What does being a Christian mean to you?

[ProximaCentauri]

Well that's a load of horse ####. Also, perceptions are NOT reality. That mindset makes me insane, because it is false, and people like that tend to surround themselves with phony individuals. Take movie stars for example. They surround themselves with individuals who will tell them how smart they are, and how generous and compassionate they are, when most are narcissistic crazy people who really don't care about anyone but themselves and sustain themselves with bull####.

I suspect my definition of horrible is very different than most. I view horrible as failing each other in one way or another, and we've all done that. If you don't ever think that you were horrible for failing a friend, family member, or a child in some way shape or form, you're one of those crazy people who twists their brain (and their perception of reality) into something that is false.

I'm not afraid to say I'm a horrible person, because I am sometimes. When you ignore that about yourself, that is where you start to fall short because perfect people never strive to be better, they're content with where they are and do very little to be a better human being.

JMHO. :shrug:

The point that was being made, but apparently lost on you, is that perceptions can and will influence one's personal 'reality', noting that 'personal reality' does not equate to true or absolute reality. As an aside, absolute reality is not really perceived by anyone due to imperfections and latencies inherent in the five senses.

You are obviously a person that feels they have more of a bead on objective reality than most. That attitude is fine by me. The more objective we all can be about ourselves and others, the better off the world will be. Most perceive others, and themselves, through the fog of personal biases. Most have the inability to achieve any semblance of true self-awareness.

 

[Zguy28]

In response to the original question: it means a new life.

Jesus has forgiven my sins, and broken its power to enslave me.
Jesus has purchased my redemption by his righteousness, not mine. In gratitude and love, I respond with an upright life according to God's standards.
I receive the Holy Spirit through faith in what Jesus did, and He makes me a new person inside. A new person lives a new way.

But the bottom line answer is I no longer live for myself, but instead for God. This life is a life of faith with good works, you know... love God and love your neighbor. I still have to live in this world, and responsibly, but not live for the things of this world.

 

[PsyOps]

In light of our recent forumite conversions, I got to thinking about what it actually means to "find Jesus". Does it mean you now have to be nice to people, more charitable and less hostile? Do you stop drinking, cussing, and having premarital sex? What exactly does it mean to embrace God and accept Jesus as your savior?

I'll be honest: a few of the people congratulating their new flock mates are some of the nastiest people on this forum. People who make unprovoked attacks on others and are generally hostile, don't really contribute anything positive to the board. So, seriously, I'm confused as to what it means to be a Christian. This is not meant to start a bunch of crap, although I'm sure (like everything else) it will, but I would seriously like the Christians on here to tell me what it means to them. Is just saying you believe in God and Jesus enough, or do you have to prove it in some way; maybe live by the teachings of Christ? Or is God content with you simply believing in Him?

Again, this is a real question. I understand everyone's answer will be different, and that's cool - faith isn't one size fits all.

I’d like to think most people accept Christ because they have come to a point in their lives that the world isn’t all about them. That serving others is far more gratifying than serving themselves. And that they find this level of service to others in the example that is Jesus. And through this desire to serve others you don’t find you HAVE to stop doing certain things, you are compelled to.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I’d like to think most people accept Christ because they have come to a point in their lives that the world isn’t all about them.

But I don't think that's an accurate characterization of Christians or the way they come to the faith. Indoctrination from early childhood, not acceptance later in life, is the norm. And, Christians do in fact believe that the world, i.e. creation, is all about them. If you're a Christian, you believe the world and the universe were created with you in mind, and that the creator of the universe will grant you eternal life. What could be more self-centered than that?

Regarding the OP, I would have to agree that many Christians on this forum are not great ambassadors for the faith. Reminds me of what Gandhi said..."I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians".

 

[hotcoffee]

Does anything change if the focus shifts from what it is, to how did you get there? I wonder how people got to be "christians". Once you become one, how do you stay a Christian?

Great thing to wonder on. Yes.... something changes and the focus does shift. It's as if there was a hole in you life and once you become a Christian that hole is filled with light and you become whole. It does indeed change your whole outlook on life.

