What a great way to treat our soldiers

[itsbob]

Doesn't matter. Bush shouldn't even request it. So I'm not going to blame Congress for this one because they don't start the process - they just authorize or deny.

The problem the VA has (I think) is it gets abused.

I'm retired, and have never used a VA facility, yet I see people that have served as little as 2 years going back to the VA time and time again for things that aren't really service connected, but they get seen anyways.

The nursing homes the VA has are not the best, BUT you don't have to be destitute to be there. In other words, if you've spent 4 years in the Army and can someway weasel your way into a VA home why not? If you go to a local nursing home for the same care Medicaid requires you to be borke, and if you're not, they'll make sure you are before they are done.

I don't think the VA's intent was to provide lifetime care to somebody that served 2 years back in the 60's. Granted if they were wounded or hurt during their service the governemnt should provide care for those injuries, but the VA shouldn't be expected to provide "routine maintenance" to every single veteran that has ever served.

MAYBE instead of cutting funding they could stop the abuse, but then he'd be painted as uncaring, cold-blooded etc..

 

[itsbob]

My ex had a grandfather that was a WWII vet.. he got all his medical care at the VA. He only served 2 or 3 years, and nothing he was seen for would be considered service connected, but they continued to see him for everything to include spending his final days in a VA Nursing Home, where, being understaffed, fellow patients took care of him, feeding him.. comforting him during his final days.

This is not what the VA was intended for, but he was there for his country when it needed him, and in return they (the VA) kind of looked the other way, and was there for him when he needed them.

 

[PsyOps]

My ex had a grandfather that was a WWII vet.. he got all his medical care at the VA. He only served 2 or 3 years, and nothing he was seen for would be considered service connected, but they continued to see him for everything to include spending his final days in a VA Nursing Home, where, being understaffed, fellow patients took care of him, feeding him.. comforting him during his final days.

This is not what the VA was intended for, but he was there for his country when it needed him, and in return they (the VA) kind of looked the other way, and was there for him when he needed them.

Just so we are clear here... Walter Reed is not a VA hospital, it's a military hospital that services active and retired military and their dependents.

 

[itsbob]

Just so we are clear here... Walter Reed is not a VA hospital, it's a military hospital that services active and retired military and their dependents.

EXACTLY..

Vrai was talking about Bush's plan to cut some VA funding, WRAMC would not be included in those budget cuts.

 

[vraiblonde]

MAYBE instead of cutting funding they could stop the abuse, but then he'd be painted as uncaring, cold-blooded etc..

Well, he REALLY looks like a jerk for cutting VA funding. Stopping the abuse would be a better solution, but "better solutions" don't seem to be part of the Bush plan.

 

[itsbob]

Well, he REALLY looks like a jerk for cutting VA funding. Stopping the abuse would be a better solution, but "better solutions" don't seem to be part of the Bush plan.

I don't know details of what he plans on cutting.

Wish I could remember the name of the movie that was based on a VA hospital back in the 60's and 70's.. SCARY movie the way they treated patients then.

 

[PsyOps]

Well, he REALLY looks like a jerk for cutting VA funding. Stopping the abuse would be a better solution, but "better solutions" don't seem to be part of the Bush plan.

Maybe that is Bush's plan... "If you aren't going to regulate yourself and get better control over who receives these benefits, I have no choice but to cut your funding. I'm not going to allow you to waste the taxpayers' money this way."

 

[forestal]

blame Bush for the condition of Walter Reed? Really? Can you actually find someplace where I said that? I just questioned cutting the VA budget when the hospital needs some severe fixing up.

Of course not. For you it's always been your first inclination to blame Bush. I have spent considerable time at Walter Reed over the past 2 years and, despite the aging of the facilities, I found no declining of services or abilities to treat patients. It is your purpose to find any inkling negativity to ride your train of blame against Bush.

