PsyOps
Pixelated
Given I'm not a lawyer and Dershowitz is, I'll have to default to his expertise.
Manafort pardon
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Given I'm not a lawyer and Dershowitz is, I'll have to default to his expertise.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
That’s an interesting take on it, but if Cohen committed a felony and trump directed him to commit that felony I am pretty sure that’s a crime. We will see what the coming months bring, but I doubt the R Congress is going to impeach trump over this. They could, but it’s not likely.
An accurate take on it, too. Sorry, Mo. Go fish.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
We will see how accurate it is when mueller issues his report, maybe sooner.
Mueller isn't in a hurry bto release any report.
What will it say, I looked for collusion for two years and got a couple of convictions for the IRS?
That had nothing to do with Trump.
BOP
Well-Known Member
This_person
Well-Known Member
He's definitely talking bigger picture. He does not address things like records (even if Trump donated to his campaign, which AD accurately says is legal in any amount, he does not address the question of reporting it), or the fact that Cohen gave the money first (which is a problem for Cohen, not Trump).
In short, I fully believe their actions were legal on the grand scheme, but handled poorly from an administrative sense (justifying Trump's point yesterday that Cohen is not a very good lawyer).
This_person
Well-Known Member
But, again, I think the problems amount to literally a few hundred dollars worth of fine. And, since Obama's campaign was 2008, and he wasn't fined until Dec 2012 (to make sure it was after the 2012 election), I would suspect Trump/Cohen should not see the fines until at least December 2020.
Is it? So if I told you to go rob a bank, and you did it, I'd get charged with a crime?
Here's the transcript:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-transcript-annotated/?utm_term=.9adfddfd56b1
Please tell me where Trump is directing Cohen to commit a crime. Here's what the media people are playing and insisting incriminates Trump:
TRUMP: Wait a sec, what financing?
COHEN: Well, I’ll have to pay him something.
That part tells me that the payoff was Cohen's idea. And it's not illegal for him to do that. Where is the part where Trump directs Cohen to make the payment?
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
yes, its called conspiracy to commit bank robbery. I wouldn't even need to rob the bank for you to be guilty of that conspiracy. All it would take is one of the people in the conspiracy to commit one act in furtherence of that crime, for instance buying a gun or making a map of the bank.
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
That part looks like it, but looking at more than one quote from each person....
But this transcript is from a recording Cohen had. He later testified in court that he paid the money "in coordination and at the direction of a candidate for federal office".
https://www.lawfareblog.com/document-michael-cohen-plea-agreement
And Trump can say he paid "at the direction of a husband and businessman"
And Someone else can say he paid "at the direction of a hotel owner"
And another can say he paid "at the direction of a rich guy with famous hair"
PsyOps
Pixelated
Approval is the same as ordering. When discussing how to resolve an issue in these circumstances, there is an underling and a boss. Trump is the boss. Cohen suggests they do this. Trump agrees and orders him to do it. All of that is moot. Cohen used his own money to pay these women off, which is interpreted as a campaign contribution, because it was used to save Trump's election. The law allows Trump to use as much of his own money, in the interest of his campaign, as he wants. Even though I interpret Trump agreeing to paying this money as an 'order', it doesn't appear to be illegal.
Here's the thing. Trump is a dirty scumbag. His personal life really sucks. Fox was interviewing Scott Adams (Dilbert writer) and he made a good analogy. When I hire a plumber, I'm not concerned with whether he's had illicit affairs or has 1000 speeding tickets or whatever... If he does a good job, I'm going to hire him. Now, Trump is a public figure, my plumber isn't. So, perception of honesty and integrity is important to voters. If the president is dishonest in his personal life, will he be honest in how he conducts the business of the people?
But that's not what this issue is about. It's about the law - did Trump break the law deserving of impeachment. Whether I will vote for him again has nothing to do with all of this legal stuff.
I think it's obvious Trump is saying "don't pay with cash". What makes it obvious to me is that he then says, "check".
But paying with cash isn't illegal anyway.
He can say whatever he wants, but that doesn't make it true. And yes, even if he says it under oath. At some point the prosecution will have to prove that Trump directed him to make that payment. And then they have to explain why it's against the law and make a specific charge.
The whole Trump phenomenon has been fascinating to me. The media sets up a recording by telling you what you are going to hear; they play the tape, and it says nothing of the sort; they tell you that you just heard something that wasn't there; they play the tape over and over, each time telling you that you are hearing something that isn't there; and vast hordes of people fall for it. "Yes, I definitely heard what the media told me to hear." The Billy Bush tape is a perfect example and so is this Cohen tape.
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
The law is a LITTLE more specific than that - if I tell you to go jump off a bridge - and you do - I would not be found culpable of wrongdoing -
unless it could be shown that my intent was to seriously get you to kill yourself - or I had something to gain - and so forth.
An off the cuff remark isn't enough.
If it were true the sheer number of "ordered sexual assaults" would be staggering from all the ######## I've told to "Go #### themselves!"
which is BS ..... unless the MONEY went into the 'Bank Account for Trump's Election' it ain't a campaign contribution