 

[Amused_despair]

I think those who volunteer for groups such as Doctors without Borders are showing what it means to be a true Christian. They are volunteering to go to dangerous places and treat people who are sick and dying. They place their lives in danger, not only from the diseases they treat but from the criminals who operate in those areas. On top of that now they face public scorn, ridicule and risk being ostracized when they return back to their home country. See Mathew 25:31 – 25:46.

 

[SG_Player1974]

Honestly... if you want to know where to find God, you need look no further than PRISON.

Everyone seems to find him there...

 

[PsyOps]

But I don't think that's an accurate characterization of Christians or the way they come to the faith. Indoctrination from early childhood, not acceptance later in life, is the norm. And, Christians do in fact believe that the world, i.e. creation, is all about them. If you're a Christian, you believe the world and the universe were created with you in mind, and that the creator of the universe will grant you eternal life. What could be more self-centered than that?

Regarding the OP, I would have to agree that many Christians on this forum are not great ambassadors for the faith. Reminds me of what Gandhi said..."I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians".

I don’t understand “not acceptance later in life”.

I am a prime example of someone that was NOT indoctrinated. My dad was an avid atheist and my mom did what my dad did. And if you think Christians believe the world is about them, then you just don’t understand the mind of a Christian. I believe the world and the universe were created with US – all of us – in mind. Eternal life is offered to all of us, not just me. I want everyone to have it, not just me. I’m not sure who indoctrinated you with these false notions, but the indoctrination certainly goes both ways. It seems to me you have spent little time with Christians to understand how they really think.

Much to your misconceptions about Christians, they are not perfect people. They have the same pain, pressures, loss, suffering, etc… as anyone else in the world. They get angry, depressed, might cuss, drink, smoke, use drugs, etc… like any other human. We are just as flawed as you are, and any attempt to portray Christians differently is just a false perception.

 

[b23hqb]

Indoctrination. How bogus. I grew up with Christian parents, pretty much going to church regularly, but did not get saved until I was on my own at 23. I have two older sisters that I do not believe are saved. I have four younger siblings that I know without a doubt that they are saved.

No indoctrination. That term comes from those that, really, are afraid and insecure in whatever choice they have made and try to live with.

Christ Jesus, hanging on that cross of execution, was and will always be without parallel. He was the pure exchange for the impure, the innocent giving himself for the guilty, and demonstrates to the world the evil that cannot be understood by those that crucified Him, but evil can only be exposed through the eyes of the Crucified One.

Thank you, Jesus. From a blood-bought sinner that you willingly died for some 19 hundred and fifty years before my existence on earth.

Amen.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I don’t understand “not acceptance later in life”.

I am a prime example of someone that was NOT indoctrinated. My dad was an avid atheist and my mom did what my dad did. And if you think Christians believe the world is about them, then you just don’t understand the mind of a Christian. I believe the world and the universe were created with US – all of us – in mind. Eternal life is offered to all of us, not just me. I want everyone to have it, not just me. I’m not sure who indoctrinated you with these false notions, but the indoctrination certainly goes both ways. It seems to me you have spent little time with Christians to understand how they really think.

Much to your misconceptions about Christians, they are not perfect people. They have the same pain, pressures, loss, suffering, etc… as anyone else in the world. They get angry, depressed, might cuss, drink, smoke, use drugs, etc… like any other human. We are just as flawed as you are, and any attempt to portray Christians differently is just a false perception.

Your supposition regarding my experience with Christianity and Christians is incorrect, but nice try. Personal experience is anecdotal evidence anyway, like your personal experience as a Christian, and is of dubious validity when making a logically based argument.

If you were born in a Muslim country, it's extremely likely you would practice the Islamic faith; or born in the Hindu-dominant regions of India, you would probably have an affinity for the Monkey God, Hanuman. Born into a Mormon family, you are more than likely to become one. Religious indoctrination is the primary driver of peoples' religious affiliation, not conversion. Your personal conversion story is an uncommon one and I think you realize that.

The mentality of Christianity parallels that of the other Abrahamic faiths. Each religion believes their faith to be the one true faith. And each believer is certain they have been 'called' or 'chosen' by the one true God. The egoism of man bolsters this belief in 'exclusivity' and this also fosters a 'chosen-people' mentality. Mono-theistic religions and their beliefs are egocentric. This stems from the fact that they are man-made. The egocentricity of man explains much when examining how religions evolved. So when I say that Christianity is a self-centered religion, it's in the context that I view the majority of religions in this way.

