Why Catholics Honor Mary The Mother of God

[PsyOps]

Good grief man. You stated you liked the discussion and asked me questions only to turn around and dismiss the logic.

I’m not dismissing it. As you've complained, you've repeated it over and over. No sense in making you repeat it again. The replies were just getting too long.

Look, it's this simple. You don't have the fullness of truth.

You are absolutely wrong about this. I have the fullness of the truth of Jesus. You don’t know what’s in my heart and can’t possibly state that because I’m not Catholic it’s impossible to have this ‘fullness of truth’.

Not once have you heard me say you aren't saved or will be going to hell.

And that’s what I remembered you stating. I wasn’t assuming, but I was confirming. But having talked to a lot of Catholics, and had these same discussions with them, it’s apparent to me that it’s the conventional thinking within the CC that if you aren’t Catholic and follow its tenets, you are not saved.

What was the point in my entering this discussion? To prove to you that

1) Catholics are Christians, we were the first Christians.
Disagree.
2) Christ did establish a church because He didn't want us to rely on the bible alone.
Yes about the Church, no about the bible. It’s the original source that all other knowledge we have about the Gospel and God are derived.
3) Fullness of truth is important, for without it you miss out on a lot of what is the mystery of Christ.
Disagree.
4) Without the Catholic Church you would have never heard of Jesus Christ to begin with.
Absolutely disagree. Your church lineage claims to go back to Peter. The other apostles were very busy spreading the Gospel through Europe, Asia, and Africa. If Peter had died the day after Jesus, the Gospel would have still reached the rest of the world.

Btw, Psy, did you know that Catholicism accepts the baptism of other denominations as long as it was done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Okay.

 

[Radiant1]

You are absolutely wrong about this. I have the fullness of the truth of Jesus. You don’t know what’s in my heart and can’t possibly state that because I’m not Catholic it’s impossible to have this ‘fullness of truth’.

No, I wouldn't purport to know what is in your heart; however, I can surmise that because you are not Catholic and reject certain Catholic doctrines that you cannot possibly explore the fullness of the mystery of Christ.

1) Catholics are Christians, we were the first Christians.
Disagree.

You can ignore the evidence all you wish. Suit yourself and live in your alternative reality I guess.

2) Christ did establish a church because He didn't want us to rely on the bible alone.
Yes about the Church, no about the bible. It’s the original source that all other knowledge we have about the Gospel and God are derived.

No it's not, sacred tradition is a deposit of faith. I think I already explained to you that without it you wouldn't even have the bible, and the bible itself does not say to rely on it alone.

3) Fullness of truth is important, for without it you miss out on a lot of what is the mystery of Christ.
Disagree.

See above.

4) Without the Catholic Church you would have never heard of Jesus Christ to begin with.
Absolutely disagree. Your church lineage claims to go back to Peter. The other apostles were very busy spreading the Gospel through Europe, Asia, and Africa. If Peter had died the day after Jesus, the Gospel would have still reached the rest of the world.

It's not Peter alone, it's all the apostles. Remember John to Polycarp to Ireneaus (a bishop in Gaul, btw)?

What did you say about incapable and unwilling? Either you're incapable of understanding the logic, or unwilling to. Either/or take your pick. :sigh:

Til next time.

 

[ItalianScallion]

The evidence that the Catholic Church is the one founded by Christ has been presented numerous times on this forum.
It's not so much a matter of right or wrong, but more a matter of fullness of truth.

It can't be the one founded by Christ. Too many contradictions...
If it's: "not a matter of right or wrong", then there's no "fullness of truth."

DURP DURP! Catholics ARE Christians. The first Christians. PEOPLE were called Christians, THE CHURCH was called simply "The Church" or "Catholic Church".

PRUD PRUD! You have it backwards so I figured that I'd....nevermind.
The first Christians were called the "Way" then later called Christians at Antioch because they followed Christ.

