What is Islam?

abdulhaqq

New Member
Mikeinsmd said:
I told you I have no desire to debate your effed up religion. I know I what I am, do you?

Why don't you be a good lil terrorist and answer Vrai's question now. :tap:

Dear Mikeinsmd

If you want to be irrational and bigoted and medieval and against reason and freedom, then go ahead and be my guest buddy. :razz:

I'm not a terrorist just because I'm Muslim. I've condemned terrorism openly and brazenly in various articles across the country, including the Capital and the Baltimore Sun.

Your bigoted remarks are a reflection of yourself, not me buddy. I pray that God opens your heart and mind to a more reasonable assessment of Muslims.

With Peace,
Abdulhaqq

PS: As a law student, I would advise you against making general statements against killing people, even if in jest. You could be prosecuted for the crime of conspirary if you took a substantial step towards the accomplishment of this crime. A substantial step could be many things, such as going to Walmart and looking at guns.
 
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vraiblonde

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abdulhaqq said:
Terrorism is barbaric, whether it is done by Palestinians, Iranians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, or Chechens. It is not about race, it is about the act.
But, again, there's a handy little "out", isn't there?

I understand the Islamic extremists completely and they make total sense. It's the same mindset that compels Jehovah's Witnesses to come knock at my door - they want to convert the nonbelivers to what they consider the "true" religion.

Christian fundies think you are condemned to death if you don't believe in Jesus and live by the Bible. Muslim fundies believe the same thing, they just want to push it along a bit.
 

Mikeinsmd

New Member
abdulhaqq said:
Dear Mikeinsmd

If you want to be irrational and bigoted and medieval and against reason and freedom, then go ahead and be my guest buddy. :razz:

I'm not a terrorist just because I'm Muslim. I've condemned terrorism openly and brazenly in various articles across the country, including the Capital and the Baltimore Sun.

Your bigoted remarks are a reflection of yourself, not me buddy. I pray that God opens your heart and mind to a more reasonable assessment of Muslims.

With Peace,
Abdulhaqq
You pray to who????? :killingme Don't bother, it won't happen. :bubble:
 

vraiblonde

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abdulhaqq said:
People come to America because its a land of freedom and opportunity. I don't see a problem with people migrating here because of that.
Nor do I. It's what the US is all about - "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

My dream is for those huddled masses to not have to come here because their own country will be a place they can live in peace and prosperity. I think the war in Iraq is a good start.
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
vraiblonde said:
But, again, there's a handy little "out", isn't there?

I understand the Islamic extremists completely and they make total sense. It's the same mindset that compels Jehovah's Witnesses to come knock at my door - they want to convert the nonbelivers to what they consider the "true" religion.

Christian fundies think you are condemned to death if you don't believe in Jesus and live by the Bible. Muslim fundies believe the same thing, they just want to push it along a bit.

This is true. However, Muslim fundamentalists don't represent all Muslims. Muslim fundamentalism is, ironically, a modern movement that its foundations traced to the Muslim Brotherhood which started in Egypt and Wahhabism which started in Saudi Arabia.

The Saudi government was put into power and payrolled by the British to fight against the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Our government's assistance in maximizing Saudi Arabia's oil economy is one of the reason why it has spread all over the world.

However, not all Wahhabis are fundamentalists and not all are terrorists. It was when Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood fused that the terrorism was born. The reason why Wahhabism and the Muslim Brotherhood fused is because the Egyptian government, which was secular, began heavily prosecuting them.

The comments made by bigots in this thread are just being reguritated over and over again like a broken record. Every claim that they've made has been responded to.

Firstly, Islam itself condemnds terrorism, as is evident in one of the original posts I've made citing direct resources.

Secondly, Muslims are working their hardest in prosecuting the war on terrorism on all of its fronts. To claim that all Muslims are terrorists undermines the efforts of these brave individuals and supports the terrorists. If you truly want to defeat terrorism, then support those who fight it, especially if they are Muslim by not making asinine comments.

