Which Sola Scripture Church.......

[ItalianScallion]

So what do you do? Someone tells you they're a believer and then you quiz them? And how do they satisfy you that they're a believer by believing exactly as you do?

Actually I often do that if I won't be hanging around them for a time. I did it a while back and ended up leading a young mormon girl to the real Jesus.

1) If you think baptism is only symbolic, then why do you even care?
2) We're Catholic. What's in scripture is that we baptize and that's what we do. Perhaps you can point out to me where it says in the bible that one must immerse seeing how you're sola scriptura and all.
3) Intent and form is what Catholics care about. The only requirement is that one is baptized with the intention of entering in the life of Christ and grace, and that it's done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

1) Because error leads to more errors
2) Look up the Greek word for Baptism
3) Actually the Bible says baptism comes AFTER making a conscious choice to enter in the life of Christ. You know, the: "Repent & be baptized..." thing?

So what you're saying is that SOMETIMES you need men because only SOMETIMES the Holy Spirit actually guide someone to truth through scripture alone. And this still begs the question how one does not have the Holy Spirit if an unbeliever, but can't become a believer without the Holy Spirit that apparently only then SOMETIMES brings them to truth.

Part of the work of the Holy Spirit is to allow others to come into our lives and teach us. The Holy Spirit would help us learn gradually if no one came into our lives to teach us.

God says that only believers are given the "secret things of God" (1 Corinth 2v7 and 4v1). Unbelievers don't get that but they do get enough Scripture to be accountable. Otherwise they couldn't be held accountable for their choices.

I'm saying scripture alone isn't because it was never meant to be. It was meant to go hand-in-hand with Sacred Tradition (which actually existed first by necessity). Supplement, yes as scripture supplements Tradition and Tradition supplements scripture, but replace, no.

Traditions are only good if they don't contradict Scripture. Jesus made that very clear in Matthew 15. There's a lot of bad tradition out there that the Bible warns against.

 

[Starman3000m]

You stated only certain persons have the ability to interpret the Bible correctly.

I am looking for the "Best One", none of you can tell me which of the 100+ Sola Srcripture chuches in SOMD can lead me in the right direction.
We should not look for a church that agrees with us, we should look for a church that steers us correctly.

That is why Sola Scriptre does not work. It takes 100+ churches to investigate in little ole Sothern Maryland to see if the church "agrees" with me.
I don't think Jesus gave us that option.

First of all, Bird Dog, you don't need to first go to a "church" to find God; you need to first go to God to find Him.

Then, in your sincere prayer request, ask His (no one else's) spiritual guidance that will lead you to a church where the teachings from the Holy Bible will open up your understanding of how to grow and mature in your spiritual walk through faith in Christ alone and whereby you are assured of Salvation by His Grace and that you are now a Child of God through faith in Christ alone.

I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
(Proverbs 8:17)

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. (Jeremiah 29:13)

and;

( Jesus said ) All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
(Matthew 11:27-29)

 

[Bird Dog]

First of all, Bird Dog, you don't need to first go to a "church" to find God; you need to first go to God to find Him.

Then, in your sincere prayer request, ask His (no one else's) spiritual guidance that will lead you to a church where the teachings from the Holy Bible will open up your understanding of how to grow and mature in your spiritual walk through faith in Christ alone and whereby you are assured of Salvation by His Grace and that you are now a Child of God through faith in Christ alone.

Thanks, but I am there. The OP was a rhetorical question, as you are aware.
I will repeat myself again, we should not be questioning flocks. We should spend our time filling the flocks.

Disagreement amongst believers only keeps the ones who need our help away.
Christianity should never be an exclusive club, all should be welcome.
Do I beleive that the Catholic Church is the true Church...yes.
Do I beleive that the Catholic Church made some big mistakes throughout history ...yes.
but, if you want to save souls, as we are called to do, do not make it my way or the highway, Jesus opened up his ministry to all that believed, the poor, tax collectors, prostitutes, sinners all. His rules were a lot simpler than yours. There was no Bible at that time, no true Sola Scriptue.
You judge people a lot harsher than He did.
I do not, nor does anyone else need to find God, he is right there.

