What Side of The Fence Are You On?

[SamSpade]

i laughed at the hypocrisy of that list and what it left off.

How about:
if a conservative doesnt like abortion, he tries to have all abortions banned. A liberal who doesn't like abortion just doesn't get one.
if a conservative doesn't like gay marriage they try to enact a law that makes them illegal. If a liberal doens't like gay marriage they don't have one.
the list goes on and on, but you get the idea. There are people on both sides of the ailse that want to force their opinions on everyone. THey just differ on what those opinions are.

Most conservatives I know don't care about gay marriage. Those who do generally accept it, but don't want it forced on their church. There are others, but if that IS what you think, your perspective of conservatives must not be made on actual interaction with them face to face.

Abortion - well the entire abortion issue to conservatives is - if you don't think children should be murdered and tortured to death, you think it should be stopped.
Because THAT is the issue as THEY see it. They see it as murder. It's not like having fluoridated water or prohibiting smoking in bars. It's not if they "like" or "don't like" abortion, the way some people like or don't like the Dallas Cowboys. Liberals don't see it that way and have re-framed the issue as choosing or not choosing a medical procedure and have tried to make it as though conservatives are against skin grafts or blood transfusions.

Surprisingly over the past generation, most issues that correspond with "liberty" have migrated to the conservative side - with just a few exceptions as you've noted, because they're seen as moral issues that may not be ceded.

 

[GURPS]

- with just a few exceptions as you've noted, because they're seen as moral issues that may not be ceded.

yep, but since they are 'legal' they are not going away anytime soon, if ever

 

[Midnightrider]

Most conservatives I know don't care about gay marriage. Those who do generally accept it, but don't want it forced on their church. There are others, but if that IS what you think, your perspective of conservatives must not be made on actual interaction with them face to face.

Abortion - well the entire abortion issue to conservatives is - if you don't think children should be murdered and tortured to death, you think it should be stopped.
Because THAT is the issue as THEY see it. They see it as murder. It's not like having fluoridated water or prohibiting smoking in bars. It's not if they "like" or "don't like" abortion, the way some people like or don't like the Dallas Cowboys. Liberals don't see it that way and have re-framed the issue as choosing or not choosing a medical procedure and have tried to make it as though conservatives are against skin grafts or blood transfusions.

Surprisingly over the past generation, most issues that correspond with "liberty" have migrated to the conservative side - with just a few exceptions as you've noted, because they're seen as moral issues that may not be ceded.

i would argue the same could be said for most if not all the items on the intial list. I have never had anyone suggest that i not be allowed to eat meat becasue they are vegatarians. I even have a friend who is a vegan who i routinely eat out with.

the reason for your deeply held beleif isn't really pertinent. THe issue is forcing your deeply held beleif on others. I disagree with your assertion that most 'liberty' issues have migrated to the right. I think the right just doesnt see the 'liberty' issues on the left as important or valid.

 

[Bird Dog]

I think the right just doesnt see the 'liberty' issues on the left as important or valid.

They're not......

 

[SamSpade]

yep, but since they are 'legal' they are not going away anytime soon, if ever

Which is probably why as long as I've been alive - I keep hearing panic in the streets because "XXXXXX" is going to outlaw all abortions and ban contraception(!) - and nothing ever comes close.
Ever. E-ver.

Jimmy Carter famously said he was "morally opposed to abortion" - a sentiment later echoed by many Presidents - who did just about nothing on the issue.

It is not going away. It will likely ONLY go away once most Americans decide for themselves they don't really want it. And I mean, a substantial most, not 50% plus one.

This was kind of what Lincoln meant when he discussed slavery - he hated it - lived a life opposing it - but knew it would only end when the nation was against it.

Kind of the old saw that "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

 

[Clem72]

. I have never had anyone suggest that i not be allowed to eat meat becasue they are vegatarians. I even have a friend who is a vegan who i routinely eat out with.

Of course not. If they made eating meat illegal they wouldn't be able to tell you how much better than you they are when you go out to eat with them.

"A) Where do you want to meet for lunch, the new Mexican place is supposed to be good and fast."
"B) Do they have a certified GMO and lactose free Vegan menu, because I couldn't possibly eat anything with a face. I just don't have the strength to not care about the environment or animals the way you do."
"A) Okay, you pick."