Thirdly, Muslim leaders and scholars are working hard on condemning terrorism. I have cited to an ample amount of texts which condemn terrorism in all of its forms. This includes a recent document that was signed by thirty prominent Muslim scholars from all over the world.

http://www.islamicamagazine.com/online-analysis/open-letter-to-his-holiness-pope-benedict-xvi.html

With Peace,
AbdulHaqq
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Mikeinsmd said:
You pray to who????? :killingme Don't bother, it won't happen. :bubble:

I pray to the God of Adam, the God of Noah, the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Jesus, and and the God of Muhammad (peace be upon them all).
 

forever jewel

Green Eyed Lady
Why is abdulhaqq is being criticized for his religious beliefs? Its a RELIGION forum! I'm glad he brought up Islam. I, myself, am not educated in their beliefs and its quite interesting reading his posts and learn a few of the basics. I appreciate the fact that our country was founded upon freedom of speech and that everyone can and will say what they want on this board, but give him a break. He is allowed to wave the stars and stripes and practice Islam. He's American, that's what are country is all about!

JMO
 

Pete

Repete
abdulhaqq said:
Dear Pete,

Please refer to the third post which clearly and unequivocally condemned terrorism and suicide bombing and actually provided a list of sources from various Islamic texts such as the Qur'an and also contained a plethora of fatwas from Muslim jurists who have condemned terrorism.

Terrorism is barbaric, whether it is done by Palestinians, Iranians, Iraqis, Pakistanis, or Chechens. It is not about race, it is about the act.

As I stated above, the verse that I quoted from the Qur'an has taken two interpretations for 'corruption'. There are only two exceptions to the prohibition of taking of life: the first is in criminal acts; therefore Islam sanctions capital punishment against people who are causing corruption. As I stated above, this verse includes terrorists. Therefore, the punishment for terrorism in Islam is the death penalty Would you disagree with this or do you agree with this? I don't see what you aren't getting about this interpretation. The second exception to the prohibition of taking a life is with regards to just war. Islam permits warfare under certain conditions but, just like the Geneva Convention, places prohibition on attacking unarmed civilians and the destruction of property. Thus, the verse clearly condemns terrorism. I don't see why you're having such a hard time accepting the literal interpretation of a verse.

Also, I literally condemned terrorism in the third post. Either you haven't read it or are just choosing to ignore it. Either way, it reflects badly on your powers of observation and cognition.

With Peace,
Abdulhaqq

First, I am totally secure in my powers of observation and cognition so you can just save your smug sanctimonious condemnation thereof.

What I am saying is I can write a 1,000,000 page book outlining how to live life but if I allow, participate, and applaud the violation of it it is nothing more than a 1,000,000 page waste of paper.

When is the last Islamic country who has captured and executed a terrorist for atrocities against the West or Jews totally of their own volition?

For something that is prohibited Muslims seem to embrace it and commit it wholesale without credible condemnation.

Why haven't the Imams in Iran and the Saudi Royal family created a force to stamp out the Taliban, Hamas and Hezbolah?
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
vraiblonde said:
Nor do I. It's what the US is all about - "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore, Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

My dream is for those huddled masses to not have to come here because their own country will be a place they can live in peace and prosperity. I think the war in Iraq is a good start.

Dear Vraiblonde

I agree with your assesment. Their is something about America which is beautiful and inspiring. Its a beacon for the whole world to see and to inspire to imitate. Even if the whole world will become like America, it won't ever be as good.

I also agree with your assesment on the war on Iraq. I think we need to stay the course and finish the job while minimizing harm to our troops. If we don't finish what we've started there, then Iraq will end up becoming like Afghanistan and Iraq might see the rise of its own "Taliban" and all of the sacrifices our troops have made will be in vain.

With Peace,
Abdulhaqq
 

vraiblonde

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abdulhaqq said:
However, Muslim fundamentalists don't represent all Muslims.
I'm sure they don't, anymore than Fred Phelps represents all Christians. But Muslim fundies pose a very real threat to Americans, Israelis and just about anyone else who doesn't subscribe to their beliefs.

And Christians actively condemn Fred Phelps every chance they get. You can see numerous threads on here to prove it, or you can just look at Phelps' news coverage. I don't see that same outcry from your average Muslim.

Even you came on here to defend your religion, not condemn those who have hijacked it.
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Pete said:
First, I am totally secure in my powers of observation and cognition so you can just save your smug sanctimonious condemnation thereof.

