PsyOps
Pixelated
You sure went through some extra steps to make sure that word passed the filters. I hope you mentioned this in confession.
Why Catholics Honor Mary The Mother of God
- Thread starter Radiant1
- Start date
You sure went through some extra steps to make sure that word passed the filters. I hope you mentioned this in confession.
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Catholicism isn't the only "valid" Christian Church. It just happens to be the one with the fullness of truth, and all others are subject to it by nature of it's inception by Christ. If your personal interpretation doesn't fit, that doesn't mean a scripture verse or verses is rejected. It simply means you interpret the scripture differently. In addition, scripture is a source, but not the only source. You haven't been paying much attention have you. Perhaps only what you want to see/hear, eh?
I called that how I saw it, Starman slinging SHIT. My conscience dictates what I will confess, not you. If you don't like it go cry to Vrai, or perhaps pray to God for forgiveness for quoting and thereby repeating it?
C'mon Psy, R1 (and all the Catholics here) put up with an awful lot from SM and IS as they relentlessly attack what we hold sacred. Sometimes it seems that nothing else will do other than the strongest terms to get our point across.
Never once have any of the Catholics said that "your Jesus" was not the real Jesus, etc. We have not incessantly repeated that you have all been blinded by Fundamentalist doctrines, etc.
Most of the time you, Zguy and one or two others have good discussions with us, each challenging and responding. You, Zguy, R1 and I have also been, perhaps, a bit disrepectful a few times, but it's like...2% of the total communication; whereas SM and IS are in constant attack mode towards Catholics.
Maybe I'm extra aware of it because it's my faith being attacked, or perhaps you are less aware of it because your faith is not being attacked. Either way, everyone here should be as measured with their words and their approaches as they can be, with the utmost charity and humilty.
Starman3000m
New Member
Scripture calls upon believers to warn and lead others out of deceptive teachings that do not agree with the teachings of God's Plan of Salvation through the New Testament Jesus Christ.
One Mediator: (Not Two)
The Holy Bible proclaims that there is only ONE Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5)and that is Jesus Christ the Son of The Living God and resurrected Saviour of mankind.
Mary cannot "mediate" on your behalf as you have been led to believe by the RCC. There is Only ONE Mediator!
Three in Heaven: (Not Four or more!)
For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are ONE. (1 John 5:7)
Contrary to what the RCC teaches and has led you to believe, Mary is NOT in Heaven assisting Jesus in the Salvation and Redemption of souls nor are the "patron saints" there to be acting as spiritual guides that you can call upon through prayers and petitions.
There Is Only One Truth (John 14:6)
PsyOps
Pixelated
Catholicism isn't the only "valid" Christian Church. It just happens to be the one with the fullness of truth, and all others are subject to it by nature of it's inception by Christ. If your personal interpretation doesn't fit, that doesn't mean a scripture verse or verses is rejected. It simply means you interpret the scripture differently. In addition, scripture is a source, but not the only source. You haven't been paying much attention have you. Perhaps only what you want to see/hear, eh?
I called that how I saw it, Starman slinging SHIT. My conscience dictates what I will confess, not you. If you don't like it go cry to Vrai, or perhaps pray to God for forgiveness for quoting and thereby repeating it?
No, I haven’t been paying attention. I’ve just been aimlessly roaming the forums casting aspersions and demeaning people for my own entertainment.
……………Really?And, apparently I was wrong about you, I guess you have no intention of maintaining civil discourse……………………. Either!
But since you seem to be paying attention, read the Acts chapter 9 and you’ll notice a Church called “The Way”. THAT is the first establish Christian Church. It was not established in Rome, it was established in the region of Damascus, in Syria. Although their following was spread all over the mid east, the movement hadn’t reached Rome yet.
And for the record:
hvp05
Methodically disorganized
Conversely, the point that has repeatedly been made to you but that you have failed to accept is that you are not convincing anyone to join you; if anything, you make things more difficult because you are annoyingly stubborn.
Your personal interpretation of that directive makes you think it is okay to relentlessly assail people with certain points ad nauseum, when really it's not.
Alas, I know you - again - will not get it.
PsyOps
Pixelated
I've decided not to engage them in any deep discussion for that very reason. I have had my battles with them and their contentious tone. But I've never seen any foul language come from them either. Not that it matters... I try very hard to remain respectful and stay with the topic rather than get dragged into the gutter. I was just a bit surprised to see that from R1.
So.............. Yes!
