Who didn't see this coming? : The elected Muslim from Minn.

[Vince]

You cannot do that Vince. You cannot say "Do it on the Bible, and if that is not good for you then use a flag or a copy of the constitution from the gift shop, but you cannot use the Koran because that is icky." That gives the Bible preferential treatment by the government over the Koran.

Despite the way the "separation of church and state" is twisted by both secular and non-secular in regard to other issues the one principle is clear, the government is not to sanction or prefer one religion over another.

I did not say that. I said, if everyone else is using the Bible than why does this guy think he can use another book. Use the flag, I don't care, but he shouldn't get to use whatever he wants to use to take his oath of office. Like I said, I believe in the Bible, but I'm not forcing anyone else to my beliefs. It's called free will.

 

[ylexot]

Damn. I agree with Kerad!

 

[Larry Gude]

Think about that...

Thats what they get for electing his sorry ass...........

...for just a moment; THEY elected him. Doesn't it stand to reason that this is what they wanted?

 

[johnjrval424]

I completely and totally understand Vince's point of view in this situation. For someone of another culture to use a representation of their religion over the Bible for the purpose of affirming an oath of office seems a little offensive or, perhaps, disturbing given the fact that he is Muslim and all the criminal connotations that seem to go along with that religion these days. Personally, I believe in the Bible and what it says and wouldn't dream of taking an oath upon anything but.

HOWEVER, just as there are different cultures in the world, there are different religions right within our country as well. Catholics don't believe everything that the Lutherans believe. Protestants don't believe everything the Presbyterians believe. Methodists don't believe everything the Pentecostals believe. My point is, we ALL take the oath on the same Bible. It doesn't take away from the significance of the Bible at all. Our interpretation of its content is what makes it sacred for all of us.

I have to assume (since I'm not of that faith) that the Muslims feel the same way about the Koran. And as someone eloquently stated previously, if that makes him comfortable and he considers the content of the Koran to be sacred and will help him uphold his duties in office, then go for it.

Think of it this way, if I was taking an oath of office and someone placed a Koran in front of me, do you think I would take them seriously? No way. It is totally meaningless because that's not the religion I practice. However, put a Bible in front of me and you can be assured that I will uphold my position to the utmost highest standard.

Just my personal observation...

 

[Kerad]

Damn. I agree with Kerad!

Don't worry...I'm sure it's just brief moment of clarity. You'll be back to normal before you know it.

 

[Makavide]

I did not say that. I said, if everyone else is using the Bible than why does this guy think he can use another book. Use the flag, I don't care, but he shouldn't get to use whatever he wants to use to take his oath of office. Like I said, I believe in the Bible, but I'm not forcing anyone else to my beliefs. It's called free will.

Everyone else is not using the Bible, the article (which is someone's opinion) implies everyone uses the Bible. Some do, some have used the Torah, some have used nothing. It is all based on personal preferences when taking the oath of office. When I took my oath of enlistment - guess what - no Bible. Didn't make it any less meaningful, still felt obligated to live up to the words to the best of my ability. If I had a Bible, I may of used it because yes I do believe in it. But I would have had no objections if the guy next to me used a Torah, a Qur'an, or a whatever

I completely and totally understand Vince's point of view in this situation. For someone of another culture to use a representation of their religion over the Bible for the purpose of affirming an oath of office seems a little offensive or, perhaps, disturbing given the fact that he is Muslim and all the criminal connotations that seem to go along with that religion these days. Personally, I believe in the Bible and what it says and wouldn't dream of taking an oath upon anything but.

My understanding is that the congressmen elect in question is an American citizen (I beleive that is a requirement still), thus his is an american culture, so how is he of "another culture".

And there is the fear - he is a Muslim, he must be a criminal.

 

[AK-74me]

And there is the fear - he is a Muslim, he must be a criminal.

Why shouldn't there be fear, Keith Ellison was once a member of NOI, and was known as Keith Hakim.

He may not be a criminal but seeing his so called beliefs of before and his ties to the Nation of Islam...............

Not to mention CAIR.

