -

 

[SmallTown]

And I never said it was, did I? Pull the stick out and quit reading into my posts, pretending I'm attacking your precious Democratic party when I'm not.

And here's a punch in the nose for good measure -

No, the problem is you bringing up liberals in a discussion that wasn't a politial one. Unless of course you know for sure the couple thousand troops in attendance and asking questions were liberals. I did not discount the things you said about liberals, but that doesn't mean those notions are relevant to this discussion. I'm sure you can find plenty of anti-liberal threads where you can rant on

 

[vraiblonde]

No, the problem is you bringing up liberals in a discussion that wasn't a politial one.

What is apolitical about troops either A) not receiving the funding they need or B) getting caught up in the procurement process??? Private citizens don't provide for our military - the government does. Therefore politics plays a big part in whether our troops are well-equipped or not.

DEMS was the one who brought up hating Democrats (which I never said) AND she wanted me to name some positive thing Democrats had accomplished. She ALSO wanted to talk about lobbing fruitcakes at Iraqi soldiers, and my response to her was appropriate. Yell at her, not me.

ANYWAY back to the topic at hand. How to get adequate armor for our troops.

The TRUTH is that Bush/Rumsfeld/whoever can't just start ordering equipment from whoever they want. They ALSO must have the money to buy these things. I, personally, couldn't care less if George Bush awards a no-bid contract to Jenna and Barbara, as long as they can do the job and in a timely fashion. I also don't care if he has to reallocate funds in the budget for this. So sad for whatever state might not get their new roads this year - this is more important.

So where's the problem? Why aren't the troops adequately equipped? Or do you think that Donald Rumsfeld sits at his desk, rubbing his hands together with glee, trying to figure out ways to expose our troops as much as possible and get them all killed?

:dur:

 

[SmallTown]

I also don't care if he has to reallocate funds in the budget for this. So sad for whatever state might not get their new roads this year - this is more important.

 

[SmallTown]

Or do you think that Donald Rumsfeld sits at his desk, rubbing his hands together with glee, trying to figure out ways to expose our troops as much as possible and get them all killed?

:dur:

he thinks everything is fine:

"You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have."

"you can have all of the armor in the world on a tank, and a tank can be blown up..."

Strange words from the defense secretary who oversees the best trained and best equiped soldiers in the world. Or at least we thought they were the best equiped.

 

[ylexot]

Strange words from the defense secretary who oversees the best trained and best equiped soldiers in the world. Or at least we thought they were the best equiped.

So which soldiers have body armor? Probably just us and maybe the Brits. To say that our troops are not well equipped is just false. Could they be equipped better? Sure.

Another thing to keep in mind with body armor is that once it takes a hit, it gets thrown away. Also, I seriously doubt that the armor grandma bought was the same thing the military buys, but I'm sure it was better than nothing. Personally, I think if there are supply problems with the military body armor, get whatever can be had immediately and replace it with the good stuff as available. For example, immediately after 9/11, there was not a large enough supply of knee pads for rescue workers. Somebody had the brilliant idea to supplement the supply with rollerblading/skating kneepads. They were available and better than nothing.

 

[SmallTown]

So which soldiers have body armor? Probably just us and maybe the Brits.

Yea, Rumsfeld should go to the homes of soldiers who may have been spared their lives had they had the correct armor and say "Hey, look on the bright side. We are better equiped than the french!"

 

[Christy]

he thinks everything is fine:

"You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have."

"you can have all of the armor in the world on a tank, and a tank can be blown up..."

I don't believe he thinks everything is "fine", I think he's just being honest. Which is a hard pill for all the touchy feelies to swallow. :shrug:

 

[SmallTown]

I don't believe he thinks everything is "fine", I think he's just being honest. Which is a hard pill for all the touchy feelies to swallow. :shrug:

honest? perhaps. But it isn't his job to make excuses. We prefer people who make things happen.

 

[vraiblonde]

Or at least we thought they were the best equiped.

Okay, what the hell. I'll bite.

Who is better equipped than American troops?

"You go to war with the Army you have, not the Army you might want or wish to have."

"you can have all of the armor in the world on a tank, and a tank can be blown up..."

