Fire Dept. Tanker Truck Rolls Over in Calvert Sat. a.m.

[officeguy]

The Southern County's should have gone to a paid fire department decades ago and put this driving with " Your Hair on Fire " to sleep forever.

I disagree on that point. Did the math a while ago on what we pay for fire protection in SoMD vs. counties with career departments. We are getting a great deal with the volunteer system and as long as there are people willing to spend a night at the firehouse to help their neighbors, it would be foolish to go to a career system. We are not california (the state) where money grows on nut-trees and 30min drive time to a fire is acceptable because the career departments are stretched so thin. The system here works reasonably well and we shouldn't pour out the kid with the bathwater just because some volunteers are a bit over-eager.

What we need is vehicle recorders on the firetrucks and command staff willing to review tapes and act if unsafe behavior is observed.

 

[Bird Dog]

Prince George's County fiscal 2017 fire dept buget $180,000,000.00
Does not take into effect any pension payments to capital outlays....

 

[This_person]

We are getting a great deal with the volunteer system

I'm not convinced of this. We in St. Mary's have to have a special recruiter in the county just for fire/EMS, separate from the recruiters for all other county positions. We give $3K off of taxes.

Wouldn't you rather have people who are so in love with fighting fires that they made it a career, not a hobby?

 

[Bann]

It takes a while for an investigation to be done and for facts to come out.

***UPDATE*** Press Release for Dunkirk VFD Tanker Accident
Calvert County Sheriff's Office·Saturday, March 18, 2017

***Lieutenant Marty Sealey has been released from the hospital and is home recovering. Lieutenant John Faulkner, Jr. is expected to be released from the hospital later this evening.***

On March 18, 2017 at approximately 8:10 a.m. members of the Calvert County Sheriff’s Office and Crash Reconstruction Team responded to Robinson Road in Huntingtown, Maryland for a report of an overturned fire department tanker truck.

It was learned that Dunkirk Volunteer Fire Department Tanker 5 overturned while responding to 3725 Robinson Road in Huntingtown for a residential structure fire. Lieutenant Marty Sealey was operating the tanker at the time of the crash. Lieutenant John Faulkner Jr. also occupied the tanker at the time of the crash. Lt. Sealey was transported by MSP Trooper 2 to MedStar in Washington, D.C. He has been listed in critical but stable condition. Lt. Faulkner was initially transported to Calvert Memorial Hospital. However, he has subsequently been transferred to MedStar in Washington, D.C., where he is also listed in critical but stable condition.

A preliminary investigation revealed that that as Tanker 5 was progressing through a curve on Robinson Road a tire failure, with a “blowout” and full tread separation, occurred. At this time the investigation into the cause of tire failure is ongoing; however, it is apparent that the tire failure is a factor that significantly contributed to this collision. Tanker 5 was en-route to the fire ground and was fully loaded at the time of the rollover. Tanker 5 is capable of carrying 3000 gallons of water.

Calvert County Sheriff’s Office Crash Reconstruction Team is conducting an investigation into the exact cause of the tire failure and the collision. Sgt. V. Bortchevsky of CRT is assigned this investigation.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/calv...-dunkirk-vfd-tanker-accident/1441621175880368

 

[officeguy]

I'm not convinced of this. We in St. Mary's have to have a special recruiter in the county just for fire/EMS, separate from the recruiters for all other county positions.

That volunteer coordinator costs the county less than a single career firefighter. Above someone mentioned '50k' for a career FF which is a fraction of the actual expense after salary, health insurance, pension and disability. I would have to dig into the PG, AA and MoCo budget, but I would expect that the 'loaded' cost for a career FF in this area is closer to 100k. Also, remember, career means that people get civil service steps and those incomes go up over time.

We give $3K off of taxes.

Someone correct me, but as I read it, we give volunteers the opportunity to take 3k off their maryland adjusted gross income, not their tax obligation. That's worth 150 bucks on a good day.

Volunteers are not 'free' to the state. They have to be equipped, there is the small tax deduction and a small pension contribution for those who volunteer for something like 20 years. Also, there are insurance expenses etc. The volunteer training at MFRI is being paid out of the $13 surcharge on car registrations (along with MSP aviation command). Everything together is still a fraction of the cost of a career FF.

Wouldn't you rather have people who are so in love with fighting fires that they made it a career, not a hobby?

Not really. I prefer to go by objective data. What I see are very good response times for a rural area and really no indication that the volunteers in the area are not doing a good job. They invest a lot of their time into training and most stations are busy enough that the FFs remain proficient at their job. It is way more than a hobby for most.

