"Mary Worship?"

[Radiant1]

Yeah...

The difference though is that we have the truth, they don't. If you don't see that, you've seriously failed Christianity 101 and need to do some more studying...

Oh, so now it's "we" instead of you against the Catholics?

I'm all for Christian unity, but do not lump me in with your tactics, thank you.

Allah is NOT the God of Abraham by a long shot. The God of Abraham is the same God in both the OT & NT. Jesus was there in front of them and they denied that He is God the Messiah in human form.

Just an FYI: Arabic Christians call God Allah. I'll ask you like I asked Starman, you don't exactly believe in stoning people to death or bashing children's heads against rocks do you?

Satan loves that one..... Jesus commanded His own to try to know (by observing their "fruit"), to contend for the faith, make disciples of all nations and, if possible, convert. I guess you like the work at home plan instead of the "Go and make disciples..." plan?

I think I've said it before, your fruit is rancid...or something to that effect. You can keep trying to justify your actions, it makes no difference to me in the end.

The Jewish god doesn't include Jesus, so they're not even close. 1 John said: "You can't have the Father without the Son" & vv. They believe that God is not a man and, since Jesus came as a man, He wasn't God to them.

The God of the OT & NT is the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. That didn't change under the new covenant. Jesus name was never mentioned in the OT but He was spoken of in it numerous times. So much so that Jesus said the Jews had Moses & the Prophets writings about Him but they wouldn't believe in Him even if someone rose from the dead (which Jesus did) Luke 16 v 26-31.

So, because they, the Jews and Muslims, don't believe God is Trinity then they must not believe in the God of Abraham? It's not a matter of them believing something different about Him? Are you SURE?

Like I said, it's not a hard concept to grasp; or in your case, admit.

 

[toppick08]

Oh, so now it's "we" instead of you against the Catholics?

I'm all for Christian unity, but do not lump me in with your tactics, thank you.



Just an FYI: Arabic Christians call God Allah. I'll ask you like I asked Starman, you don't exactly believe in stoning people to death or bashing children's heads against rocks do you?



I think I've said it before, your fruit is rancid...or something to that effect. You can keep trying to justify your actions, it makes no difference to me in the end.



So, because they, the Jews and Muslims, don't believe God is Trinity then they must not believe in the God of Abraham? It's not a matter of them believing something different about Him? Are you SURE?

Like I said, it's not a hard concept to grasp; or in your case, admit.

 

[Radiant1]

YES!

Too much moralism and not enough Gospel!

Because God knows the Gospel isn't the least bit about being moral!!!

 

[Zguy28]

Because God knows the Gospel isn't the least bit about being moral!!!

The Gospel isn't a bunch of moralizing homilies that send the message to "just do better and try to follow the commands."

So what is the Gospel Radiant1?

 

[Starman3000m]

You do realize after all this time that they don't hold to Sola Scriptura, right?

Until you convince them of that, you will never win the Mary argument.

Yes, sadly, I do realize that. This is just a solid confirmation (no pun intended) to the fact that Catholics have been indoctrinated to believe in another gospel that was not preached by Jesus nor evangelized by the 1st century disciples.

The irony is that the RCC uses out-of-context verses from "Sola Scriptura" in order to make it's extra-Biblical teachings sound legitimate. The extra-Biblical teachings are then given more weight and validity over what the entire context of the New Testament really teaches. That's exactly what pseudo-Christian cults do! This is not only true of the RCC, but also of Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, etc.

Sola Scriptura is avoided by cults because Sola Scriptura exposes false teachings:

Matthew 7:13-23
Matthew 23:9-33
Mark 12:38-40
Luke 20:46-47
2 Corinthians 11:3-4
2 Corinthians 11:12-15
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 3:1-29
2 Peter 2:1-22

 

[ItalianScallion]

You do realize after all this time that they don't hold to Sola Scriptura, right? Until you convince them of that, you will never win the Mary argument.

Oh, so now it's "we" instead of you against the Catholics?
I'm all for Christian unity, but do not lump me in with your tactics, thank you.

Am I the only one with the truth? :shrug: Of course it's "we". And you don't want to be "lumped in" with those of us that have the truth?

Just an FYI: Arabic Christians call God Allah. I'll ask you like I asked Starman, you don't exactly believe in stoning people to death or bashing children's heads against rocks do you?

Sure they do but, if they are TRUE Christians, they also know the true Jesus. Allah means God. The Muslim problem is that they don't define "God" like the Bible does; which means: Different God, different Jesus (see below).