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Radiant1
Soul Probe
I'll repeat...the Catholic Church wasn't established in Rome, it was established in Jerusalem. If you claim "The Way" in Damascus was the first established church then you have some logical dilemmas (or so it seems to me)...
If "The Way" is something separate and other than what we now call the Catholic Church, then what happened to it? Where did it go? Why is there no recorded history of it? (If you claim that it was dissolved, forgotten about, persecuted into oblivion, whatever, then you claim that the gates of hell DID prevail against the church regardless of what Jesus said in Matthew 16.) Since in Acts 9 Paul then went to Jerusalem to seek out the apostles, does that mean the first church established in Damascus DID NOT include the apostles?
PsyOps
Pixelated
I stated that the church (The Way) was spread out all over the mid east. It’s core following was in Syria.
I think it’s easy to conclude that the 7 Churches in Revelation are what could be considered the body of Christ; multi-denominational churches that cover a wide variety of ideologies and practices. But Jesus said He would establish His church on the Rock known as Peter. Peter led that first CHURCH (The Way) as Jesus’ first established church. What happened to this church? It doesn’t say. But I think it’s easy to conclude that it became many churches throughout the mid-east and Rome, and eventually the world. There is nothing in the bible that supports the first (and in some peoples’ minds – ONLY) Church as being the Roman Catholic Church. Certainly there is some historical relevance to support that thinking; but this discounts the 7 Churches mentioned in Revelation.
Radiant1
Soul Probe
Revelations is allegory upon allegory, but even so, what makes you think they were "multi-denominational"? Even today there are various rites within the Catholic faith.*
Look, I know you probably don't want to admit that the Catholic Church was the one founded by Christ; however, there is both biblical and historical evidence for it. And again, there is no historical evidence for another. The reality is what it is. :shrug:
*It's a misnomer to call the Church "Roman Catholic" for the "Roman Catholic Church" doesn't exist. The Catholic Church does, specifically with a Latin rite amongst others.
BTW...
Be careful, someone might accuse you of slander.
Squawk!
Attachments
Bavarian
New Member
The Church founded by Christ and born on Pentecost in Jerusalem is the One, True Church. She moved her headquarters to Rome as Rome was the capital of the Civilized World at that time. The Eastern Orthodox schism coincided with the split of the Roman Empire.
The multitude of new denominations started with Martin Luther and has spiraling out ever since. But The Catholic Church was the one established by Christ and he made St. Peter the first Pope, and gave the Catholic Church the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
I see some of you think no one has made it to Heaven yet? Where are they?
The multitude of new denominations started with Martin Luther and has spiraling out ever since. But The Catholic Church was the one established by Christ and he made St. Peter the first Pope, and gave the Catholic Church the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.
I see some of you think no one has made it to Heaven yet? Where are they?
PsyOps
Pixelated
It is my belief that they are of different ideologies since they are in different countries with different cultures. I have no proof of this, not anymore proof that you have that the CC is the original church. It’s not that I don’t want to admit it; I don’t believe it to be so. The Gospel got dispersed throughout the region very quickly and churches were going up all over the place. And quite honestly I don’t see what claiming the CC is the original church of Christ and THE ONE TRUE church has to do with anything except to stake claim that everyone else has it wrong and Catholics have it right.
BTW...
Be careful, someone might accuse you of slander.
I was quoting Toxic. I do that to show how stupid and juvenile it looks. Of course I know that message will go ignored. If you want to use choice words, by all means do so. I think it shows poor use of the language by people that are far more intelligent than that.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Maybe you should learn from that, Libby? I've not heard any Catholics defend God's Word on here. Only their OWN doctrines over God's....
Should we just tolerate your false doctrines then? Did Jesus do that? You might want to take these things to heart and see WHY we're in "attack mode" soo often with you folks. It's amazing how you see them as "attacks". I guess doctors "attack" you when they try to fix your ailments? I guess your parents "attacked" you when they tried to teach you through discipline? I'll repeat Paul so you can see our purpose:libby said:
16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth? Those people are zealous to win you over, but for no good. What they want is to alienate you from us, so that you may be zealous for them. It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good..." (Galatians 4)
Who does???
People of "The Way" were later called Christians at Antioch, not Catholics...and the Christian church is still alive today, though it's membership is low. The RCC began around 325AD, through Constantine, part godly & part pagan and is not doing well today...(spiritually).
alert No surprise here though...
Radiant1
Soul Probe
By all means feel free to believe what you wish; however, I think you'd be believing it for the wrong reasons. The evidence that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ has been presented numerous times on this forum.
