I was licking my chops, hoping you'd say something like that.
THE POOR DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!!
Ha Ha!!!
THE POOR DON'T PAY TAXES!!!!!
Ha Ha!!!
Bruz,
Clearly, our experiences are different. I grew up in a lower-middle-class household and I can tell you, that despite my parents' best financial managing, it's tough when tax day rolls around and you owe all your state tax at once. Some of my friends were definitely well within the "poor" category, and paid their taxes (the Republican fantasy of the "lucky ducky" poor who pay no taxes and get loads of wonderful social services in return never ceases to amuse me) on tax day if they could. Sure, poor folks might pay only a couple of hundred dollars in taxes (or whatever the then-year dollar equivalent then was), but when you're poor, a couple hundred dollars can be a huge amount.
Call it BS if that makes you happy. But the truth of the world is considerably different than what you believe.
Clearly, our experiences are different. I grew up in a lower-middle-class household and I can tell you, that despite my parents' best financial managing, it's tough when tax day rolls around and you owe all your state tax at once. Some of my friends were definitely well within the "poor" category, and paid their taxes (the Republican fantasy of the "lucky ducky" poor who pay no taxes and get loads of wonderful social services in return never ceases to amuse me) on tax day if they could. Sure, poor folks might pay only a couple of hundred dollars in taxes (or whatever the then-year dollar equivalent then was), but when you're poor, a couple hundred dollars can be a huge amount.
Call it BS if that makes you happy. But the truth of the world is considerably different than what you believe.
Uh, hate to break it to you but EVERYBODY pays taxes. Sales tax, social security tax, medicare tax.
Nearly everybody pays state and federal tax. Sure, the absolute most destitute subsisting on crumbs no indoor plumbing living in a trailer poor pay nothing, but poor is a spectrum. And there are people who are poor who pay, albeit a little, state and federal taxes. If I recall, making up to $14k per year puts you in the 10% bracket. That's poor, and if you haven't any children or mortgage payments, you're paying 10% of your pitiful income to the fed. And something less to the state.
Not every poor person is the evil "welfare queen" stereotype with twenty kids and a huge amount of deductions. Believe it or not, there are folks who are (a) poor and (b) pay some money in state and federal income taxes. The guy that empties my office trash can, for example, springs to mind.
Nearly everybody pays state and federal tax. Sure, the absolute most destitute subsisting on crumbs no indoor plumbing living in a trailer poor pay nothing, but poor is a spectrum. And there are people who are poor who pay, albeit a little, state and federal taxes. If I recall, making up to $14k per year puts you in the 10% bracket. That's poor, and if you haven't any children or mortgage payments, you're paying 10% of your pitiful income to the fed. And something less to the state.
Not every poor person is the evil "welfare queen" stereotype with twenty kids and a huge amount of deductions. Believe it or not, there are folks who are (a) poor and (b) pay some money in state and federal income taxes. The guy that empties my office trash can, for example, springs to mind.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
I paid taxes when I earned minimum wage working through college, and I paid taxes when I was earning $15,000 in my first real job. Not dirt-poor, but one catastrophe and I would have been in real financial trouble. For a while, I paid just as much or more in FICA as I did in federal income taxes.
In 1991 or 1992, George H.W. Bush and Congress passed a tax relief act that amounted to delayed withholding. My tax withheld from my paycheck went down by about $5 per week. Well, when I filled out my 1040 the following spring, I owed about $150. I was royally
So, Doc, are you a Dem, Repub or neither - and why?
Growing up under Reagan, then spending four years under Bush Sr. watching Senate Democrats filibuster or ignore every significant piece of economic legislation he sent them which, as far as I'm concerned, means they deliberately torpedoed the US economy so they could blame Bush and win an election. And because of that, we got Clinton. 
I'll never forgive the Democratic Party for that....
which, as far as I'm concerned, means they deliberately torpedoed the US economy so they could blame Bush and win an election. And because of that, we got Clinton. I'll never forgive the Democratic Party for that....
B
Bruzilla
Guest
Gee Doc, it's always great to hear from another raised in a lower-middle class family. 
I hate to get into a debate over who's life story is sadder, but I'll also identify myself as a former service member who never made more than about 17k the whole time I was in, I think I have a pretty good perspective of what it's like to barely get by. I never paid any state taxes until I was about half-way through my ten years in the Navy, so I guess I would have been making about 14k or so, and what I paid was minimal.
But I guess I still can't shed a tear for your poor, uneducated, victims of Reagan's unfeeling policies. Assuming that everyone in CA paid taxes, there wasn't any difference in the tax rates whether they paid all at once or they had the money withdrawn each pay day was there? So what we're really talking about here is a lack of personal responsibility on the part of some tax payers. Self-employed business owners all over this country have to do the same thing, and they somehow manage to meet thier tax bill.
I could see a problem if the state suddenly changed their collection policy or tax rate, and people got stuck with a tax bill that was higher than expected, but this didn't seem to be the case out there. Seems to me that there were just a lot of foolish people out in CA who didn't bother to save their ducketts each month and got mad when they had to pay a big bill that they knew was coming. Gee... foolish people in CA... who would have ever thought.