Going to a career fire service would be a huge investment. All those snazzy firehouses: worthless for a career department. The current network of stations exists based on historical growth of the area, not because someone mapped out call volumes and travel times and found the most optimal location for the stations. I believe SMC has 6 companies right now, a career department would probably have to make do with 3 or 4 for purely fiscal reasons. Those stations would have to be newly built and equipped. If you want to see the county portion of your tax bill bloat to the same level as the school district portion, go ahead and get a career department.

 

[BernieP]

a rear retread separating will never cause that under NORMAL driving conditions.

and it does look like that one rear tire is a little smaller than the rest.

 

[Bann]

 

[Bann]

https://www.dunkirk5.com/apps/public/news/newsView.cfm?News_ID=66

 

[BernieP]

I'm not convinced of this. We in St. Mary's have to have a special recruiter in the county just for fire/EMS, separate from the recruiters for all other county positions. We give $3K off of taxes.

Wouldn't you rather have people who are so in love with fighting fires that they made it a career, not a hobby?

we could not afford it. You might be able to afford a couple of drivers to be ready at all times, but county couldn't cover the cost of a multiple shifts of just a driver for all the fire departments in the county.
When we have the population and population density of a PG county, then maybe we can afford full time, paid, firefighters.

 

[Bann]

From the Southern MD Weather News FB page:

LOCAL CALVERT COUNTY FIREFIGHTER CONTACTS SOMDWXNEWS REGARDING ALL THE PUBLICS SPECULATION OF DUNKIRK'S TANKER 5 OVERTURNING SATURDAY MORNING. #PLEASEREAD

I would like to make an update to yesterdays accident involving Dunkirk fire departments tanker, as a fellow emergency vehicle driver for over 30 years i can say and the Calvert County Sheriffs department press release has already stated. That this was a freak accident as a result of a tire blow out on the vehicle. The driver is a veteran driver with over 1000 hours driving that particular vehicle and is the safest driver i know But when hauling 3000 gallons of water if the vehicle weight shifts as a result of loosing traction, the vehicle is going to do what ever it wants to do and you will have no control of it. Speed was not a factor, instead of us all speculating how it happend lets show our support and prayers for those involved.

SOMDWXNEWS Thanks Him for his time, his service and his special post he put together for us.




https://www.facebook.com/SouthernMDWxNews/photos/pcb.746938112141416/746936435474917/?type=3

 

[TimTheToolMan]

Wouldn't you rather have people who are so in love with fighting fires that they made it a career, not a hobby?

You do realize that many of the one's who do make a career out of fire fighting and EMS also volunteer in their spare time, right?

 

[Bann]

You do realize that many of the one's who do make a career out of fire fighting and EMS also volunteer in their spare time, right?

A LOT of them do.

 

[officeguy]

When we have the population and population density of a PG county, then maybe we can afford full time, paid, firefighters.

Who says PG county can afford their fire department ;-)

They are stretched thin enough that mutual aid units from bordering counties have to respond into PG on both fire and EMS calls.

 

[officeguy]

You do realize that many of the one's who do make a career out of fire fighting and EMS also volunteer in their spare time, right?

And in the reverse, many of the younger members who run calls fully intend to make firefighting a career. Some of them are just waiting for test dates with the career departments to open up while they collect experience and credentials to strengthen their applications.

 

[Bann]

And in the reverse, many of the younger members who run calls fully intend to make firefighting a career. Some of them are just waiting for test dates with the career departments to open up while they collect experience and credentials to strengthen their applications.

 

[TimTheToolMan]

And in the reverse, many of the younger members who run calls fully intend to make firefighting a career. Some of them are just waiting for test dates with the career departments to open up while they collect experience and credentials to strengthen their applications.

Exactly, without their Volunteer experience, they wouldn't have their career!

 

[black dog]

Hi

What makes paid personnel safer?
I know the Unions say it is so....but they suck the County coffers dry......the expense of that accident wouldn't touch the pension of five Union personnel .........

Don't you find it queer that all the Southern County's have a Volunteer Fire Dept but yet we don't have volunteer Teachers, Policeman, Water Dept, Street Dept, Library, Court, Bus and dozens of other County jobs that all county's can and do afford.
To think that Calvert, Charles and St Mary's don't have the needed tax base to provide paid Fireman is laughable at best.

