What annnoys you more?
- Thread starter hamsterfang
- Start date
Guess that clears up whether you're a pitcher or a catcher, huh?BuddyLee said:I've been to two weddings and caught the garter belt on both occassions.
It must've been a ball to put them back on! 
B
Bruzilla
Guest
I have a good reason to not allow gay marriages. It will provide government sanctioning of the gay lifestyle. This will open two cans of worms. First, once gays receive government approval for civil marriage they will then try to force churches to recognize them as well. If you thought the abortion debate is heated, that'll be nothing compared to this!
The second can of worms is that if the gays are allowed to marry, who can't get married? If the argument is made that everyone has a right to get married, then you can't tell anyone that they can't get married. So adults can legally marry children, brothers can marry sisters, people can have multiple spouses, etc. And there will be no way to impose limits because the precedent will have been set that everyone has a right to get married.
The best way to solve this problem, if it really were a problem, would be to enact a law that says all established couples (who have been together for six months or more, share a residence, etc.) are entitled to the same benefits as a married couple. That way they can collect on insurance, visit those oft-mentioned sick loved ones in hospitals etc. But... I doubt that would make the gay community happy because in most states they already have those benefits.
What they really want is for a government to come out and give being Gay an official stamp of approval. That will open the door for their efforts to overcome the last, and biggest,hurdle to legitimizing their lifestyle - getting the church's to recognize them.
The second can of worms is that if the gays are allowed to marry, who can't get married? If the argument is made that everyone has a right to get married, then you can't tell anyone that they can't get married. So adults can legally marry children, brothers can marry sisters, people can have multiple spouses, etc. And there will be no way to impose limits because the precedent will have been set that everyone has a right to get married.
The best way to solve this problem, if it really were a problem, would be to enact a law that says all established couples (who have been together for six months or more, share a residence, etc.) are entitled to the same benefits as a married couple. That way they can collect on insurance, visit those oft-mentioned sick loved ones in hospitals etc. But... I doubt that would make the gay community happy because in most states they already have those benefits.
What they really want is for a government to come out and give being Gay an official stamp of approval. That will open the door for their efforts to overcome the last, and biggest,hurdle to legitimizing their lifestyle - getting the church's to recognize them.
I have the greatest respect for informed, thoughtful conservatives, moderates, and liberals. I, however, have no respect for the aforementioned who fail to provide logical basis for their opinions and resort to rehashing some knee-jerk, ideological reaction to an issue. While these people bother the crap out of me, they cannot match the amount of disrespect that I have for those that believe that are elected officials have no effect on our lives, especially those in my generation. The decisions that our president makes, our congressmen and senators, etc. make affect all of our lives on matters from our own personal checkbook to how our nation is protected and it really is too bad, that over 60% of those 18-24 don't see that.
Llwynog
Thats Welsh for fox.
Bruzilla said:
On the first point your probably right but I disagree with your second point. All states limit people to one living husband or wife at a time. They already have laws on age too.
What about those who have a sex change?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Double R...
You won't like this a bit but 18-24 year olds don't know enough about life and they way things should work in order to cast an intelligent vote. I've been 18-24 and I know a hell of a lot more now than I did then.
When you are 18-24 you are in the prime change era of your life. Growing into a full fledged man or woman, finishing education and carefree days, starting down a career path, looking at prospective mates, places you like, things you like to do and all, for the first time, in your own full power and at your own choice and/or whim. You, generic, may have an opinion but it isn't likely to be based on much.
It is much more likely that I, or another 40 year old, can give an 18-24 year old sound advice about the economy, foreign policy, the environment and civil rights than they could me.
I think many kids don't vote because they do take it seriously and they recognize that they don't know #### about anything.
Lords knows there's plenty of 40 year olds who could learn that from a youngin.
You won't like this a bit but 18-24 year olds don't know enough about life and they way things should work in order to cast an intelligent vote. I've been 18-24 and I know a hell of a lot more now than I did then.
When you are 18-24 you are in the prime change era of your life. Growing into a full fledged man or woman, finishing education and carefree days, starting down a career path, looking at prospective mates, places you like, things you like to do and all, for the first time, in your own full power and at your own choice and/or whim. You, generic, may have an opinion but it isn't likely to be based on much.
It is much more likely that I, or another 40 year old, can give an 18-24 year old sound advice about the economy, foreign policy, the environment and civil rights than they could me.
I think many kids don't vote because they do take it seriously and they recognize that they don't know #### about anything.
Lords knows there's plenty of 40 year olds who could learn that from a youngin.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
Llwynog said:
You need to remember what the approach the Gays are taking is - specifically that everyone has the right to marriage. There is no way they'll make the case that there should be a specific law making Gay marriage legal. What they are doing is taking the traditional definition of marriage, i.e., one man - one woman, with limits for age, etc., and asking that this be struck down as unconstitutional. Once this Pandora's Box is opened, the Gays aren't going to be able to slam the door shut behind them. Once the government becomes involved in determining who can and can't get married in strict legal terms, rather than based on traditional terms, they won't be able to limit anyone getting married because those limits, in the form of laws, will be deemed unconstitutional.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
rraley said:
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Llwynog...
...care to bring up what you thought you knew so I can make an example out of you?
...care to bring up what you thought you knew so I can make an example out of you?
