Which would you prefer:

[luvmygdaughters]

I tip according to service. 95% of the time, we have friendly wait staff and attentive service. When that doesnt happen, I dont tip. I get some people have a bad day once in a while, but, if I'm not the cause of the bad day, than dont take it out on me.

 

[SamSpade]

If wait staff goes to a wage, then, I think, a vast majority of them get into a "I don't give a chit" attitude and the service sucks.

If the restaurant is charging 20+ for a single entree - and you have a table of five - and tips are expected to exceed 20% - they ALREADY have an "I don't give a chit" attitude. They're gonna get twenty bucks for pretending to listen to you and ignoring you until the check.

I'm starting to favor a "competitive wage" with no tip - because with the idea that 20-22% - and higher - tip is expected, it means that restaurants with supremely lousy service are being rewarded for it - the only recourse is to ignore the ones with lousy service. I'm just seeing way too much poor service - mostly, extremely inattentive staff.

To my knowledge and from my brief experience - this country is the only one where this kind of tipping is the norm. Most had none - some were DEEPLY OFFENDED by us doing it - and others had standard tips that were low and consistent, regardless of the cost of service - as in, tip the bellhop a DOLLAR, because it's not the money, it's more a compliment.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm just seeing way too much poor service - mostly, extremely inattentive staff.

I think it depends on where you are. Most places here, you'll get your ass kissed but good. But Reddit has a restaurant server sub and they're constantly bitching about simply doing their job..."OMG, why should I smile when they just canceled my favorite TV show???" "Why is this person bugging me for a drink refill when I'm looking at Tik Tok videos??" That sort of thing. There's a resentment that they are serving someone else, and they think somehow that the rest of the working world isn't like that.



I've never been to Europe but I understand the service workers in those countries are some arrogant aholes, and I'm guessing some of that is because they make what they make and aren't rewarded for doing a good job. In the US money talks. We are not communists. If you're really good at your job, but the guy next to you sucks and STILL makes the same money you do, it's going to affect your motivation. I see tipping as a performance-based raise.

Those 'tude kids on Reddit bitching about how much they hate their server job and the customers, they're the ones clamoring for a "living wage" and don't want to work for tips. Mainly because they don't want to work at all, they just want someone to pay them for existing.

 

[SamSpade]

I think it depends on where you are. Most places here, you'll get your ass kissed but good.

Well we can't afford to take a whole family to higher end restaurants, so it's basically Applebee's, Olive Garden and Denny's most of the time.
We went to Cracker Barrel once, and the waitress ended her shift and didn't tell anyone.
I've seen really crappy service here.

I've never been to Europe but I understand the service workers in those countries are some arrogant aholes,

They can be - I recall a waiter in Paris who WOULD NOT WAIT ON ME until I answered his "bonjour" with "bonjour" - previously, when I said oh hello how are you? he promptly walked away.

but the guy next to you sucks and STILL makes the same money you do, it's going to affect your motivation. I see tipping as a performance-based raise.

And THAT is precisely why this "expectation" of a tip REGARDLESS of performance pretty much ENSURES that the service WON'T improve. For exactly the reasons you mention. No one's busting their hump if everyone gets that 20-25%. If it becomes acceptable to leave NOTHING for lousy service, then I can see it. As it is, we even have well-meaning people paying them that tip if for no other reason than they're getting a crappy wage.

It's even worse when you're with a large party and tip is automatically included. THEN you're practically guaranteed to get lousy service, because it's a lot of work AND your tip is assured. NO REASON to work harder at all.

I mean, I SEE how it works both ways - tips to get good service - higher wage, no tip - no incentive for good service. But that works as long as there's an understanding that LOUSY SERVICE gets nothing, and good service gets something. If people get irate because they didn't get a tip and they just phoned it in because they think "they pay me dirt wages, I deserve better" - there's nothing you can do about it.

Frankly, it seems the current generation acts so entitled, I'm for getting rid of it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Frankly, it seems the current generation acts so entitled, I'm for getting rid of it.

But you'd still be paying them anyway and have no control over it because the meal prices would be higher to compensate. So you're still "tipping" the bad server, and every other bad server in the restaurant.

If it becomes acceptable to leave NOTHING for lousy service, then I can see it.