 

[Midnightrider]

Which is probably why as long as I've been alive - I keep hearing panic in the streets because "XXXXXX" is going to outlaw all abortions and ban contraception(!) - and nothing ever comes close.
Ever. E-ver.

Jimmy Carter famously said he was "morally opposed to abortion" - a sentiment later echoed by many Presidents - who did just about nothing on the issue.

It is not going away. It will likely ONLY go away once most Americans decide for themselves they don't really want it. And I mean, a substantial most, not 50% plus one.

This was kind of what Lincoln meant when he discussed slavery - he hated it - lived a life opposing it - but knew it would only end when the nation was against it.

Kind of the old saw that "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still".

i have news for you, an awful lot of people were convinceed against their will that slavery was over in the USA. But again, the issues isn't whether or not the law is actually going to change over a person's opinion. The OP was clearly indicating that conservatives dont try to force their opinion on others while liberals do. That is demonstrably not true. Conservatives are just as guilty as liberals are at this

 

[Bird Dog]

i would argue the same could be said for most if not all the items on the intial list. I have never had anyone suggest that i not be allowed to eat meat becasue they are vegatarians.

http://www.peta.org/about-peta/

 

[SamSpade]

Of course not. If they made eating meat illegal they wouldn't be able to tell you how much better than you they are when you go out to eat with them.

"A) Where do you want to meet for lunch, the new Mexican place is supposed to be good and fast."
"B) Do they have a certified GMO and lactose free Vegan menu, because I couldn't possibly eat anything with a face. I just don't have the strength to not care about the environment or animals the way you do."
"A) Okay, you pick."

That's about right - the die-hard types I know who do it for some kind of moral or political reason won't make meat illegal - yet - but they will give no end of #### for eating it.

Result - I either capitulate - because unlike THEM, I don't lose a gasket over food - or we don't go out to eat with them.

When I was in college, I remember a bunch of animal rights activists who went into one of the school buildings - where they were teaching slaughter - which I guess you learn if you want to kill animals for food, humanely - and took all the rabbits. They claimed later in the paper that "we want to stop the bunny burger in your lifetime" (actual words). They claimed then that they set them loose - rabbits bred indoors, being set loose in the wild. So instead of being killed for food, in all likelihood they died much more tragic deaths of victim by predation, run over on a road, starvation or any of a number of deaths, because being born and raised indoors cannot prepare you for life in the wild, where you have no instincts to protect you.

Of course, I have over the course of my life run into animal rights types who even object to having pets - at all. Including dogs and cats. As if them running around wild is something that will happen.
Used to date a girl who has definitely gone over to the dark side of "no meat served in my presence and not my house".

 

[SamSpade]

i have news for you, an awful lot of people were convinceed against their will that slavery was over in the USA. But again, the issues isn't whether or not the law is actually going to change over a person's opinion. The OP was clearly indicating that conservatives dont try to force their opinion on others while liberals do. That is demonstrably not true. Conservatives are just as guilty as liberals are at this

I agree - somewhat. We do try to impose our opinion. I just think it is far less likely that they choose to use the force of law to compel people.

 

[SamSpade]

the reason for your deeply held beleif isn't really pertinent. THe issue is forcing your deeply held beleif on others. I disagree with your assertion that most 'liberty' issues have migrated to the right. I think the right just doesnt see the 'liberty' issues on the left as important or valid.

I guess the liberty issues on the left are never argued to me as such - it usually begins with a personal attack - and ends there.

An example for instance I don't get is - school choice. You would THINK this would be something the left is FOR - but - teacher unions. So it's not principle.

 

[This_person]

You do say some stupid #### sometimes. There were dozens (possibly hundreds?) of laws on the books banning abortion. Just because they aren't currently enforceable due to a supreme court judgment doesn't mean they don't exist or that conservatives don't still want them to be enforced.

I'm sorry, but killing people is an apples-and-bricks comparison here to the rest of the things on the list. Using it as the first argument proves the argument invalid.