 

[PsyOps]

Your supposition regarding my experience with Christianity and Christians is incorrect, but nice try. Personal experience is anecdotal evidence anyway, like your personal experience as a Christian, and is of dubious validity when making a logically based argument.

If you were born in a Muslim country, it's extremely likely you would practice the Islamic faith; or born in the Hindu-dominant regions of India, you would probably have an affinity for the Monkey God, Hanuman. Born into a Mormon family, you are more than likely to become one. Religious indoctrination is the primary driver of peoples' religious affiliation, not conversion. Your personal conversion story is an uncommon one and I think you realize that.

The mentality of Christianity parallels that of the other Abrahamic faiths. Each religion believes their faith to be the one true faith. And each believer is certain they have been 'called' or 'chosen' by the one true God. The egoism of man bolsters this belief in 'exclusivity' and this also fosters a 'chosen-people' mentality. Mono-theistic religions and their beliefs are egocentric. This stems from the fact that they are man-made. The egocentricity of man explains much when examining how religions evolved. So when I say that Christianity is a self-centered religion, it's in the context that I view the majority of religions in this way.

See, this is what atheist do; they will come into a quite innocent thread of “what makes you believe” and throw their arrogant “Christianity is a self-centered religion” and Christianity “stems from the fact that they are man-made” in order to satisfy their egocentric belief that we’re all a bunch delusional idiots – the entire mass of trillions of us over the millennium.

I realize this this is an open forum, but your comments aren’t even remotely relevant to the OP. How about starting your own “Why believers are stupid” thread?

 

[PJay]

And then comes "how Christian of you!"

Ugh..rerun after rerun...

PC, just wondering....slapped any Islamic peeps lately?

 

[ProximaCentauri]

See, this is what atheist do; they will come into a quite innocent thread of “what makes you believe” and throw their arrogant “Christianity is a self-centered religion” and Christianity “stems from the fact that they are man-made” in order to satisfy their egocentric belief that we’re all a bunch delusional idiots – the entire mass of trillions of us over the millennium.

I realize this this is an open forum, but your comments aren’t even remotely relevant to the OP. How about starting your own “Why believers are stupid” thread?

To be accurate, the original post was titled..."What does being a Christian mean to you?" Including the observation: "I'll be honest: a few of the people congratulating their new flock mates are some of the nastiest people on this forum. People who make unprovoked attacks on others and are generally hostile, don't really contribute anything positive to the board.So, seriously, I'm confused as to what it means to be a Christian."

I simply responded to your supposition that..."most people accept Christ because they have come to a point in their lives that the world isn't all about them." Paraphrasing my response, I argued that the opposite is true. That Christians are typically indoctrinated into the faith from a young age and they believe the world really is all about them, and that egocentricity defines the faith.

Instead of providing sound arguments to support your position, your responses have been anecdotal and ad-hominem.
It seems the only thing you have accomplished is that you're well on your way to validate the original poster's observations.

 

[PsyOps]

To be accurate, the original post was titled..."What does being a Christian mean to you?" Including the observation: "I'll be honest: a few of the people congratulating their new flock mates are some of the nastiest people on this forum. People who make unprovoked attacks on others and are generally hostile, don't really contribute anything positive to the board.So, seriously, I'm confused as to what it means to be a Christian."

I simply responded to your supposition that..."most people accept Christ because they have come to a point in their lives that the world isn't all about them." Paraphrasing my response, I argued that the opposite is true. That Christians are typically indoctrinated into the faith from a young age and they believe the world really is all about them, and that egocentricity defines the faith.

Instead of providing sound arguments to support your position, your responses have been anecdotal and ad-hominem.
It seems the only thing you have accomplished is that you're well on your way to validate the original poster's observations.

Well, I’ll stand by my point that MOST come to Christ because they believe the world doesn’t revolve around them. I am not stating that some don’t get it. There are still going to be some claiming to be Christian (and they very well may be; it’s not for me to decide) and exhibit some very ugly attitudes. And I think it’s fair to call their faith into question. These people do not represent the Christian faith as a whole. Having been a Christian for most of my life, and having been all over the world, I am comfortable stating that MOST Christians are Christians because they want to serve others and got rid of their selfish ways.