What I am saying is I can write a 1,000,000 page book outlining how to live life but if I allow, participate, and applaud the violation of it it is nothing more than a 1,000,000 page waste of paper.

When is the last Islamic country who has captured and executed a terrorist for atrocities against the West or Jews totally of their own volition?

For something that is prohibited Muslims seem to embrace it and commit it wholesale without credible condemnation.

Why haven't the Imams in Iran and the Saudi Royal family created a force to stamp out the Taliban, Hamas and Hezbolah?

Dear Pete,

If you want me to treat you like an adult, then behave like one. If you want to look like a fool and throw temper tantrums just because someone expresses a belief or idea different from what you were raised with, then be my guest. However, don't expect to be respected as a rational autonomous agent when you do so. If you want me to respect you as a person, then you need to respect me as a person. You don't have to agree with what I'm saying, but you should agree that I have the right to say it since these rights are preserved by the Constitution. Even though what you are espousing is essentially hate speech, my dear friend, I would fight to the death to preserve your right to say it. At this point, I would like to confess that I'm a member of the American Civil Liberties Union. (please don't kill me!). I love freedom probably more than most people on this forum would be comfortable with swallowing.

I'm not sure how up to date you are on the headlines, but different Muslim countries have contributed. If you recall back in the day, Iran offered to provide assistance to Americans in the war on Terrorism. In Pakistan, top leading Al Qaeda officials were captured through the assistance of Pakistani military intelligence and army officials. In Pakistan, the war on terrorism is a low-level civil war. Everyday, Pakistani soldiers come home in body bags as they fight against people who support terrorism. In Saudi Arabia and Yemen, there were several shoot outs where terrorists were killed. Syria has been working along with the US and Canada.

All of those guys at Guantanamo Bay were captured with the assistance of Muslim leaders and countries. I don't buy your argument that Muslim governments aren't doing enough. They are trying their hardest and to say that they haven't done anything is a disservice to those who have fought and died to prosecute terrorists all over the world. We shouldn't make a distinction between such brave soldiers whether they are Muslim or non-Muslim, American or Arab or Pakistani. People all over the world are combatting the evil of terrorism. We need to support them. It undermines their credibility when you say that they haven't done anything and this is something that terrorists feed on.

As I stated repeatedly, there are hundreds of documents on the internet that clearly show the sheer size of Muslim leaders and scholars who have condemned terrorism and have taken active steps in prosecuting it.

If you like, we can create an entirely separate thread that highlights the efforts of such indivduals. Here is an example of one such person:

[URL='Devout Muslim' informer aided in Toronto conspiracy arrests]Devout Muslim Informer Aided in Toronto Terror Arrests[/URL]

Just because its covert and we don't hear about it doesn't mean that no Muslims are doing anything to combat terrorism.

I honestly didn't expect this much hostility to the Muslim faith on these forums.

With Peace
Abdulhaqq
 

Mikeinsmd

New Member
Pete said:
First, I am totally secure in my powers of observation and cognition so you can just save your smug sanctimonious condemnation thereof.

What I am saying is I can write a 1,000,000 page book outlining how to live life but if I allow, participate, and applaud the violation of it it is nothing more than a 1,000,000 page waste of paper.

When is the last Islamic country who has captured and executed a terrorist for atrocities against the West or Jews totally of their own volition?

For something that is prohibited Muslims seem to embrace it and commit it wholesale without credible condemnation.

Why haven't the Imams in Iran and the Saudi Royal family created a force to stamp out the Taliban, Hamas and Hezbolah?
And interfere with their attempts to procure the nuclear weapons that would be used to ensure the continued existance of their "peaceful" religion??? Surely you jest!! :drama:
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
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abdulhaqq said:
I think we need to stay the course and finish the job while minimizing harm to our troops. If we don't finish what we've started there, then Iraq will end up becoming like Afghanistan and Iraq might see the rise of its own "Taliban" and all of the sacrifices our troops have made will be in vain.
I completely agree with this and it's heartening to hear a Muslim say so. We don't get a lot of that from the mainstream media in this country.
 

vraiblonde

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abdulhaqq said:
I honestly didn't expect this much hostility to the Muslim faith on these forums.
Really? Considering the news coverage we're fed on a daily basis? You're an American and I assume you watch CNN, Fox, ABC, etc. Certainly you've seen that the vast majority of the stories portray Muslims in an unflattering light.
 