 

[Toxick]

if a conservative doesnt like abortion, he tries to have all abortions banned. A liberal who doesn't like abortion just doesn't get one.

I would like to point out that this particular issue is different. A conservative (generally) sees an abortion as the actual killing of another human being, and therefore doesn't quite fall under the same umbrella as "this is something I don't like, so it's gotta stop". (Whether or not you disagree with the viability of a fetus isn't the point! It's the intent of the disagreement - not to control, but to protect).

if a conservative doesn't like gay marriage they try to enact a law that makes them illegal. If a liberal doens't like gay marriage they don't have one.

Agreed.

 

[Toxick]

If a conservative doesn't approve of homosexual marriage, but it is the law, they will tolerate the right of those that do it.

Weren't conservatives kicking around the idea of a Constitutional Amendment which defines "Marriage" as being between exclusively 1 man and 1 woman.

Not that long ago.

 

[Midnightrider]

I would like to point out that this particular issue is different. A conservative (generally) sees an abortion as the actual killing of another human being, and therefore doesn't quite fall under the same umbrella as "this is something I don't like, so it's gotta stop". (Whether or not you disagree with the viability of a fetus isn't the point! It's the intent of the disagreement - not to control, but to protect).




Agreed.

liberals have issues where their intent is to save lives. I am no guncontrol fan, but liberals intent is always to protect when they try to ban guns.
additionally, a lot of people who are prochoice are so because they beleive a woman who is considering killing her unborn baby might not make the best parent. so......

 

[Toxick]

liberals have issues where their intent is to save lives. I am no guncontrol fan, but liberals intent is always to protect when they try to ban guns.

Meh .... I'm not so sure.

I tend to agree that the run of the mill, rank-n-file Liberal probably does want to save lives. (Although, I am of the opinion that sort of thinking is exceptionally short-sighted, and has a deadly boomerang effect associated.)

When anyone in The Government talks about banning guns I can't help but project the "An unarmed population is defenseless against us" air of malice and manipulation. Especially when the mess around with numbers to get people on board.

additionally, a lot of people who are prochoice are so because they believe a woman who is considering killing her unborn baby might not make the best parent. so......

I could get on board with that, but there are other options besides turning your baby into knackwurst. Thousands upon thousands of couples on adoption waiting lists. (With that said, I am reluctantly pro-choice, but I still see it as cold-blooded ####ing murder, and it sickens me that the practice even exists.)

 

[Midnightrider]

Meh .... I'm not so sure.

I tend to agree that the run of the mill, rank-n-file Liberal probably does want to save lives. (Although, I am of the opinion that sort of thinking is exceptionally short-sighted, and has a deadly boomerang effect associated.)

When anyone in The Government talks about banning guns I can't help but project the "An unarmed population is defenseless against us" air of malice and manipulation. Especially when the mess around with numbers to get people on board.

yep. I dont agree with their logic, but i am pretty sure that is what they are trying to do.

I could get on board with that, but there are other options besides turning your baby into knackwurst. Thousands upon thousands of couples on adoption waiting lists. (With that said, I am reluctantly pro-choice, but I still see it as cold-blooded ####ing murder, and it sickens me that the practice even exists.)

there sure are better options. However, the numbers dont work out to all of those 'unwanted' babies getting placed in adoption. I too am reluctently prochoice. It is what it is.

 

[Toxick]

However, the numbers dont work out to all of those 'unwanted' babies getting placed in adoption.

Maybe if we let gay couples adopt.

 

[Monello]

i laughed at the hypocrisy of that list and what it left off.

How about:
if a conservative doesnt like abortion, he tries to have all abortions banned. A liberal who doesn't like abortion just doesn't get one.

What is objected to is the taxpayers footing the bill for this. Otherwise abort away on your own dime.

 

[black dog]

I do find it amusing that so many men are against abortion and constantly argue their point. It's like they also have the plumbing to actually become pregnant.
Conservative men can be some of the worst bigots about all the Freedoms they insist they receive as a citizen here but yet they want to impose laws governing what a female can do with their own medical decisions.
Conservative lawmakers would do well letting the entire topic of abortion just wither away and let sleeping dogs sleep.
And not all Conservatives are against abortion, just like all liberals are not for gun control.