 

[Merlin99]

I did not say that. I said, if everyone else is using the Bible than why does this guy think he can use another book. Use the flag, I don't care, but he shouldn't get to use whatever he wants to use to take his oath of office. Like I said, I believe in the Bible, but I'm not forcing anyone else to my beliefs. It's called free will.

I have to disagree with you, since there is no legal requirement that a bible be used, and he feels more morally bound to perform his duties well by swearing on his own holy scripture, then I cannot see any reason to not allow it

 

[truby20]

Funny how none of this matters anyway, that Conservative Radio Host who originally wrote this story is a liar.

From Think Progress:

But Prager’s column is based on one other glaring error: the swearing-in ceremony for the House of Representatives never includes a religious book. The Office of the House Clerk confirmed to ThinkProgress that the swearing-in ceremony consists only of the Members raising their right hands and swearing to uphold the Constitution. The Clerk spokesperson said neither the Christian Bible, nor any other religious text, had ever been used in an official capacity during the ceremony.

 

[edinsomd]

I swore this oath several times:
"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."
Each time I never saw so much as Blue Jacket's Manual in the vicinity. The last time I raised my right hand and said those words was between the TACCO and Nav stations on an in-flight P-3, the only Good Book nearby being a NATOPS in my helmet bag. The oath didn't seem to specify Christian, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, or FSM, either.
Ed

 

[Vince]

I swore this oath several times:
"I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC; THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS AND THE UNIFORM CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE. SO HELP ME GOD."
Each time I never saw so much as Blue Jacket's Manual in the vicinity. The last time I raised my right hand and said those words was between the TACCO and Nav stations on an in-flight P-3, the only Good Book nearby being a NATOPS in my helmet bag. The oath didn't seem to specify Christian, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, or FSM, either.
Ed

A little rewording for the Congressman and I like it!

 

[Kyle]

.... To force a Muslim to put their hand on the Bible and take an oath would be no different from making a Christian place his hands on Chronicles of Zurg, and to utter the phrase "So help me Zurg" and expect it to give us a warm fuzzy.
....

Don't be diss'n Zurg!

 

[Kyle]

I would prefer every politician swear their oath to doing their ####ing job, obeying the written intent of the constitution, conducting themselves morally and ethically... Upon penalty of the public activating the explosive charge implanted in their skull.

There could be a web page with a "Click Here To Pop The Weasel" button.

A reasonable condition of winning an election.

 

[Kerad]

 

[Vince]

I think somebody likes me. They sent me karma, but wanted to remain anonymous.

Who didn't see this com... 12-01-2006 06:48 PM retarded ignorant pos

 

[ylexot]

I think somebody likes me. They sent me karma, but wanted to remain anonymous.

Who didn't see this com... 12-01-2006 06:48 PM retarded ignorant pos

That looks like a slaphappy comment to me :shrug: Was it green or gray?

 

[Vince]

That looks like a slaphappy comment to me :shrug: Was it green or gray?

Gray.

 

[AK-74me]

Gray.

I have got that exact same gray comment twice last 2 days, lol.

 

[PJay]

The Head of the Catholic Church is calling for EXACTLY what you were worried a Muslim would try to do, where is you Outrage?

Where is your outrage towards Islam? This question comes from someone who does not worship the Pope.

There are countless threads in this forum on the subject but you never post your concerns there. Are you saying you are looking forward to the day Islam rules this nation? Do you want to live under Sharia? If not, you really need to open your eyes to the biggest threat facing this nation today.

 

[Thor]

Won't take his oath on the Bible and is demanding the Koran.

Read it here

Wow I don't know what to say, that was one of the most f#cked up articals I have read in a long time.

So basically what it says is no matter what you believe you MUST swear an oath on the Christian bible. That's just as bad as some Muslim countries.

When I was in school i pledged my allegiance to the flag, when I was in the military I took an oath to defend the Constitution, I took a similar oath when I went to work for the Fed as a civilian. No where in there did I swear allegiance to the Christian bible.

You want me to swear on a bible, whatever, I might as well be swearing on a telephone book. The act of making the oath in ones heart is what counts. What is the book there for anyway; some sort of thinly vialed threat that if you don't carry out your oath the god of this book will smite you?

I think the religious folks in this country are a little full of themselves.