This_person
Well-Known Member
I do. You do realize that is not the majority of volunteers, though, and not enough to change the argument, right?
Fire Dept. Tanker Truck Rolls Over in Calvert Sat. a.m.
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I do. You do realize that is not the majority of volunteers, though, and not enough to change the argument, right?
black dog
Free America
QUOTE=Bann;5751673]Have you ever visited one of the firehouses in any of the counties? Do you know any of the volunteers who drive these vehicles? Do you know for a fact any of the experience any of them have?
I do. I know personally. I live in PF and know personally more than a couple.
Check out the press release from the Sheriff's office and the posts I made. The expererience of the Dunkirk FD driver is noted. How do you know he isn't a resposible person?[/QUOTE]
Yep.. I have extended family that have and do work in that industry, one of my BIL's younger brother started in Hyattsville in the early eighties, he rolled over a hook& ladder there, he then moved to another Dept in Hyattsville and rolled a pumper truck.
He then moved to Hughsville and became treasure and borrowed funds without permission. He then moved to Mechanicsville and go tossed out and then went across the street and worked on a Ambulance for a few years, he also worked for the county in St Mary's and was caught stealing fuel from the county filling station.
I also have a few cousins that are paramedics in PG co. The story's they can tell.
How about the young man that was a volunteer at Mechanicsville FD, he died on Floria Corner Rd a few years ago while driving his personal PU truck to a call. The state police said a deer must have run out in front of him causing him to slide and bounce through the S turn on Floria before he wrapped his truck around a tree. I believe the reconstruction said he was traveling a high rate of speed. If the skid marks and the guard rail damage didn't tell a story there was still enough energy to bend his Vortac powered S10 around a tree was the rest of the story. He was hauling freight..
It was never stated that a few weeks before his Cheif had told him not to respond to calls in his personal truck because of his driving habits. He also had been fired a week before he died from his job with a local company because of numerous complaints that were called in about his driving while in a company truck. I know this because I worked there in a supervisor position at that time.
Look at the boondoggle in Dunkirk a few years ago, it goes on and on.
View attachment 117762
The truck upside down tells the world that he was driving to fast for the road conditions ,
Cars and trucks just don't flip over from haveing lost tread one of tire anywhere on that piece of equipment. If that was the case cars and trucks would litter the highway,
It's funny that when you see a 9 ft tread that came off a tractor trailer on the roadway or shoulder of the highway there would still be a truck upside down along with it. :shrug:[
But when you do see on the evening news that a truck or tanker is rolled over it's always on a curve and the truck was traveling with excessive speed, or the unsecured load sifted.
How does a load shift with a full load of water? The tank is full so there's no shift.
And if the driver was so responsible and has a 1000 hours driving that piece of equipment he certainly should be aware of it's faults and failings.
And again, as a CDL driver he should have done a precheck before driving that piece of equipment on the road, and with that there is a walk around that includes a tire check ???
How many shifts missed that tire starting to fail?
As a man that did maintenance planning and route failure analysis with Muriant for a few years, that tire starting failing before that roll over. And that tire is not the cause of that rollover. Let's remember this truck didn't roll over on its side here, it had enough energy to roll over 180°. The cause of the roll over is excessive speed, he was Fing rolling thunder and when that tread lost a chunk that truck hopped a bit and he lost control of it.
And we all know it.
I do. I know personally. I live in PF and know personally more than a couple.
Check out the press release from the Sheriff's office and the posts I made. The expererience of the Dunkirk FD driver is noted. How do you know he isn't a resposible person?[/QUOTE]
Yep.. I have extended family that have and do work in that industry, one of my BIL's younger brother started in Hyattsville in the early eighties, he rolled over a hook& ladder there, he then moved to another Dept in Hyattsville and rolled a pumper truck.
He then moved to Hughsville and became treasure and borrowed funds without permission. He then moved to Mechanicsville and go tossed out and then went across the street and worked on a Ambulance for a few years, he also worked for the county in St Mary's and was caught stealing fuel from the county filling station.
I also have a few cousins that are paramedics in PG co. The story's they can tell.