If you read the New Testament Jesus was quite critical of those that distorted their faith. He used some very sharp language towards them; much considered to be profane in those days. So profane that he was accused of blasphemy; and ultimately put to death. Even when He knew what His ultimate demise would be, this did not stop Him from sharply reminding people what the Christian faith is about. And He especially did not hold back in exposing and singling out the Sanhedrin and leaders of their synagogues. So Jesus could get pretty ugly, and I have no doubt that many people viewed Jesus in the same manner as Vrai is viewing some of the co-called Christians on this board. Don’t interpret this as condoning bad behavior. I think the discussions in these forums can bring out the worst in people that are otherwise very kind and caring people. Back in the day, before I met Vrai, I thought she was crass and hateful. I had a really negative attitude about her; until I met her. I see how caring and giving she is and know she isn’t anything like what I thought.

So people are not always what they appear in these mostly-anonymous forums.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

Well, I’ll stand by my point that MOST come to Christ because they believe the world doesn’t revolve around them. I am not stating that some don’t get it. There are still going to be some claiming to be Christian (and they very well may be; it’s not for me to decide) and exhibit some very ugly attitudes. And I think it’s fair to call their faith into question. These people do not represent the Christian faith as a whole. Having been a Christian for most of my life, and having been all over the world, I am comfortable stating that MOST Christians are Christians because they want to serve others and got rid of their selfish ways.

If you read the New Testament Jesus was quite critical of those that distorted their faith. He used some very sharp language towards them; much considered to be profane in those days. So profane that he was accused of blasphemy; and ultimately put to death. Even when He knew what His ultimate demise would be, this did not stop Him from sharply reminding people what the Christian faith is about. And He especially did not hold back in exposing and singling out the Sanhedrin and leaders of their synagogues. So Jesus could get pretty ugly, and I have no doubt that many people viewed Jesus in the same manner as Vrai is viewing some of the co-called Christians on this board. Don’t interpret this as condoning bad behavior. I think the discussions in these forums can bring out the worst in people that are otherwise very kind and caring people. Back in the day, before I met Vrai, I thought she was crass and hateful. I had a really negative attitude about her; until I met her. I see how caring and giving she is and know she isn’t anything like what I thought.

So people are not always what they appear in these mostly-anonymous forums.

I suspect vraiblonde's ulterior motive was to trigger some self-examination by the Christian regulars posting in this forum. I agree with her comment, and would also add that intolerance, bigotry, and ignorance are very evident as well. Let's hope these people are better human beings than their on-line personas would suggest.

Not unexpectedly, we remain at an impasse with our respective views. I maintain that it's impossible to think objectively about one's own faith. But I do agree that on an individual basis, religious people can be some of the nicest you'd ever want to meet, and I don't contest there are many well intentioned people of faith.

As an aside, I'm having dinner with a Catholic priest next week. This is not unusual; I've had dinner with numerous priests and pastors in my lifetime. Some remain close friends.

 

[Dondi]

Well, I’ll stand by my point that MOST come to Christ because they believe the world doesn’t revolve around them.

I guarantee ya that a majority of Christians come to Christ because they don't want to fry in hell. That's called self-preservation.

 

[PsyOps]

I guarantee ya that a majority of Christians come to Christ because they don't want to fry in hell. That's called self-preservation.

Actually most come to Christ because they have run into a major crisis in their lives: cancer, put in jail, addiction, etc… These situations cause a person to humble themselves to a higher authority; that up to that point, all they have been doing in their lives was about them; then life suddenly smacks them down and they require help from a place they know they won’t get from any person. I think going to hell is a secondary thought.

 

[mamatutu]

Actually most come to Christ because they have run into a major crisis in their lives: cancer, put in jail, addiction, etc… These situations cause a person to humble themselves to a higher authority; that up to that point, all they have been doing in their lives was about them; then life suddenly smacks them down and they require help from a place they know they won’t get from any person. I think going to hell is a secondary thought.

So, is that how you found Christ? All of the above, and all?

 

[hotcoffee]

In light of our recent forumite conversions, I got to thinking about what it actually means to "find Jesus".

My mother use to scowl when she said that someone "found Jesus".