It's already acceptable to leave nothing for lousy service. What makes you think it's not? Because some lazy punk who sucks at their job says so? Because people you don't even know are trying to make you feel guilty for not rewarding incompetence?

That's a real question: what makes you think it's not acceptable to leave no tip when you get crappy service?

 

[SamSpade]

Both my sisters at one time waited tables, and the younger one worked at several different KINDS of restaurants - fancy ones, cheap ones, truck stop ones with biker dudes.

And my BIL has managed restaurants for decades - they all have their stories.

Younger sister said young female professionals dining alone were the worst - often leaving nothing, or a single dollar.
Ditto older couples, but she at least understood - fixed income, from a bygone era where tips were small.
BEST cases were young people on dates where the guy wishes to impress his date with his generosity - she paid EXTRA attention to them.

And then - there were the corporate ones. If she worked at a place where the gratuity was NOT included - she could find a tip closer to 5%.
Because people in groups aren't just selfish, they're stupid. I'd go to these luncheons, fully aware that my ten dollar bowl of soup was going to be a thirty dollar contribution - because otherwise intelligent MORONS couldn't get that a 12 dollar entree has tax - a way overpriced drink - AND tip - totaling to more than 20 bucks. So they'd get all the money in so they could pay the bill and give the waitress what was left over -

AND THEY'D BE 20 to 30 bucks SHORT. Two dozen people. How does that happen? Because people are just damned stupid.

 

[SamSpade]

That's a real question: what makes you think it's not acceptable to leave no tip when you get crappy service?

Go back over this thread - there's folks who will leave a minimal tip even for mediocre or poor service SIMPLY BECAUSE they're being paid below minimum wage. You can go to a restaurant where they'll spit on your food if you send it back - but they still want "their money".

So what we're seeing is something LIKE a wage anyway - the bulk of customers leaving that 20-25 percent regardless. *I* might stiff a lousy server, but there's enough people who will pay them anyway.

You know, I remember when I was down south, we went to a McD's where they didn't have all our stuff ready but told us they'd let us know when it was ready (usually, it's fries). So we waited outside. The girl at the register brought it out to us - very cheerfully. We were astonished - up here, we're lucky if they even LOOK AT YOU when you go back to get it.

 

[Grumpy]

AND THEY'D BE 20 to 30 bucks SHORT. Two dozen people. How does that happen? Because people are just damned stupid.

Or...someone in the group does the money, and all the people pay inclusive of a decent tip because service was great. Then the payer counts the money, gets their meal paid for by reducing the tip to 5%. I've seen that happen alot so I always ask for a separate check. Wait staff used to squawk about separate checks but nowadays it isn't that hard with the newer registers.

 

[vraiblonde]

Go back over this thread - there's folks who will leave a minimal tip even for mediocre or poor service SIMPLY BECAUSE they're being paid below minimum wage.

So let them. What does that have to do with you?

(assumes Mommy voice)

If everyone jumped off a cliff would you jump too?

You can go to a restaurant where they'll spit on your food if you send it back

What restaurant does this? Name it so everyone knows not to go there.

I've eaten in restaurants all over the country - like ALL over the country - and can count on one hand the number of times I've had a bad experience. Maybe two hands total throughout my life. And if the server *is* terrible I will happily let them know that they should be pursuing other career opportunities because this line of work is clearly not their calling. <--Ask Pete and Jazz of you don't believe me

Perhaps you have the bad luck gene when it comes to restaurants. There is a certain former forum member who was notorious for getting bad service at places nobody else had a problem with. Some of it she brought on herself because of her, um, manner of expressing herself, but I personally witnessed at least twice where everyone else was fine and only her order was jacked up.

I don't think it's because you're a jerk - I can't picture you giving a waitress a hard time or being difficult. But it has to be something...

 

[Grumpy]

.... And if the server *is* terrible I will happily let them know that they should be pursuing other career opportunities because this line of work is clearly not their calling. <--Ask Pete and Jazz of you don't believe me

Will attest to that...

 

[SamSpade]

I don't think it's because you're a jerk - I can't picture you giving a waitress a hard time or being difficult. But it has to be something...