How about the young man that was a volunteer at Mechanicsville FD, he died on Floria Corner Rd a few years ago while driving his personal PU truck to a call. The state police said a deer must have run out in front of him causing him to slide and bounce through the S turn on Floria before he wrapped his truck around a tree. I believe the reconstruction said he was traveling a high rate of speed. If the skid marks and the guard rail damage didn't tell a story there was still enough energy to bend his Vortac powered S10 around a tree was the rest of the story. He was hauling freight..
It was never stated that a few weeks before his Cheif had told him not to respond to calls in his personal truck because of his driving habits. He also had been fired a week before he died from his job with a local company because of numerous complaints that were called in about his driving while in a company truck. I know this because I worked there in a supervisor position at that time.
Look at the boondoggle in Dunkirk a few years ago, it goes on and on.
View attachment 117762
The truck upside down tells the world that he was driving to fast for the road conditions ,
Cars and trucks just don't flip over from haveing lost tread one of tire anywhere on that piece of equipment. If that was the case cars and trucks would litter the highway,
It's funny that when you see a 9 ft tread that came off a tractor trailer on the roadway or shoulder of the highway there would still be a truck upside down along with it. :shrug:[
But when you do see on the evening news that a truck or tanker is rolled over it's always on a curve and the truck was traveling with excessive speed, or the unsecured load sifted.
How does a load shift with a full load of water? The tank is full so there's no shift.
And if the driver was so responsible and has a 1000 hours driving that piece of equipment he certainly should be aware of it's faults and failings.
And again, as a CDL driver he should have done a precheck before driving that piece of equipment on the road, and with that there is a walk around that includes a tire check ???
How many shifts missed that tire starting to fail?
As a man that did maintenance planning and route failure analysis with Muriant for a few years, that tire starting failing before that roll over. And that tire is not the cause of that rollover. Let's remember this truck didn't roll over on its side here, it had enough energy to roll over 180°. The cause of the roll over is excessive speed, he was Fing rolling thunder and when that tread lost a chunk that truck hopped a bit and he lost control of it.
And we all know it.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Are those re-treads on the back?
black dog
Free America
I don't know for sure, but when you look at the drive axle tires the sides of the tread are very strait exspecially when compared the the front's that have a natural curve from the tread to the sidewall. And I believe that's indication to me they are retreads.
What I also find interesting is the Calvert Reconstruction states Full Tread Separation but it sure looks like lots of tread is still attached to the tire. A full separation to me would be the tread has completely left the rest of the tire.
You obviously have more expertise than the people conducting this current investigation. I will defer to your extensive knowledge of the crash, the conditions on the scene and the qualifications of the driver, not to mention what was going on inside the truck at the time of the crash. You should call Calvert County and offer your services to assist them, since you have all the answers already.
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black dog
Free America
You obviously have more expertise than the people conducting this current investigation. I will defer to your extensive knowledge of the crash, the conditions on the scene and the qualifications of the driver, not to mention what was going on inside the truck at the time of the crash. You should call Calvert County and offer your services to assist them, since you have all the answers already.
It's funny that other than attacking me and what I post you have nothing to add that helps the carelessness of this volunteer while driving equipment that our tax dollars paid for.
I know what I see and what I have learned with the different careers i have done in my life, I also know that the thin blue and thin red lines are actually very thick and will relentlessly protect each other and this man that was driving this truck has both lines behind him.
How many patrol cars did C C Deputy Larry Insco crash in his career again? 6 or 7?
Never really heard much about that did you? That thin line again...
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Looks like retreads on the back to me. That's a LOT cheaper than new but maybe not the best for a safety vehicle. As to water load, I wonder if it was full? Swinging beef and half full tanks are about as dangerous as it gets.
black dog
Free America
I agree with what you are saying, here is a clip from CCSD website as a update from yesterday.
A preliminary investigation revealed that that as Tanker 5 was progressing through a curve on Robinson Road a tire failure, with a “blowout” and full tread separation, occurred. At this time the investigation into the cause of tire failure is ongoing; however, it is apparent that the tire failure is a factor that significantly contributed to this collision. Tanker 5 was en-route to the fire ground and was fully loaded at the time of the rollover. Tanker 5 is capable of carrying 3000 gallons of water.
Full tank of water means no wave action going on in the tank.
And even if it had some, the driver had over a 1000 hours in the driver's seat.