I am now taking a sabbatical from the religion forums, as they hurt my soul.

God Bless you all.

 

[Radiant1]

Actually I often do that if I won't be hanging around them for a time.

I have no doubt you do.

I did it a while back and ended up leading a young mormon girl to the real Jesus.

Glory to God! <---- That's a double entendre in case you missed it.

1) Because error leads to more errors
2) Look up the Greek word for Baptism
3) Actually the Bible says baptism comes AFTER making a conscious choice to enter in the life of Christ. You know, the: "Repent & be baptized..." thing?

1) That doesn't really answer the question. If you think it just a symbol, then I don't see why it matters to you.
2) I already had some time ago of course, and it can mean either immerse or dip. Catholics do both, either is acceptable. As I pointed out before, no where in scripture does it command to baptize by immersion.
3) Already explained in this thread or one of the the other sola scriptura thread I don't recall.

Part of the work of the Holy Spirit is to allow others to come into our lives and teach us. The Holy Spirit would help us learn gradually if no one came into our lives to teach us.

So the jungle boy who has never heard the Word of God either by preaching or reading the bible can be saved?

God says that only believers are given the "secret things of God" (1 Corinth 2v7 and 4v1). Unbelievers don't get that but they do get enough Scripture to be accountable. Otherwise they couldn't be held accountable for their choices.

Are you a Gnostic, IS?

Traditions are only good if they don't contradict Scripture. Jesus made that very clear in Matthew 15. There's a lot of bad tradition out there that the Bible warns against.

There's a difference between Apostolic or Sacred Tradition (notice I always use a capital T) and human tradition. Apostolic or Sacred Tradition (capital T) is a revealed truth that doesn't change such as Jesus is both God and man; tradition (lower case t) can change such as priestly celibacy (currently a discipline not a doctrine of course). There's actually a huge difference between the two and, since you like to look at context, actually look at the context of Matthew 15, Jesus is referring to the criticism of the disciples not washing their hands before they eat and the issue of clean or unclean foods. Now, you may have an argument with my mother who insisted we all wash our hands before we eat as if it were a direct command from God, but you don't have one against Sacred Tradition.

 

[Radiant1]

In fact, since you require it, scripture attests to Sacred Tradition. Like I said, they go hand in hand. The following was put together by an IRC friend from many years ago.

Mark 13:31 - heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus' Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.

Mark 3:14; 16:15 - Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn't He have said a word about it?

Luke 10:16 - He who hears you (not "who reads your writings"), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.

Luke 24:47 - Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ's name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.

Acts 2:3-4 - the Holy Spirit came to the apostles in the form of "tongues" of fire so that they would "speak" (not just write) the Word.

Acts 15:27 - Judas and Silas, successors to the apostles, were sent to bring God's infallible Word by "word of mouth."

Rom. 10:8 - the Word is near you, on your lips and in your heart, which is the word of faith which is preached (not just written).

Rom. 10:17 - faith comes by what is "heard" (not just read) which is the Word that is "preached" (not read). This word comes from the oral tradition of the apostles. Those in countries where the Scriptures are not available can still come to faith in Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:1,11 - faith comes from what is "preached" (not read). For non-Catholics to argue that oral tradition once existed but exists no longer, they must prove this from Scripture. But no where does Scripture say oral tradition died with the apostles. To the contrary, Scripture says the oral word abides forever.

Gal. 1:11-12 - the Gospel which is "preached" (not read) to me is not a man's Gospel, but the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph. 1:13 - hearing (not reading) the Word of truth is the gospel of our salvation. This is the living word in the Church's living tradition.

Col. 1:5 - of this you have "heard" (not read) before in the word of truth, the Gospel which has come to you.

1 Thess. 2:13 - the Word of God is what you have "heard" (not read). The orally communicated word of God lasts forever, and this word is preserved within the Church by the Holy Spirit.