In the book Gone With The Wind, the family was required to go into the sitting room and read the Bible every day. My mother grew up in that kind of home. She resented it. My Grandmother was a lay minister. They lived up in the holler.... when the preacher from town couldn't get to the church building because of high water or snow, my Grandmother would preach and teach. She has a wing named after her in that little church up there in Front Royal.

My mother said that "growing up, the Bible was hammered into her". My Mother was Bible smart and Christ stupid.

Does it mean you now have to be nice to people, more charitable and less hostile? Do you stop drinking, cussing, and having premarital sex? What exactly does it mean to embrace God and accept Jesus as your savior?

No. It doesn't mean you have to be nice, charitable, and less hostile to be a Christian. It doesn't mean that you have to quit drinking, cussing, and having premarital sex. You don't become instantly perfect. You are still human. People are just ignorant.

If we had to be perfect to "find Jesus".... Jesus would still be lost to us. There are a whole lot of people in this world that are going to go to church as soon as they quit drinking, drugging, whoring, and when they can be charitable, nice, and they can stop hating people. They are never going to make it. It just can't be done..... You need to accept Jesus to have a prayer.

I'll be honest: a few of the people congratulating their new flock mates are some of the nastiest people on this forum. People who make unprovoked attacks on others and are generally hostile, don't really contribute anything positive to the board. So, seriously, I'm confused as to what it means to be a Christian. This is not meant to start a bunch of crap, although I'm sure (like everything else) it will, but I would seriously like the Christians on here to tell me what it means to them.

I don't know how many times I've had to ask Jesus to forgive me for things I just can't seem to do on my own. I've had days when I posted a Bible Verse in the morning.... and then that very afternoon I cussed someone and gave them the finger for cutting me off.

Accepting Jesus into your life is a real work in progress. The human side just keeps getting out.

Is just saying you believe in God and Jesus enough, or do you have to prove it in some way; maybe live by the teachings of Christ? Or is God content with you simply believing in Him?

Again, this is a real question. I understand everyone's answer will be different, and that's cool - faith isn't one size fits all.

We are supposed to strive to be Christ-like once we have accepted Jesus into our lives. That's the key.

IMHO.... When you first accept Christ.... there's this warm feeling that comes over you. It's an actual physical event. The spine actually tingles. You feel like the "something is missing" feeling is a thing of the past. You feel warm and glowing... and this lasts for a while.... it's really like you are a lamp and people will see there is something different about you.

In the book they use in AA, people who knew Bill W were amazed when they saw the difference in him. It's like that.

In time.... just like a fire in a fireplace.... the fire fades.... it needs to be nourished.... and humans get lazy. They don't read the Bible... they don't pray.... they go to church and they fall asleep.... some even move to the front row to keep from falling asleep...

Jesus describes this.

Matthew 12:43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”​

The only way to keep that original fire.... that allows you to be more Christ-like... is prayer. The prayer I use is simple. "God, what is wrong with me? Please forgive me for being such a sorry Christian. Help me Lord. I can't do this without you."

That warm feeling will return.... don't forget the next prayer "Thank you Lord".

I hope that answers your question.... "Finding Jesus" isn't really being a Christian..... It's just the beginning.... you have to work at being a Christian [being Christ-like] every day.... just like Bill W had to work at staying sober every day.

And some days... I really suck at it....

 

[Dondi]

Actually most come to Christ because they have run into a major crisis in their lives: cancer, put in jail, addiction, etc… These situations cause a person to humble themselves to a higher authority; that up to that point, all they have been doing in their lives was about them; then life suddenly smacks them down and they require help from a place they know they won’t get from any person. I think going to hell is a secondary thought.

I would be interested in what statistics you can come up with to fortify your assertion.

All of the gospel presentations I've seen are some variant of the "Roman Road", of which one of the primary points is that because of our sins we are destined to hell. That is clear from scripture. I mean, that is what one is being "saved" from in the conventional sense of the word. It is what most Christians are raised on. My first encounter with Christ involved seeing myself in that danger and needing the Savior, whereby I acted upon it.

I'm not saying that what you described cannot lead a person to Christ, but I don't think that is how most Christians come to Christ. The fundamental problem is sin. And until one recognizes and acknowledges that sin, the judgement of God will remain. The whole reason for the Cros is that the price Christ paid for that sin will save one from hell.