 

[forestal]

Maybe you didn't have the priviledge to stay in this fine room:

Behind the door of Army Spec. Jeremy Duncan's room, part of the wall is torn and hangs in the air, weighted down with black mold. When the wounded combat engineer stands in his shower and looks up, he can see the bathtub on the floor above through a rotted hole. The entire building, constructed between the world wars, often smells like greasy carry-out. Signs of neglect are everywhere: mouse droppings, belly-up ####roaches, stained carpets, cheap mattresses.

This is the world of Building 18, not the kind of place where Duncan expected to recover when he was evacuated to Walter Reed Army Medical Center from Iraq last February with a broken neck and a shredded left ear, nearly dead from blood loss. But the old lodge, just outside the gates of the hospital and five miles up the road from the White House, has housed hundreds of maimed soldiers recuperating from injuries suffered in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.​

Too bad it takes a liberal reporter, at a liberal newspaper, to help the vets get the proper care they need. Didn't see this story in the Washington Times did you?

My wife had to stay there for about a week after some pretty serious medical problems. I was active duty at the time and not deployed. Her room, in ICU, looked a little scratchy (paint pealing and such), but it was very clean. We have had to visit there multiple times over the past 2 years for checkups and related appointments, which means we went to various parts of the hospital. The hospital, in general, was no different than any other hospital I had been to. And I have been to a few (Doctor’s Hospital, Washington Hospital Center, Holy Cross, Malcolm Grow) because of my own and my dad’s health issues. We never had any problems getting appointments; the doctors and surgeons were the best. The nurses were the most professional and caring I can imagine. They have state-of-the-art equipment. Even with the large flow of wounded, they always treated my wife (and me) as first-class. There was not one moment she didn’t get the absolute best care. And she is a dependent. So you can imagine how they treated our war heroes.

I have had many opportunities to talk to some of them and they never seemed unhappy about their treatment, NOT ONE OF THEM! Many of them, despite their injuries, desire to go back and fight.

The impression I got about this article is the same impression I get about Forestal… They will exploit any fragment of bad news, no matter how overwhelming the good news may be, to further their agenda to demoralize this war. This has nothing to do with the condition of the hospital or the treatment of our troops. They care very little about that; but care a lot about their political agenda.

 

[MMDad]

blame Bush for the condition of Walter Reed? Really? Can you actually find someplace where I said that? I just questioned cutting the VA budget when the hospital needs some severe fixing up.

Answer this one: What is the connection between Walter Reed and VA funding? Here's a clue: there is no connection. Why don't you learn some facts before running your yammer hole?

So did you go to Walter Reed today to volunteer, or are you still all talk and no action?

 

[PsyOps]

blame Bush for the condition of Walter Reed? Really? Can you actually find someplace where I said that? I just questioned cutting the VA budget when the hospital needs some severe fixing up.

Yes I can Forest...

Don't expect much to change if Bush's plans for budget cuts continue..

When you accuse Bush of cutting VA budgets in the context of this thread and in the context of your undying desire to blame Bush for everything else that goes wrong, yes I believe you are accusing Bush for the declining condition of Walter Reed.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If you are not blaming Bush it will be a first.

 

[PsyOps]

Maybe you didn't have the priviledge to stay in this fine room

Yes Forest I read it already. I am appalled as much as you are that any of our troops have to endure such conditions, especially after giving so much on the battlefield. I know how badly you want to exploit this to make it sound like every injured soldier is recovering under these conditions, but this is not the case.

Did you watch the slideshow produced by the Post? They mentioned some of the shortcomings of the military medical programs: A soldier having to track his own existence I the medical fray, a Navy member that died from drinking too much, and one guy received Gyn records of another patient. They report this as though this was the norm within the military medical system. These examples typify lapses that exist in every medical system; military and civilian. They aren’t perfect as much as you and the Washington Post would expect them to be under the Bush admin.