2 Tim. 1:13 - oral communications are protected by the Spirit. They abide forever. Oral authority does not die with the apostles.

2 Tim. 4:2,6-7 - Paul, at the end of his life, charges Timothy to preach (not write) the Word. Oral teaching does not die with Paul.

Titus 1:3 - God's word is manifested "through preaching" (not writing). This "preaching" is the tradition that comes from the apostles.

1 Peter 1:25 - the Word of the Lord abides forever and that Word is the good news that was "preached" (not read) to you. Because the Word is preached by the apostles and it lasts forever, it must be preserved by the apostles' successors, or this could not be possible. Also, because the oral word abides forever, oral apostolic tradition could not have died in the fourth century with all teachings being committed to Scripture.

2 Peter 1:12, 15 - Peter says that he will leave a "means to recall these things in mind." But since this was his last canonical epistle, this "means to recall" must therefore be the apostolic tradition and teaching authority of his office that he left behind.

2 John 1:12; 3 John 13 - John prefers to speak and not to write. Throughout history, the Word of God was always transferred orally and Jesus did not change this. To do so would have been a radical departure from the Judaic tradition.

Deut. 31:9-12 - Moses had the law read only every seven years. Was the word of God absent during the seven year interval? Of course not. The Word of God has always been given orally by God's appointed ones, and was never limited to Scripture.

Isa. 40:8 - the grass withers, the flower fades, but the Word of our God (not necessarily written) will stand forever.

Isa. 59:21 - Isaiah prophesies the promise of a living voice to hand on the Word of God to generations by mouth, not by a book. This is either a false prophecy, or it has been fulfilled by the Catholic Church.

Joel 1:3 - tell your children of the Word of the Lord, and they tell their children, and their children tell another generation.

Mal. 2:7 - the lips of a priest guard knowledge, and we should seek instruction from his mouth. Protestants want to argue all oral tradition was committed to Scripture? But no where does Scripture say this.

 

[Radiant1]

In addition...

Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God's word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God's law of honoring one's father and mother.)

Mark 7:9 - this is the same as Matt. 15:3 - there is a distinction between human tradition (that we should reject) and apostolic tradition (that we must accept).

Gal. 1:14; Col. 2:22 – Paul also writes about “the traditions of my fathers” and “human precepts and doctrines” which regarded the laws of Judaism. These traditions are no longer necessary.

Acts 2:42 - the members obeyed apostolic tradition (doctrine, prayers, and the breaking of bread). Their obedience was not to the Scriptures alone. Tradition (in Greek, "paradosis") means "to hand on" teaching.

Acts 20:7 - this verse gives us a glimpse of Christian worship on Sunday, but changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday is understood primarily from oral apostolic tradition.

John 17:20 - Jesus prays for all who believe in Him through the oral word of the apostles. Jesus protects oral apostolic teaching.

1 Cor. 11:2 - Paul commends the faithful for maintaining the apostolic tradition that they have received. The oral word is preserved and protected by the Spirit.

Eph. 4:20 – Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!”

Phil. 4:9 - Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.

Col. 1:5-6 – of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel, which has come to you. This delivery of the faith refers to the oral tradition the Colossians had previously received from the ordained leaders of the Church. This oral tradition is called the gospel of truth.

1 Thess.1:5 – our gospel came to you not only in word, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul is referring to the oral tradition which the Thessalonians had previously received. There is never any instruction to abandon these previous teachings; to the contrary, they are to be followed as the word of God.

1 Thess. 4:2 – Paul again refers the Thessalonians to the instructions they already had received, which is the oral apostolic tradition.

2 Thess. 2:5 – Paul yet again refers the Thessalonians to the previous teachings they received from Paul when he taught them orally. These oral teachings are no less significant than the written teachings.

2 Thess. 2:15 - Paul clearly commands us in this verse to obey oral apostolic tradition. He says stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, either by word of mouth or letter. This verse proves that for apostolic authority, oral and written communications are on par with each other. Protestants must find a verse that voids this commandment to obey oral tradition elsewhere in the Bible, or they are not abiding by the teachings of Scripture.