Not all people in ANY denomination are Christians and nowhere does the Bible use Catholic or universal. If it did, you'd have a case for it. If the concept was there, even I'd believe it.

You are absolutely wrong about this. I have the fullness of the truth of Jesus. You don’t know what’s in my heart and can’t possibly state that because I’m not Catholic it’s impossible to have this ‘fullness of truth’.

Did you say she was "absolutely wrong"?? How condescendingly arrogant of you! Geez; now I have competition! J/K

You’re saying the 7 churches mentioned in Revelation are Catholic Churches?

They must have been because God was pi$$ed at all of them...

No, I wouldn't purport to know what is in your heart; however, I can surmise that because you are not Catholic and reject certain Catholic doctrines that you cannot possibly explore the fullness of the mystery of Christ.

But I can explore them, right?

You can ignore the evidence all you wish. Suit yourself and live in your alternative reality I guess.

You're doing it, so why can't he? Besides, there ain't any evidence...:shrug:

No it's not, sacred tradition is a deposit of faith. I think I already explained to you that without it you wouldn't even have the bible, and the bible itself does not say to rely on it alone.

Can the deposit be in cash or check form? Do they take Master Card?
Oh, but the Bible DOES say that. You just refuse to believe it...

 

[PsyOps]

No, I wouldn't purport to know what is in your heart; however, I can surmise that because you are not Catholic and reject certain Catholic doctrines that you cannot possibly explore the fullness of the mystery of Christ.

This is utter nonsense. This is like saying if you don’t drive a Chevy (vs. a Ford) you can’t possibly get the complete driving experience. It's not the car, it's your attitude and heart that gives you that experience. It’s not the Church that provides the “fullness of the mystery of Christ”, it’s what’s in the heart and your honest desire to seek the truth about God. How many priests used their positions to abuse children and commit heinous crimes against innocent kids? Certainly this happens in every denomination, but the point is, it doesn’t matter what church you belong to, if your heart is not in the right place you will deprive yourself the truth. And by asserting that the CC has THE answers to this, where other churches don’t, is arrogant at best and ignores how the CC has failed to even solidify this in their leadership. If your church had this “fullness of the mystery of Christ”, how do you explain these priests that missed it? I would think this fullness would be infallibly instilled in your priests where they would not go astray.

No it's not, sacred tradition is a deposit of faith. I think I already explained to you that without it you wouldn't even have the bible, and the bible itself does not say to rely on it alone.

This is just silly. Without Christ we wouldn’t have a NT bible. That much is obvious. But your “sacred tradition” doesn’t exist without Christ either. But we know nothing about Christ without this documentation. Passing things on by word-of-mouth the message gets lost and distorted. But the documented Word remains the same; it sets the standard. Why do you think God told John to write down what he sees in Revelation rather than just pass it on by mouth? God knew the WRITTEN Word would remain stable while the oral Word would falter.

On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” – Revelation 1:10-11

It's not Peter alone, it's all the apostles. Remember John to Polycarp to Ireneaus (a bishop in Gaul, btw)?

What did you say about incapable and unwilling? Either you're incapable of understanding the logic, or unwilling to. Either/or take your pick. :sigh:

Til next time.

No, your Pope lineage claims to stem from Peter. Your church is centered around that. Please give me the line from Matthew, Andrew, James, etc... and and how it directly relates to your church.

I am unwilling to accept your claims. I understand your claims enough to know that much of what you claim is not biblical and I have pointed that out. I could cite a lot of what the CC practices and challenge them biblically, but I don’t want to come across as disparaging your church. That’s not my desire. I believe the CC has brought millions to God. The CC has done a lot of good over the centuries. We can’t have this discussion without recognizing that. So beating you up on the practices and traditions of the CC should be reserved for a different thread; which I think has already been done a dozen times.

 

[Zguy28]

It's not Peter alone, it's all the apostles. Remember John to Polycarp to Ireneaus (a bishop in Gaul, btw)?

Were Polycarp (bless his martyred soul) or Ireneaus inerrant in their writings like John?