But I will agree that if even one of our heroes is forced into these conditions, it’s unacceptable and should be fixed. But I refuse to typify the left’s desire to blame Bush for this. I served during Reagan, HW, Clinton and W. I watched budgets get slashed from HW throughout Clinton. This had a huge negative impact on training and operations and our medical community’s ability to properly treat our troops. At one point during the mid 90s we couldn’t even scrape money to get printer paper. During the 90s the AF suffered more peace-time casualties from airplane crashes than ever before, because they didn’t have the money to buy new parts. Mechanics had to strip parts from aircraft “boneyards” to fix their planes. By the time W became president such a huge void in all these aspects of our military had been created that Bush was left with quite a mess. Then we are thrust into war, not more than 7 months into Bush’s presidency. This is the equivalent to someone racking up credit card charges for 10 years, never paying them, then suddenly expected to pay them all off now. It will take years to pay them off, and it will take years to catch up to the cuts we suffered in the past. But they are proposing more cuts; so don’t expect this problem to just go away anytime soon.

These problems didn’t just suddenly materialize when Bush became president. But they came to light because of the war, and it’s all-too simplistic to blame Bush for it.

 

[itsbob]

blame Bush for the condition of Walter Reed? Really? Can you actually find someplace where I said that? I just questioned cutting the VA budget when the hospital needs some severe fixing up.

Do you know how to read?? One has nothing to do with the other.

The VA has NOTHING to do with WRAMC.

The hospital does not need fixing up as much as their transient quarters (hotel rooms) for outpatients. Get your story straight.

 

[itsbob]

Yes Forest I read it already. I am appalled as much as you are that any of our troops have to endure such conditions, especially after giving so much on the battlefield. I know how badly you want to exploit this to make it sound like every injured soldier is recovering under these conditions, but this is not the case.

Did you watch the slideshow produced by the Post? They mentioned some of the shortcomings of the military medical programs: A soldier having to track his own existence I the medical fray, a Navy member that died from drinking too much, and one guy received Gyn records of another patient. They report this as though this was the norm within the military medical system. These examples typify lapses that exist in every medical system; military and civilian. They aren’t perfect as much as you and the Washington Post would expect them to be under the Bush admin.

But I will agree that if even one of our heroes is forced into these conditions, it’s unacceptable and should be fixed. But I refuse to typify the left’s desire to blame Bush for this. I served during Reagan, HW, Clinton and W. I watched budgets get slashed from HW throughout Clinton. This had a huge negative impact on training and operations and our medical community’s ability to properly treat our troops. At one point during the mid 90s we couldn’t even scrape money to get printer paper. During the 90s the AF suffered more peace-time casualties from airplane crashes than ever before, because they didn’t have the money to buy new parts. Mechanics had to strip parts from aircraft “boneyards” to fix their planes. By the time W became president such a huge void in all these aspects of our military had been created that Bush was left with quite a mess. Then we are thrust into war, not more than 7 months into Bush’s presidency. This is the equivalent to someone racking up credit card charges for 10 years, never paying them, then suddenly expected to pay them all off now. It will take years to pay them off, and it will take years to catch up to the cuts we suffered in the past. But they are proposing more cuts; so don’t expect this problem to just go away anytime soon.

These problems didn’t just suddenly materialize when Bush became president. But they came to light because of the war, and it’s all-too simplistic to blame Bush for it.

I remeber walking around, four of us in a square holding on to each others web gear..

Doing Gunnery Exercises..

"Driver Move Out"

And the "driver" would start making Clankity Clank sounds as we walked through the field..

TC would spot a target..

"Gunner, Tank, Sabot, 1200 meters"

Loader would make the moves and sounds of loading a sabot round..

"UP!!!"

And the Gunner would reply

"IDENTIFIED!!"

TC

"FIRE"

Gunner would go..

"BOOOOM!!!, Target Destroyed!!"

And the whole time the driver is saying... "Clankity clank, I'm a tank!! Clankity Clank, I'm a tank!!" as we are walking through a grassy field..

Stupidest thing you'd ever see, and probably the stupidest thing I've ever done.. but the schedule said were supposed to be doing gunnery/ training so this is how we did it with no money for fuel or spares to take our tanks out of the motor pool, and more then half were broke. But we still had to train to defeat the Soviet Horde. ..

 

[PsyOps]

I remeber walking around, four of us in a square holding on to each others web gear..

Doing Gunnery Exercises..

"Driver Move Out"

And the "driver" would start making Clankity Clank sounds as we walked through the field..