2 Thess. 2:15 - in fact, it was this apostolic tradition that allowed the Church to select the Bible canon (apostolicity was determined from tradition). Since all the apostles were deceased at the time the canon was decided, the Church had to rely on the apostolic tradition of their successors. Hence, the Bible is an apostolic tradition of the Catholic Church. This also proves that oral tradition did not cease with the death of the last apostle. Other examples of apostolic tradition include the teachings on the Blessed Trinity, the hypostatic union (Jesus had a divine and human nature in one person), the filioque (that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son), the assumption of Mary, and knowing that the Gospel of Matthew was written by Matthew.

2 Thess. 3:6 - Paul again commands the faithful to live in accord with the tradition that they received from the apostles.

2 Thess. 3:7 - Paul tells them they already know how to imitate the elders. He is referring them to the tradition they have learned by his oral preaching and example.

1 Tim. 6:20 - guard what has been "entrusted" to you. The word "entrusted" is "paratheke" which means a "deposit." Oral tradition is part of what the Church has always called the Deposit of Faith.

2 Tim. 2:2 - Paul says what you have heard from me entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. This is "tradition," or the handing on of apostolic teaching.

2 Tim. 3:14 - continue in what you have learned and believed knowing from whom you learned it (by oral tradition).

1 John 2:7 – John refers to the oral word his disciples have heard which is the old commandment that we love one another.

Oh, and there's more...

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the oral tradition of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

John 19:26; 20:2; 21:20,24 - knowing that the "beloved disciple" is John is inferred from Scripture, but is also largely oral tradition.

Acts 20:35 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles for this statement ("it is better to give than to receive") of Jesus. It is not recorded in the Gospels.

1 Cor. 7:10 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the apostles to give the charge of Jesus that a wife should not separate from her husband.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the oral tradition of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exodus 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

Eph 5:14 - Paul relies on oral tradition to quote an early Christian hymn - "awake O sleeper rise from the dead and Christ shall give you light."

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the oral tradition of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the oral tradition of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

 

[cheezgrits]

Thanks, but I am there. The OP was a rhetorical question, as you are aware.
I will repeat myself again, we should not be questioning flocks. We should spend our time filling the flocks.

Disagreement amongst believers only keeps the ones who need our help away.
Christianity should never be an exclusive club, all should be welcome.
Do I beleive that the Catholic Church is the true Church...yes.
Do I beleive that the Catholic Church made some big mistakes throughout history ...yes.
but, if you want to save souls, as we are called to do, do not make it my way or the highway, Jesus opened up his ministry to all that believed, the poor, tax collectors, prostitutes, sinners all. His rules were a lot simpler than yours. There was no Bible at that time, no true Sola Scriptue.
You judge people a lot harsher than He did.
I do not, nor does anyone else need to find God, he is right there.

I am now taking a sabbatical from the religion forums, as they hurt my soul.

God Bless you all.

Bird Dog, I understand why you'd need a break. I also feel that way some days here. I do not understand why one religion simply thinks "their" Jesus, God or deity is better or true. We are all humans, maybe we should focus on each other instead of who's right.

 

[libby]

Thanks, but I am there. The OP was a rhetorical question, as you are aware.
I will repeat myself again, we should not be questioning flocks. We should spend our time filling the flocks.

Disagreement amongst believers only keeps the ones who need our help away.
Christianity should never be an exclusive club, all should be welcome.
Do I beleive that the Catholic Church is the true Church...yes.
Do I beleive that the Catholic Church made some big mistakes throughout history ...yes.
but, if you want to save souls, as we are called to do, do not make it my way or the highway, Jesus opened up his ministry to all that believed, the poor, tax collectors, prostitutes, sinners all. His rules were a lot simpler than yours. There was no Bible at that time, no true Sola Scriptue.
You judge people a lot harsher than He did.
I do not, nor does anyone else need to find God, he is right there.