I grew up in Montgomery Co and we had paid Fire Depts but we also had BCC Rescue Service that was Volunteer, in the decades I live there I don't ever recall the paid fireman flipping trucks over.
But I recall a monster BCC Rescue truck blowing a red light on Old Georgetown Rd that hit two cars and one Woman driver died.
I watched it happen as a junior HS kid.
The township I live in in Indiana has paid Fireman, the building is nice and modern along with the equipment stored inside.
The average resident property tax bill here is 4 to 600 dollars a year. I own a building that used to be a three bay garage service station, it's taxes are alittle over 800 bucks a year.
We have nowhere near the revenue in the township I live in when compared just to St Marys much less Calvert or P.G.
Maybe these county's need along with the Fire Trucks to Throttle Back on the spending and speeding and hire more responsible people to run the Fire Department.

 

[littlelady]

All I know is that I am thankful for our FD, EMT, LEO, etc. They are the line between handling it, and chaos. I don't get why this thread has become so critical, and condescending. I won't question anything if I ever have to call 911, and they show up. So far, I haven't had to call 911, but it could happen. Thank you to all that choose to serve their community.

Oh, and yeah, it was an accident. Prayers to the guys who were injured. Nite, nite.

 

[Bann]

Hi

Don't you find it queer that all the Southern County's have a Volunteer Fire Dept but yet we don't have volunteer Teachers, Policeman, Water Dept, Street Dept, Library, Court, Bus and dozens of other County jobs that all county's can and do afford.
To think that Calvert, Charles and St Mary's don't have the needed tax base to provide paid Fireman is laughable at best.

I grew up in Montgomery Co and we had paid Fire Depts but we also had BCC Rescue Service that was Volunteer, in the decades I live there I don't ever recall the paid fireman flipping trucks over.
But I recall a monster BCC Rescue truck blowing a red light on Old Georgetown Rd that hit two cars and one Woman driver died.
I watched it happen as a junior HS kid.
The township I live in in Indiana has paid Fireman, the building is nice and modern along with the equipment stored inside.
The average resident property tax bill here is 4 to 600 dollars a year. I own a building that used to be a three bay garage service station, it's taxes are alittle over 800 bucks a year.
We have nowhere near the revenue in the township I live in when compared just to St Marys much less Calvert or P.G.
Maybe these county's need along with the Fire Trucks to Throttle Back on the spending and speeding and hire more responsible people to run the Fire Department.

Have you ever visited one of the firehouses in any of the counties? Do you know any of the volunteers who drive these vehicles? Do you know for a fact any of the experience any of them have?

I do. I know personally. I live in PF and know personally more than a couple.

Check out the press release from the Sheriff's office and the posts I made. The expererience of the Dunkirk FD driver is noted. How do you know he isn't a resposible person?

 

[This_person]

That volunteer coordinator costs the county less than a single career firefighter.

Agreed, but it is an additional cost that people think doesn't happen.

Someone correct me, but as I read it, we give volunteers the opportunity to take 3k off their maryland adjusted gross income, not their tax obligation. That's worth 150 bucks on a good day.

Average tax rate is 24%. 24% of $3,000 is $720. Plus pension, etc.

Volunteers are not 'free' to the state. They have to be equipped, there is the small tax deduction and a small pension contribution for those who volunteer for something like 20 years. Also, there are insurance expenses etc. The volunteer training at MFRI is being paid out of the $13 surcharge on car registrations (along with MSP aviation command). Everything together is still a fraction of the cost of a career FF.

I agree, and you're making my point. What is the insurance difference for volunteers vs. professionals? And, how many volunteers need to be trained, equipped, insured, etc., as opposed to how many professionals you need?

I'm not suggesting the cost is less for a station or two of professional firefighters, but it may be worth the extra cost.

Not really. I prefer to go by objective data. What I see are very good response times for a rural area and really no indication that the volunteers in the area are not doing a good job. They invest a lot of their time into training and most stations are busy enough that the FFs remain proficient at their job. It is way more than a hobby for most.

It's not. It's not their job, it's something they do on the side, and don't go into if they don't feel like it or have other obligations. It is secondary to their base job, the one that pays their bills. It is a hobby, no more.

Going to a career fire service would be a huge investment. All those snazzy firehouses: worthless for a career department. The current network of stations exists based on historical growth of the area, not because someone mapped out call volumes and travel times and found the most optimal location for the stations.

You realize all of this is counter to your argument, right?

I believe SMC has 6 companies right now, a career department would probably have to make do with 3 or 4 for purely fiscal reasons. Those stations would have to be newly built and equipped. If you want to see the county portion of your tax bill bloat to the same level as the school district portion, go ahead and get a career department.

I would not go 100% professionals. Surely, the low population areas don't need it I probably would do a study to see, but would suggest off the cuff that Leonardtown and Lexington Park probably need professionals, and the rest can stay hobby firefighters.