TC would spot a target..

"Gunner, Tank, Sabot, 1200 meters"

Loader would make the moves and sounds of loading a sabot round..

"UP!!!"

And the Gunner would reply

"IDENTIFIED!!"

TC

"FIRE"

Gunner would go..

"BOOOOM!!!, Target Destroyed!!"

And the whole time the driver is saying... "Clankity clank, I'm a tank!! Clankity Clank, I'm a tank!!" as we are walking through a grassy field..

Stupidest thing you'd ever see, and probably the stupidest thing I've ever done.. but the schedule said were supposed to be doing gunnery/ training so this is how we did it with no money for fuel or spares to take our tanks out of the motor pool, and more then half were broke. But we still had to train to defeat the Soviet Horde. ..

That's sadly hillarious. But not funny at all. I suppose you could make a case for what's going on in Iraq a direct result of these training lapses as part of the cause for our lack of response to the insurgency.

 

[ylexot]

Yes I can Forest...



When you accuse Bush of cutting VA budgets in the context of this thread and in the context of your undying desire to blame Bush for everything else that goes wrong, yes I believe you are accusing Bush for the declining condition of Walter Reed.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If you are not blaming Bush it will be a first.

I thought this quote was more accusatory towards Bush...

that's right, keep blaming everything on the Dems, even though we know who's been running the show the past six years....

 

[Pete]

I joined the Navy in 1982 and from the very first day I realized the Military Medical Establishment has been a soup sandwich.

There are endless stories of people having to trek huge distances for some procedures, farmed out to civilian hospitals locally for some, referrals lost, wasted trips, paperwork lost, people in limbo for years waiting for medical boards, screwed up requirements, CHAMPUS claims denied, and generally a giant PITA.

It does not surprise me at all the administrative bullchit going on at Walter Reed because it happens everywhere. The big military hospitals generally draw people from all over a region, if not the world. The hospital has to treat them which is not the problem, it is what to do with them while they are hanging around waiting treatment or after treatment waiting to be released back to their units. How do you hold, and actively manage hundreds of outpatients who have no daily purpose (IE: something to do)?

Because of BRAC there are very few regional hospitals to send them back to for follow on treatment. When I was in Maine we sent some to Groton CT. but that was still a day drive back to the base so they had to either stay in Groton until they were finished or make weekly trips. What about kids with no car? What about young families with 1 car?

 

[forestal]

Splitting hairs here I think. I didn't blame Bush for creating the mess, but I am saying that cutting the budget for our veterans would impact repairing the mess.

Yes I can Forest...



When you accuse Bush of cutting VA budgets in the context of this thread and in the context of your undying desire to blame Bush for everything else that goes wrong, yes I believe you are accusing Bush for the declining condition of Walter Reed.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If you are not blaming Bush it will be a first.

 

[forestal]

I don't think I ever specifically said the hospital needed any sort of fixing up. Find it if you can.

You don't consider the transient quarters part of the Walter Reed Medical Center?

Moldy rooms are no place for the injured to recover to.

Do you know how to read?? One has nothing to do with the other.

The VA has NOTHING to do with WRAMC.

The hospital does not need fixing up as much as their transient quarters (hotel rooms) for outpatients. Get your story straight.

 

[forestal]

What a tangled web this is turning out to be....

Defense Secretary contradicts Army Surgeon General who contradictd top Army officials who contradicted the general in charge of Walter Reed
by <script type="text/javascript"> makeprofilelink("John in DC"); </script>John in DC · 2/23/2007 04:33:00 PM ET
Discuss this post here: Comments (14) · digg it · reddit · FARK · · Link

They really need to get their propaganda straight over there at the Pentagon. Apparently, things have changed - again - and the Walter Reed scandal is back into scandal status. This morning, you'll recall, it was lies all lies, per the Army Surgeon General. Yesterday those lies were being rectified and many already were fixed, per top Army officials. And the day before that the head of Walter Reed said the expose about Walter Reed was pretty much all lies.

Kind of hard to spin a 600,000 case backlog in veterans disability claims. But God knows they'll try.

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