I am now taking a sabbatical from the religion forums, as they hurt my soul.

God Bless you all.

While I still read 50% of the threads on this forum, I've had to stop participating, for the most part. SM and IS, in particular (although it looks like StoneThrower is of the same ilk) have made it impossible to enjoy learning why people believe what they believe. I want to learn about other faiths, but I never came here with the intention of converting people, or attacking other faiths.
The God I know, love and serve is the only One that knows what is in anyone's heart. He knows if we are seeking Him. If we are, and we have been misguided, or if we have misunderstood something, He is merciful. Anyone, inside or outside of the Catholic Church, or Christianity, may find Heaven, by the merits of Jesus Christ.
God bless you, BD.

 

[Starman3000m]

... Anyone, inside or outside of the Catholic Church, or Christianity, may find Heaven, by the merits of Jesus Christ.
God bless you, BD.

libby, I still love you as a friend, believe it or not.

However, your ending statement makes it appear that you are in agreement with the ecumenical view that "all roads (faiths) lead to God" by the merits of Jesus Christ. The question is, whose Jesus? The Jesus of the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Moonies, etc? Because they all teach a different Jesus.

This is what The New Testament Jesus Christ stated:

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[cheezgrits]

libby, I still love you as a friend, believe it or not.

However, your ending statement makes it appear that you are in agreement with the ecumenical view that "all roads (faiths) lead to God" by the merits of Jesus Christ. The question is, whose Jesus? The Jesus of the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Moonies, etc? Because they all teach a different Jesus.

This is what The New Testament Jesus Christ stated:

I swear, this is why I'm leaving this forum. Please, someday, just delight in the peace and love of one another. Quit trying to always be right and cram that YOUR version of what YOU think is right down EVERYONES throat!

 

[onel0126]

I swear, this is why I'm leaving this forum. Please, someday, just delight in the peace and love of one another. Quit trying to always be right and cram that YOUR version of what YOU think is right down EVERYONES throat!

You wouldn't be the first, or last. His conversion rate on this forum stands at 0% for a reason.

 

[ItalianScallion]

1) That doesn't really answer the question. If you think it just a symbol, then I don't see why it matters to you.
2) I already had some time ago of course, and it can mean either immerse or dip. Catholics do both, either is acceptable. As I pointed out before, no where in scripture does it command to baptize by immersion.

1) Woman, you're hopeless! The answer is just what I've said. :shrug:
2) ^^ditto^^

According to the Bible, "Baptizo" (Greek): To dip, immerse or submerge. While baptism does NOT save or wash away sins and isn't necessary to be saved, it is commanded by Jesus as an act of obedience and as a public profession of our salvation & association with Christ. Jesus & John the Baptist did it publically and we should too...

So the jungle boy who has never heard the Word of God either by preaching or reading the bible can be saved?

YES! Are you saying that God can't reach "jungle boy" w/o a person or a book? Not everyone has access to the Bible so how can everyone (who will be accountable) be accountable if God hasn't reached them with the Gospel? Not everyone is accountable but God cannot just let anyone into Heaven because they haven't heard His Gospel. He HAS to make the accountable people accountable. Imagine how much of a stink that would raise on judgment day if He didn't?

And btw, just because I know how you are, I'll say this: A person doesn't need the Bible in hand to know what Gods' will is. It's what's written in the Bible that stands. Not having the Bible in their hands doesn't preclude their salvation so don't go blonde on that SS thing here. SS still applies...

Are you a Gnostic, IS?

Nope. It's WHO I know not WHAT I know that saved me.

I'm not saved because of my knowledge, I'm knowledgeable because I've been saved.

...SM and IS, in particular (although it looks like StoneThrower is of the same ilk) have made it impossible to enjoy learning why people believe what they believe. I want to learn about other faiths, but I never came here with the intention of converting people, or attacking other faiths. The God I know, knows if we are seeking Him. If we have been misguided, or if we have misunderstood something, He is merciful.

A lot of liberalism there Libby. God is not a liberal. Jesus said it's His way or NO way. Are you & Oprah saying He's wrong?