When he pulled out of the station house and if the water shifted his chocolate starfish would have tightened up and I would hope he would have adjusted his driving habits right then.
He himself is responsible for the safety of his load and to make certain that his truck is safe to travel the road.
In some of the other pictures of this roll over you can see that about half of the retread is hanging down the side of this truck and the tire sure looks like it's still inflated.
I firmly believe that a lack of safety inspections along with Speed and gross tonnage got him.
And with a load of what 25,000 lbs of water it's not like that tandem axle was overloaded.
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This only applies to the Maryland return. MD income tax is between 2 and 5.75%
I dont know the exact rate. I do know that on a per-capita basis, the three SoMD counties pay a fraction of what AA, MoCo and PG pay for fire protection. A career department doesn't pay 3 firefighters to man the station, they pay 12 to cover all shifts. The biggest expense in fire protection is personnel, you can equip a lot of volunteers until you get anywhere close to the cost of a career departmet.
Go run for the county commission on that platform.
You realize all of this is counter to your argument, right?
You seem to employ some of that 'democrat logic' here. In addition to the increased personnel expense, moving to a career department would also incur a large construction program. The cost would be even higher than the spitballed numbers someone put into a post further up.
That's what PG is doing. There are career stations and a handful of volunteer companies. The reason go to 'paid volunteers' or a career department is if you can't find enough volunteers to maintain staffing because the workload is so high. The Waldorf station I has a call volume somewhere over 3000 per year, that's busier than some career departments. Until last year, the only career staff were the paramedics, but they are getting to a point that they now have to hire EMTs to fill in the schedule.
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
Oh, there's no two ways about speed being a factor. The reason you have 8 tires back there is to deal with the load in event of losing one or two. Losing one isn't good and didn't help matters but it's not gonna make the thing just fall over and roll. Heck, trying to slow once he felt it was a little fast may have caused it to come apart? Maybe a car was on coming or crossed into his path and he slammed them on?
In any event, it would seem to me that retreads are penny wise and pound foolish for an emergency vehicle.
black dog
Free America
I agree, what I would love to see if there is video available and what the onboard GPS and computer data says in that last 200 yards.
I dont see this as the SD putting out an official cause. I see this 'clearly it was the tire' partyline being distributed by the fire department. We'll see what the crash reconstruction has to say about the speed of the tanker prior to the roll-over. Considering that the flank of the tire posterior to the one with the thread hanging off also looks chewed up, you have to wonder whether the thread came off when the tanker was already up on 3 wheels.
It's a bit unusual to have a thread separation on a winter day on a vehicle that has only traveled a couple of miles at that point.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
That lends itself to excess speed; the tread perhaps failed when it got loaded up for hard braking.
Breaking and turning at the same time.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Absolutely. That's what I figure.
I didn't attack you. I said your expertise in the matter is obviously greater than anyone else's involved in conducting the investigation.
black dog
Free America
And when the tread starts to separate you get that flop flop flop noise ( that we have all heard while driving near a tractor trailer on the highway ) long before the tread starts to go WACK WACK WACK while hitting the inter fender well and then comes the big separation. That tire on that truck still has tread attached to the tire. It hasn't had the big explosion when that 95 psi tire comes apart.
This_person
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected.
My point was that there would be no need for construction. Professional firefighters can certainly work out of the given spaces with the given "first call" agreements, etc., that are in place now. Yes, they'd be more expensive, but the cost of their expense would be offset to a degree (certainly not approaching 100%) by not having to train and equip such a large hobby workforce. Bay District has about 150 members, give or take. Imagine reducing that to 20, and the training/equipment costs as well as the reduced insurance for having professional drivers, etc. There's no way that would pay for the 20 professionals, but it would certainly take some of the sting out of paying for them.
Bay District had about 2100 last year. I do not agree that the only reason is workforce is overworked for the number of calls - sometimes they just have trouble finding people. An average call, though, has far more people than actually go to the scene, because you get credit just for showing up (because you need to show up for so many to get the benefits and to be seen as a good person in the group). So, people routinely get credit for calls they never suited up for.
TimTheToolMan
Member
And you have the numbers to support that the majority of the volunteers are also not career in other jurisdictions?