Help me understand what's so "strange" about these words.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that we should cut every bit of nonsense out of the budget and throw that money into the war effort. It would be over with a lot sooner if they'd throw the reporters out of there, quit with the touchy-feely silliness and get it done.

This is why no one wanted to deal with Iraq prior to Bush - it's a pain in the ass and there are a lot of things to consider in tossing out a country's leadership and replacing their whole system of government, while trying to stay on the good side of the citizens.

 

[Christy]

honest? perhaps. But it isn't his job to make excuses. We prefer people who make things happen.

Where was he making excuses? :shrug: He was stating a fact. Rumsfeld's hands are bound by gov't red tape.

Outside DoD, I can call Dell and have a computer delivered to my door in a few days, inside DoD, I've had my work computer on order since April 04.

We do specialized work that only our company is experienced in doing, but it can take upwards to a year to get all of the paperwork in order to actually do that work because of the whole long, drawn out process a contract must go through from start to finish. It's painfully slow and that is the reality of it. You add that on top of a company that would need to build a new factory, or modify an existing factory, it's even slower.

 

[SmallTown]

Okay, what the hell. I'll bite.

Who is better equipped than American troops?

Considering someone mentioned that maybe only us and the brits have body armor, I think just being better than the rest could leave us really short of what we need

 

[SmallTown]

Where was he making excuses? :shrug: He was stating a fact. Rumsfeld's hands are bound by gov't red tape.

So you honestly think that we can send troops all over the world on a momemts notice, send Aircraft, tanks, helos into areas on a whim, yet armor gets stuck in red tape? Hardly. The military, especially those in combat areas, normally have what they need when they need it. Now that it has come to the forefront of the media, I guess we'll see how much the red tape is reduced.

 

[dems4me]

What is apolitical about troops either A) not receiving the funding they need or B) getting caught up in the procurement process??? Private citizens don't provide for our military - the government does. Therefore politics plays a big part in whether our troops are well-equipped or not.

DEMS was the one who brought up hating Democrats (which I never said) AND she wanted me to name some positive thing Democrats had accomplished. She ALSO wanted to talk about lobbing fruitcakes at Iraqi soldiers, and my response to her was appropriate. Yell at her, not me.



Well mostly and I've repeated this several times in several posts on here, I was wondering how I as a citizen can help another family by sending adequate armor so someone doesn't get killed because of red tape and that has yet to be answered... :shrug:

 

[dems4me]

I also don't care if he has to reallocate funds in the budget for this. So sad for whatever state might not get their new roads this year - this is more important.

 

[ylexot]

Yea, Rumsfeld should go to the homes of soldiers who may have been spared their lives had they had the correct armor and say "Hey, look on the bright side. We are better equiped than the french!"

You can play stupid games like that all day long. I.e.:

Rumsfeld should go to the homes of soldiers who may have been spared their lives had they sent in a robot and say "Hey, look on the bright side. We are better equiped than the french!"

Rumsfeld should go to the homes of soldiers who may have been spared their lives had they dropped a big bomb instead and say "Hey, look on the bright side. We are better equiped than the french!"

The fact is that war is dangerous. People die. You can play the what if game forever, but you can't change the past.

At least I offered potential solutions. All you do is b!tch.

 

[dems4me]

You can play stupid games like that all day long. I.e.:

Rumsfeld should go to the homes of soldiers who may have been spared their lives had they sent in a robot and say "Hey, look on the bright side. We are better equiped than the french!"

Rumsfeld should go to the homes of soldiers who may have been spared their lives had they dropped a big bomb instead and say "Hey, look on the bright side. We are better equiped than the french!"

The fact is that war is dangerous. People die. You can play the what if game forever, but you can't change the past.

At least I offered potential solutions. All you do is b!tch.

Come on now... lets not fight this close to Christmas This thread was NOT created to pitt one against another..... If anything I asked 4 individuals that I trust for their opinion and suggestion on how to help only one of them has answered. :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

Well mostly and I've repeated this several times in several posts on here, I was wondering how I as a citizen can help another family by sending adequate armor so someone doesn't get killed because of red tape and that has yet to be answered... :shrug:

Dems, if you want to send the body armor over to the troops you would first have to know a person over there to obtain an address, then purchase some of the armor, and ship it to them. Include a note saying that if they already have their own that they should pass it on to another that doesn't. This isn't brain surgery.