It's not so much a matter of right or wrong, but more a matter of fullness of truth. It's kind of like you working with one screwdriver when you really could use a ratchet set, ya know? Protestant (partial), Catholic (universal). The Protestant Reformers threw out the baby with the bathwater.
I think what you are having a problem with is the word or term "Catholic". The term "Catholic Church" was first used historically in circa 107 AD by Irenaeus and it is implied by his writings that the term was already understood so therefore in use.
DURP DURP! Catholics ARE Christians. The first Christians.
PEOPLE were called Christians, THE CHURCH was called simply "The Church" or "Catholic Church". (See above regarding Irenaeus.)
Troll much? If you say it enough, someone somewhere might believe you, right?
PsyOps
Pixelated
And not one piece of evidence has convinced me the CC is the first Christian church and certainly not THE CHURCH and all others are false.
It’s dogmatic paradigms that cause you to believe the Protestant denominations are less than the CC. But I’m curious, what exactly did Protestants do to throw the baby out?
Strange you cite the term ‘Catholic’ was used 100 years after Christ died yet the term is never found in the bible, but the term ‘Christian’ is found in Acts 11:26 first used in Antioch (again, not Rome) specifically referring to those believing in Christ. It is thought-of today as a generic term to mean all those who believe in Christ. Back then it was specific to THE ORIGINAL Christian Church – The Way.
DURP DURP (whatever that means)… I never asserted Catholics weren’t Christian, but certainly not the first. And certainly not the only. You ignore the first Christians 100 years prior to Irenaeus. What were they called? Where were the Catholics then?
Radiant1
Soul Probe
I don't care if you're convinced; I am. Nobody is saying yours is false, just saying it doesn't contain the fullness of truth.
It's not "dogmatic paradigms" as much as it is logic.
Instead of reforming, they revolted and did away with a deposit of faith that now leaves them devoid of the fullness of truth. You miss a heck of a lot, Psy.
I disagree. Christian in reference to PEOPLE (who were also called Nazarenes), not the church Christ founded. The Church was called "The Way" and "CATHOLIC". Good grief man, it's not that hard to understand.
If you claim that The Way is not Catholic, then where did The Way go? What happened to it? I asked you this a couple posts ago and you gave me no evidence except what you believe without a why you believe it. :shrug:
I wasn't responding to you, Psy. Apparently you respond before reading carefully, eh?
At any rate, Catholics were those Christians, not only the first 100 years but the first 1500 years.
Really, aren't you tired of going around in circles? I am. I've made my points. You're either capable of understanding, or you're not. :shrug:
bohman
Well-Known Member
Nice. Now I remember why it's been at least five years since I've ventured into the religion forums. I asked a polite question, and it took less than two hours to be called a plant because I used a generic term for Mass. I'll give you points for originality, at least - the plant thing is a first for me.
It never ceases to amaze me that those who most loudly proclaim that they are gathering people into the faith, are the very ones who most quickly repel people.
I'll see myself out. Have a nice day.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Well, you should care
……………….. This sounds like doublespeak. You claim my beliefs don’t ‘contain the fullness of truth’ while also saying ‘Nobody is saying yours is false’. Perhaps you should clarify what it means “doesn't contain the fullness of truth”. And Bav IS saying my beliefs are false.
The belief that the CC is THE first Christian church has been conveyed to people for a long time. The old “tell someone something often enough and long enough and they’ll begin to believe it, regardless of the facts” is the paradigm. I’ve given you verses from the source that we use (the bible) that shows what the first church was, over 100 years before the CC. Not sure what else there is to say about it. :shrug:
I’m not missing anything except what this ‘fullness of truth’ you claim to be blessed with that I’m not. Do we not have the same Christ? Is the bible not our same source for understanding this Christ? I suspect the only thing I’m missing is the fact that I refuse to recognize what you do, and somehow that deprives me of some deeper truth. I assure you, this is not possible.
I thought I said that The Way dispersed to many factions or denominations as mentioned in Acts. But there is no biblical evidence that The Way was renamed or became the CC.
I’ve given you the exact verses and words that show the name of the first church of Christ. Now, please point to the verse/s that has the term “Catholic” in it and I will concede.
I still don’t know what “DURP DURP” means, but don’t bother. I really don’t care. I intend to keep this respectable. If it makes you feel better, continue with your meaningless jabs and attempts to belittle me. It’s a poor substitute for the facts that you lack.
I never get tired. It’s interesting and keeps me thinking. I am capable of a lot of things. If you’ve decided I’m incapable of grasping your points because I disagree with them, then you don’t understand the meaning of debate. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t mean I don’t understand it.