And yes, He does know if someone is "misguided or has misunderstood something" BUT it's whether they respond correctly to His truth that determines their salvation. He does NOT save people just because they've misunderstand His Word, otherwise almost everyone would get saved.

Not everyone is called to be an evangelist but NO ONE was ever saved just so they could selfishly get to Heaven. God saved us so that we would share His Word with those who come across our path. If Catholics won't evangelize, they're being disobedient to God:

1 "In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who will judge the living and the dead, and in view of his appearing and his kingdom, I give you this charge:

Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.

For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry." (2 Timothy 4)

 

[libby]

libby, I still love you as a friend, believe it or not.

However, your ending statement makes it appear that you are in agreement with the ecumenical view that "all roads (faiths) lead to God" by the merits of Jesus Christ. The question is, whose Jesus? The Jesus of the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, Muslims, Moonies, etc? Because they all teach a different Jesus.

This is what The New Testament Jesus Christ stated:

SM, you need to get it through your head that if, indeed, you are correct in all that you believe about "the New Testament Jesus", then great humility is all we should be seeing from you. You are no more worthy than the atheist next door to have received the gift of faith.
Additionally, I did not say "all roads lead to God". What I said was, that only God knows if someone is truly seeking Him and the Truth. Only He can judge that soul.

 

[libby]

I did it a while back and ended up leading a young mormon girl to the real Jesus.

And this, right here, is part of the mentality that SM and IS display. How boastful of you to say, "I...ended up leading a...girl to the real Jesus."

Seriously?? Do you even understand the magnitude of that statement?

 

[ItalianScallion]

You wouldn't be the first, or last. His conversion rate on this forum stands at 0% for a reason.

Now that's really ignorant Onel. You & I have NO idea whether anyone reading these threads has come to Christ or not. They are under no obligation to tell us if they did either but I guarantee that a LOT of people have read these forums and have learned a lot from us. I can attest to a few people on here coming up to me in person and saying that to me.

I swear, this is why I'm leaving this forum. Please, someday, just delight in the peace and love of one another. Quit trying to always be right and cram that YOUR version of what YOU think is right down EVERYONES throat!

Time to grow up now & stop the whinning. NO ONE is forcing this down your throat. What's happening here is that God is making you feel guilty for ignoring His truth. The devil is making you angry at us because we're telling you that it's not: "any way to Heaven that WE choose", it's His way or No way. If you truly don't want to know the truth, you are free to leave, ignore it or debate it.

 

[ItalianScallion]

And this, right here, is part of the mentality that SM and IS display. How boastful of you to say, "I...ended up leading a...girl to the real Jesus." Seriously?? Do you even understand the magnitude of that statement?

What's the problem? I witnessed to her and God saved her. Are you saying that I can't tell others about this and be excited at what God did through me? It's not like I said "I saved her". That young girl was soo excited that she went to another church and told it to the entire congregation. She was saved one day and was witnessing the next It's called: "her testimony" and each of us should have one.

I'm boasting of what God did through me, that's all. You sound like the Jews when Jesus came back to His hometown in Matthew 13v56. If your spiritual head was screwed on straight, you would be excited that a soul was saved from Hell. Do you understand the magnitude of YOUR statement? :shrug:

 

[libby]

What's the problem? I witnessed to her and God saved her. Are you saying that I can't tell others about this and be excited at what God did through me? It's not like I said "I saved her". That young girl was soo excited that she went to another church and told it to the entire congregation. She was saved one day and was witnessing the next It's called: "her testimony" and each of us should have one.