I'm probably way too nice actually. We once went to a place where the meat was still RAW and cold inside and the mashed potatoes tasted smothered in salt - completely inedible. (My guess was, they seared something still frozen and served it). I was of the opinion just eat what you can, toss what you won't eat. Wife sent it back - and well, she was right.

"Spit"? I don't know. Sent back to me the SAME FOOD sent back to the kitchen? More than once. No one is OPENLY hostile - but I've had to get up and walk around the restaurant because they didn't get one of my kid's orders and we're all nearly done. I've had to go to the server station and fetch my own utensils because the staff was just too damned lazy and talking with their friends back in the corner. Once at Asahi, my sushi order came after everyone else was done - because they said they couldn't serve me at my table until EVERYONE sitting at the sushi bar had been served. When they offered to DISCOUNT the meal they never brought me, I said, no, the discount is 100% because I am leaving.

Now, I have had good service here - probably more than half the time. Maybe 90% of the time. My wife's general rule of thumb is, they get a tip IF they keep the water glass full and they come back and ask if everything's all right. If they can't be bothered to EVEN do that, tip might be optional.

 

[GURPS]

I'd rather tip because I like rewarding good service and would probably tip anyway if my server was a super star. Plus I know I'd get sticker shock from the high prices and would never go to that restaurant no matter how good it was because I'd essentially be tipping even the crappy servers who did nothing for me.

I'm over tipping culture .. pay a wage

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm probably way too nice actually. We once went to a place where the meat was still RAW and cold inside and the mashed potatoes tasted smothered in salt - completely inedible. (My guess was, they seared something still frozen and served it). I was of the opinion just eat what you can, toss what you won't eat. Wife sent it back - and well, she was right.

"Spit"? I don't know. Sent back to me the SAME FOOD sent back to the kitchen? More than once. No one is OPENLY hostile - but I've had to get up and walk around the restaurant because they didn't get one of my kid's orders and we're all nearly done. I've had to go to the server station and fetch my own utensils because the staff was just too damned lazy and talking with their friends back in the corner. Once at Asahi, my sushi order came after everyone else was done - because they said they couldn't serve me at my table until EVERYONE sitting at the sushi bar had been served. When they offered to DISCOUNT the meal they never brought me, I said, no, the discount is 100% because I am leaving.

Now, I have had good service here - probably more than half the time. Maybe 90% of the time. My wife's general rule of thumb is, they get a tip IF they keep the water glass full and they come back and ask if everything's all right. If they can't be bothered to EVEN do that, tip might be optional.

See, I guess when I eat in a restaurant I consider myself the server's employer and will firmly but nicely tell them how to do their job if it's clear they were not properly trained.

Larry and I used to eat at Outback in Frederick a lot - that was his favorite place because of Foster's on tap - and we had a favorite waitress who we'd ask for specifically. Early on in our relationship with this server, we waited and waited for our beers, finally flagged her down, and she said that they were changing the keg and it would be right out. A few seconds later the beers showed up. Next time we went it happened again - oh, they're changing the keg..... It was then that I informed her the "changing the keg" thing was played out, just admit she forgot. I'm perfectly okay with people forgetting - sht happens in a busy restaurant. But making some BS excuse is unacceptable. Thereafter we had no problems and she made a sht ton of tips off us over the next few years. Occasionally we'd have to inquire about our beers and she'd go, "Oh shoot, I'll go get it right now...."



On the other hand, I was with a group at....I think it was called Tides at the time, on 235 & Expedition, and witnessed the manager chewing out a server right there on the floor. I called him over, told him I'd never be back and why. Because he works for me, too, when I'm eating at his restaurant and that behavior is completely unacceptable. I effectively "fired" him.

Anyway, all of that blather is to say that bad service workers should be fired - if not by the venue, by you personally - and great servers should be rewarded.

 

[CPUSA]

As I've already stated...
I stopped tipping when the food service industry fought for $15/hr.
Didn't get your $15/hr? Sorry...choose a better battle...Look what it's cost you in the long run...

BTW...if the establishment DOES force a gratuity on you, the negative tip & what you WRITE IN to agree to pay actually works.
I did it because the service sucked & the meal was too expensive, and guess what my credit card company pai...exactly what I AGREED to pay, which was what I wrote in the bottom line....