I hate to get into a debate over who's life story is sadder, but I'll also identify myself as a former service member who never made more than about 17k the whole time I was in, I think I have a pretty good perspective of what it's like to barely get by. I never paid any state taxes until I was about half-way through my ten years in the Navy, so I guess I would have been making about 14k or so, and what I paid was minimal. But I guess I still can't shed a tear for your poor, uneducated, victims of Reagan's unfeeling policies. Assuming that everyone in CA paid taxes, there wasn't any difference in the tax rates whether they paid all at once or they had the money withdrawn each pay day was there? So what we're really talking about here is a lack of personal responsibility on the part of some tax payers. Self-employed business owners all over this country have to do the same thing, and they somehow manage to meet thier tax bill.
I could see a problem if the state suddenly changed their collection policy or tax rate, and people got stuck with a tax bill that was higher than expected, but this didn't seem to be the case out there. Seems to me that there were just a lot of foolish people out in CA who didn't bother to save their ducketts each month and got mad when they had to pay a big bill that they knew was coming. Gee... foolish people in CA... who would have ever thought.
ceo_pte
New Member
I went through college not really caring about anything, except for me. I think I was a typical guy in college. Girls, booz and football was all that entered my mind. I was never registered until I got out of college and started learning more about the foundations of our country and free enterprise. Then it became clear which party I should support, if I enjoyed the freedoms that I hold dear.
The presidental race between Bush and Gore thoroughly turned me agains the democratic party. I just say thank God Bush won and I'm glad he will be re-elected. He's not perfect, but he has a great heart and will do what's best for this counrty. People like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Bill/Hillary Clinton turn my stomach and I would never want to be affiliated with a party that they support.
Wanna talk about the way people(former presidents) use the system, lets talk about how bill/hillary have used the system. That's a mighty nice office Bill has in NY City.. wonder who picks-up that bill.
The presidental race between Bush and Gore thoroughly turned me agains the democratic party. I just say thank God Bush won and I'm glad he will be re-elected. He's not perfect, but he has a great heart and will do what's best for this counrty. People like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Bill/Hillary Clinton turn my stomach and I would never want to be affiliated with a party that they support.
Wanna talk about the way people(former presidents) use the system, lets talk about how bill/hillary have used the system. That's a mighty nice office Bill has in NY City.. wonder who picks-up that bill.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Strange, because that race and the Florida fiasco turned me even more against party politics. Both sides acted like spoiled children. After a week or so, I wanted to banish Bush and Gore and all their toadies to a island somewhere, just so they wouldn't be on the news hurling insults at each other.
ceo_pte
New Member
yeah I don't like all the crap that goes on and I know it probably happens on both sides of the ball. My father was part of an re-election campaign in SC and was actually asked by a Democratic lady who holds a position in SC how much money they were willing to give her (under the table/off the books/in her pocket) to have her back his candidate. That is just crap!
I could have seen it one sided in the Florida fiasco, but I remember the Democratic party being the ones who caused the big problems there. They were the reason for the numerous re-counts, the ones complaining about the 'butterfly' ballots, etc.... At the time I lived with a Diehard DEM and I got sick of hearing her crap.
That is completely unfair. Bush and crew DID NOT hurl insults at a single Democrat during that fiasco. The Gore camp was on, slandering everyone they could get their hands on, but I distinctly remember the non-pundit Republicans staying away from personal attacks and commenting only on the subject at hand.
and I don't remember Gore spouting off, his camp, yes, but not Gore.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
I was thinking not so much the candidates, but their handlers and the media pundits. After a week, there was so much angry rhetoric that the talking heads and the people actually working on the campaigns seemed like one and the same. Over and over from both sides I heard wild accusations of unethical and illegal behavior, and completely contradictory interpretations of the election laws. I wanted to scream at the TV, "Goddammit, everyone just shut up already!"
ceo_pte
New Member
ceo_pte
New Member
I personally can't stand the media and I agree with you there. These idiots focus on job security and if there were no bad news to report they would be out of business. So they spend all day searching for crap to put on the news at night and most Ameircans spend their evening watching the crap. Ok, I'm done now...
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Here's an example: In Florida, the Democrats accused the Republicans of intimidating minority voters. The Republicans accused the Democrats of paying minority voters to vote. Whether or not there was any truth to those accuations is not the point. The point is that both sides looked like they would say anything to win the election. In that situation, I had absolutely no confidence that either party was telling the truth.
Danzig
Well-Known Member
What made me the democrat I am today, looking back it was a hot summer day in 1979 and I was strolling thru DC when I ran into President Carter. The President, Amy and I went into the oval office and discussed nuclear proliferation. I was 11 years old, I remember like it was yesterday.
But it IS the point. If some guy complains about police brutality, and the cops issue a statement saying that it never happened, do you just consider them both at fault and forget it? NO! You try to find the truth.
The Dems can accuse the Reps of intimidating voters all they want but there was never a shred of evidence that it, in fact, happened. They trotted out a few black people to say that the polls were closed by the time they got there and THAT'S what "disenfranchised" them, not a KKK presence. There was even one black guy that got on and said the number of white people at the polls "intimidated" him so he didn't vote.
However, there were dozens of people who came forward and said they were paid for their Dem vote. Dem activist groups even admitted they trolled the slums and gave people cigarettes and rides to the polling place, bought them lunch, slipped 'em a ten, etc. The activists tried to say that they were only "giving to the homeless" like they always do. But the fact remains that the reason they were there in the first place was to drum up votes for the Dems.
Truth is important.