Larry Gude said:
Mr. Gude, I cannot disagree with you more. Quite frankly, I think that this statement is one of the worst ones you have ever provided (and I have a great deal of respect for you). Yes, 18-24 year olds lack the same degree of experience that you have, but they have their own experiences to bring into the ballot box. They are in the process of paying for college. They are in the process of getting their first job. They have a completely different outlook on social issues than older Americans. These diverse experiences, if 18-24 year olds voted as much as older Americans, would add greatly to the American electorate. Perhaps if younger Americans voted more often, politicians wouldn't be so ready to enact spending and taxing bills that create large deficits or laws that put the future of Social Security and Medicare in jeopardy. Perhaps younger voters will put politicians into a more future-based mindset. What the greatest asset of younger voters, however, is that have idealism and passion, which I value much more highly than experience.
Furthermore, your statement that younger people don't vote because they are smart enough to know that they are not informed is condescending and baseless. As someone who is part of the younger generation, I can tell you what drives most young people away from the political process is a feeling of detachment and a feeling that neither side knows what the hell they are talking about. It is hard for some kid who makes $100 a week at college to relate to a 61-year old presidential candidate who raises over $200 million from special interests, etc. And furthermore, they honestly believe that the government has absolutely no effect on their lives. This is why young people don't vote, not because they know they are not informed.
Rraley, I'm going to start calling you "John Kerry" - you're good at the debate but your points lack substance and aren't based on reality.
Plus, you're still dependent on your parents - they feed you, clothe you, put a roof over your head, pay for your doctor bills. Therefore young people think someone else should ALWAYS pay their way because that's all they've ever known. It's only after you grow up and become self-supporting that you realize it's not fair because now YOU'RE the one paying someone else's way. And their not even your kids! They're complete strangers!
Socialized medicine is a great example of this. Young people are for it because they've never paid a doctor bill in their lives and they think that money comes from God or something. Old people are for it because they are the main beneficiaries of it and, since they're out of the work force, it's free goodies for them, too. People between those two age groups take a look at the taxes being taken out of their paychecks and go "Bullshit!!!"
So I hate to say young people don't know #### but...they don't. :shrug:
Young people don't have ANY experiences that their older counterparts don't have. You say "paying for college" and "getting their first job" like nobody over 25 has ever done that. We've not only been there, done that, but we've done WAY more. We've raised families. We've seen history first hand that younger people have only read about. We remember other wars because we fought in them, not because we heard some drone talking about them.
Experience is WAY more valuable than idealism and passion. You can be as idealistic and passionate as you want, but it takes experience and wisdom to run a country. Young people say "We have new ideas" but you don't, not really. Everything I've ever heard a young person suggest as a "new" idea, I've seen it in action either in this country or another country. So the ideas are only new to you, not anyone who's been around for longer than 20 years.
I will suggest what drives them away is lack of interest. And it's typical of under 25s to think that they know more, fresh out of college, than experienced people who've been doing this for years. Young people are still searching for meaning in their lives and still "finding themsleves". They aren't in a position to make important decisions about our country because they have no background or working knowledge to base those decisions on.
But it's not hard for that politician to relate to a $100 a week college kid - that politician used to BE that college kid. And your statement proves my point that young people don't have the background or perspective to make an educated vote.
Kicker line. If young people truly believe that government has no effect on their lives, then they are completely ignorant. The reason you don't see the effect government has on your life is because you're too busy doing young person things to notice.
Plus, you're still dependent on your parents - they feed you, clothe you, put a roof over your head, pay for your doctor bills. Therefore young people think someone else should ALWAYS pay their way because that's all they've ever known. It's only after you grow up and become self-supporting that you realize it's not fair because now YOU'RE the one paying someone else's way. And their not even your kids! They're complete strangers!
Socialized medicine is a great example of this. Young people are for it because they've never paid a doctor bill in their lives and they think that money comes from God or something. Old people are for it because they are the main beneficiaries of it and, since they're out of the work force, it's free goodies for them, too. People between those two age groups take a look at the taxes being taken out of their paychecks and go "Bullshit!!!"
So I hate to say young people don't know #### but...they don't. :shrug:
Addendum:
Which is not to say, Rraley, that you should quit thinking about the process and toying with opinions. Just don't get too attached to those opinons because they (and you) are going to change a lot in the next 20 years as you get older and gain more experience.
Which is not to say, Rraley, that you should quit thinking about the process and toying with opinions. Just don't get too attached to those opinons because they (and you) are going to change a lot in the next 20 years as you get older and gain more experience.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
Vrai!!! I can't believe the passion I'm seeing and feeling in your words! Wow! I think you nailed every point just right. I think rr's heart is in the right place, but as we "Old Folks" know, what he's really doing is projecting his beliefs and attitudes on others. I know that he's a serious, dedicated, and concerned individual and that he likely always will be reguardless of his age. But that doesn't mean that he's in the majority of his age group.
Kids who are rr's age feel that they know "everything" or at least "a lot" because they have yet to develop the cognitive understanding that everything known or experienced is not everything there is to know or experience. They'll say they realize it, but deep down his mind is saying "yeah... but I know I'm right." I'll never know as much as my Dad and my son will never know as much as me. There is only one thing that will give rr that vital realization, and that's experience. Once he's been out in the real World for ten or so years, once he's seen all of the "new" ways to do things fail for the third or forth time, once he's been personally shafted by friend and foe alike, then he'll say "Vrai, you were right for kicking me in the butt in 2004."
Kids who are rr's age feel that they know "everything" or at least "a lot" because they have yet to develop the cognitive understanding that everything known or experienced is not everything there is to know or experience. They'll say they realize it, but deep down his mind is saying "yeah... but I know I'm right." I'll never know as much as my Dad and my son will never know as much as me. There is only one thing that will give rr that vital realization, and that's experience. Once he's been out in the real World for ten or so years, once he's seen all of the "new" ways to do things fail for the third or forth time, once he's been personally shafted by friend and foe alike, then he'll say "Vrai, you were right for kicking me in the butt in 2004."