I'm boasting of what God did through me, that's all. You sound like the Jews when Jesus came back to His hometown in Matthew 13v56. If your spiritual head was screwed on straight, you would be excited that a soul was saved from Hell. Do you understand the magnitude of YOUR statement? :shrug:

You would give all the credit to God, period. You shouldn't be boasting at all! Years ago, during the Clinton adminstration, I was having a conversation with someone. It centered on some news report that described Clinton as "humble" because of his efforts for the downtrodden/underdog/less fortunate...or whatever. This person pointed out that "humble" does not mean that you reach down to someone and try to help him up (that would be charity, which is a good thing, but not the point I'm trying to make) A humble person looks UP...to everyone. A humble person always sees what is better in another person than in himself, and will try to emulate that.
Another example. Obedience. And I'll even use the RCC and her "rules". Abortion. I don't have an abortion because I have come to agree with the RCC and the reason for the "rules". It is no longer a matter of obedience; intellectually, I assent, so obedience ceases to be the virtue involved. On the other hand, birth control. I don't see birth control as the big deal the church says it is, but I yield to her authority and use only natural family planning. Then I am obedient.
Words matter. Something that was a political football during the 90's.

Mother Theresa never took credit and ran around town "excited" that she had given comfort to hundreds of thousands. Yet some of your flavor of Bible Christian call into question the state of her soul based on her great humilty.

 

[cheezgrits]

Time to grow up now & stop the whinning. NO ONE is forcing this down your throat. What's happening here is that God is making you feel guilty for ignoring His truth. The devil is making you angry at us because we're telling you that it's not: "any way to Heaven that WE choose", it's His way or No way. If you truly don't want to know the truth, you are free to leave, ignore it or debate it.

Whining? Really? See, there's that pompous ass "christian" behavior I love. Debate? Tell me how it is YOU, little man, think YOU know the "real" Jesus?? Think your interpretation of the bible makes it so? Who are you? What authority do you have? Who anointed you? How do you know I can't or haven't read the bible and may know who I think Jesus is and I'm right.

Show respect for my opinions and thoughts and you'll get respect for yours.

 

[ItalianScallion]

You would give all the credit to God, period. You shouldn't be boasting at all!

1 Corinthians 1 v 31...

Do you honestly think that I took credit for her salvation? :NAIVE:
When I say that Charles Stanley led me to Christ, it doesn't mean that HE saved me.

See what not knowing/believing the Bible does to you?

Whining? Really? See, there's that pompous ass "christian" behavior I love.

There you go; let the names fly. I'm sure Tonto would be proud of you.

Disagree if you want to but who are you to tell me I have the wrong information? See? You're just as pompous as you say that I am. You don't know a thing about me and yet you claim that I don't know Jesus. Stick to the discussion please and leave the personal stuff out until you learn more.

1) Tell me how it is YOU, little man, think YOU know the "real" Jesus??
2) Think your interpretation of the bible makes it so?
3) Who are you?
4) What authority do you have?
5) Who anointed you?
6) How do you know I can't or haven't read the bible and may know who I think Jesus is and I'm right.

1) "Little man" eh? He reveals Himself to anyone who truly wants to follow Him
2) I'm betting my life on it. You should too
3) A sinner saved by the love & grace of God
4) The authority given to me by God Himself (you can't top that one btw)
5) The Holy Spirit
6) It's obvious by your refusal to acknowledge Him. You worship an unknown being. If you worshipped the true Creator, you'd be led right to the foot of the cross and you'd know Him as I do...

 

[mamatutu]

I don't like to see my fellow forumites at odds. My parents were Unitarian, and so I was raised. My childrens' father was Methodist, so our children were baptized as that denomination, as was I. My ex is now an atheist. My second, and current marriage is to an Episcopalian, and that denomination is what I practice, now. My daughter's love of her life is Catholic, and she is going to convert before they are married. I have an extensive Native American heritage on both sides of my family. The point of my post is that no matter how many times I have changed my "religion", my "religion" has never changed. There is a higher power that we should pray to because, frankly, nothing else in the world makes sense, anymore. All of us religious people have the same idea; it is just preached differently. I want to say that religion should not be the reason people are killing each other, and, I know that includes Christians. There will always be some crazies in any religion. Maybe, if we all could come together religiously, we could then reign in all the political/government entities that are trying to destroy us. Afterall, religion in the name of God, and he has many names, should be, in simple terms, One. JMO