Agee

Well-Known Member
abdulhaqq said:
. Their is something about America which is beautiful and inspiring.

Its a beacon for the whole world to see and to inspire to imitate. Even if the whole world will become like America, it won't ever be as good.

Unfortuately, "our beacon", while full of promising ideals, is not something the whole world needs to imitate. Many parts of the world need to focus on growing the core cultures of their people and eliminate the heathens that threaten to tear these cultures down...

just my 2 cents
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
vraiblonde said:
I'm sure they don't, anymore than Fred Phelps represents all Christians. But Muslim fundies pose a very real threat to Americans, Israelis and just about anyone else who doesn't subscribe to their beliefs.

And Christians actively condemn Fred Phelps every chance they get. You can see numerous threads on here to prove it, or you can just look at Phelps' news coverage. I don't see that same outcry from your average Muslim.

Even you came on here to defend your religion, not condemn those who have hijacked it.

Dear vraiblonde

I agree that Muslims pose a real threat to Americans and Israelis, but they also pose a greater threat to Muslims as well. If you look at Iraq, the number of people who have died in sectarian fighting is over 600,000! Iraq is the frontline between mainstream Islam and Muslim terrorists. Again, I'd like to make a distinction between Muslim fundamentalists and terrorists. There are peaceful Muslim fundamentalists that are just like the amish. They want to be left alone in their own insular communities and practice their faith in peace. These people are a minority. However, within this fringe is another fringe who want to impose their warped view of the Islamic faith on other Muslims. These people are terrorists. Its a subtle distinction.

I'm surprised you aren't aware of how many Muslims all accross the world have been condemning and prosecuting terrorism. As I stated above, their was a recent document that was written as a response to the Pope's comments regarding Islam. This document was a peaceful intellectual disagreement with His Holiness the Pope and was signed by 30 leading Muslim scholars from all over the world including America, Canada, Britain, Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan, India, etc. Within the same document, these scholars had an unequivocal condemnation of terrorism and the unfortunate killing of the nun in Somalia. How much press coverage did it get? Zero. Why didn't any media outlets report it? I have no idea.

Just because you havent' seen Muslims condemn terrorism doesn't mean that they don't condemn it. I personally wrote articles in several newspapers including the Capital, the Baltimore Sun, and my college newspaper with regards to terrorism. Either most people chose to ignore it or it didn't get that much coverage.

In the original few posts, I quoted several responses by scholars who condemned terrorists. These aren't minor figures, but major figures within the Muslim world.

With Peace,

Abdulhaqq
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
Mikeinsmd said:
And interfere with their attempts to procure the nuclear weapons that would be used to ensure the continued existance of their "peaceful" religion??? Surely you jest!! :drama:

Dear Mikeinsmd

Actually, the use of nuclear weapons is prohibited in Islam.

Even the Shi'is in Iran historically have prohibited its use . . . until recently. I'm not sure what the ruling by Iraqi Shi'i scholars is. Most Sunni scholars also condemn the use of nuclear weapons.

With Peace
Abdulhaqq
 

abdulhaqq

New Member
vraiblonde said:
Really? Considering the news coverage we're fed on a daily basis? You're an American and I assume you watch CNN, Fox, ABC, etc. Certainly you've seen that the vast majority of the stories portray Muslims in an unflattering light.

Dear Vraiblonde

Thats true. However, when Muslims do something positive, such as winning the noble peace prize it doesn't get much coverage for some reason.

When Muslims get shot or killed because of hate crimes, that also doesn't get media coverage. I don't see enough of my fellow Americans condemning this sort of behavior. Comments made in this forum such as "I want to kill all of you" are a chilling reminder that we might have some work to do of our own in ensuring peace prevails.

Why does the media not report this sort of content? I dont think its because of a bias. I think it has more to do with 'supply and demand'. Violence, like sex, sells. People wanna hear gory stories as opposed to uplifting and motivating ones.

With Peace,
Abdulhaqq
 
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