And no; Most folks today can get stoned without my help...

So, because they, the Jews and Muslims, don't believe God is Trinity then they must not believe in the God of Abraham? It's not a matter of them believing something different about Him? Are you SURE? Like I said, it's not a hard concept to grasp; or in your case, admit.

That's right! The true and only God IS Triune (3 in 1). 3 Beings, 1 God. The Muslims & Jews both deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and that means:
No Jesus, No Father, No God of Abraham; which means No Heaven. Like YOU said, "it's not a hard concept to grasp; or in your case, admit".

Now do you honestly think that anyone can get to Heaven today (Oprah style) without Jesus and all that He is?

 

[libby]

That's right! The true and only God IS Triune (3 in 1). 3 Beings, 1 God. The Muslims & Jews both deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and that means:
No Jesus, No Father, No God of Abraham; which means No Heaven

Yet God Himself chose not to reveal this aspect of His Nature until thousands of years into salvation history. You and SM have the benefit of 2000 years of Christian history behind you to firm up your belief. Thank God for that, don't be so proud of yourselves for knowing the Triune nature of God.

Zguy, are you doing a bait and switch? You were far more "agree to disagree" some weeks ago, and now you seem to be starting to get condescending; what's up with that?

And SM, the very title of this thread is a malicious lie that you want to perpetuate. Sure, to you it looks like worship, but it isn't. We've tried to explain with Scripture and reason why Mary is important, but you won't listen. No, I'm not wasting my time going through it all again.
My son had a "debate" in school about God some months ago. Another student was claiming that God "killed" people in the OT, and on the surface, I suppose it looks that way to some. My son, however, argued that our lives belong to God in the first place, so therefore it is not killing to take what belongs to you.
The two of them were not coming from the same fundamental understanding of God, so the discussion was fruitless.
RCC's and SS's are not coming from the same fundamental understanding. For Catholics, He is a loving father who wants everyone is His family to be saved, and to work together toward that end, now that the door has been opened by God Himself, becoming man, and sacrificing Himself for our sakes. We are called to be as holy as we can possibly be, and we are held accountable for burying our gifts and/or not using them for His Divine Purpose.
You all believe Jesus saved us and cares not a whit what we do as long as we believe that. Guess we'll all find out sooner or later, huh?
SS's see

 

[Starman3000m]

...And SM, the very title of this thread is a malicious lie that you want to perpetuate.

Please answer the first two questions that I asked:

1.) Do you really believe that Mary was assumed up to Heaven as taught by the RCC?
If so, please show me Scripture from the Holy Bible to back this up.

2.) Does the Jesus that you believe in have His mother, Mary, assisting Him in Heaven as co-Redemptrix, Advocate, Helper, Mediatrix and reigns there as "Queen over all things" as taught by the RCC?
If so, please show me Scripture from the Holy Bible to back this up.

There Is Only One Truth

To believe that Mary was literally "assumed," is alive and active in the redemption process alongside Jesus is a falsehood according to the context of the New Testament teachings. Even Orthodox Judaism does not teach of a Moshiach and His mother playing a part in the redemption of mankind.

Paying religious tribute to any other person, place or thing in partnership with the Saviour of mankind is not only a form of worship but considered blasphemy and anathema. The RCC has established Mary as being all the titles given to her pursuant to the Cathecism and papal decree. As a Catholic, it is incumbent upon you to believe it.

As I mentioned once before, Fr. Corapi, advised his audience to "turn to Mary," "direct your devotions to Mary," etc. Additionally, the late Pope John Paul II was known for his devotions to Mary as well:

(excerpt from JP II's address re: Catechism))

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION / FIDEI DEPOSITUM
"At the conclusion of this document presenting the Catechism of the Catholic Church, I beseech the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of the Incarnate Word and Mother of the Church, to support with her powerful intercession the catechetical work of the entire Church on every level, at this time when she is called to a new effort of evangelization…"

Signed…Joannes Paulus II

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

and this:

(excerpt from Why he is a Saint P. 146)

“An authentic piety, firmly rooted in the Holy Scriptures and explored theologically in depth; a Trinitarian devotion which finds its harmonious completion in Marian devotion and in the veneration of the saints.”

from, Why he is a Saint: The life and faith of Pope John Paul II and the case for canonization.by Slawomir Oder with Saverio Gaeta

Yes, indeed, my dear libby. There is tribute, honor and devotion given to Mary by the RCC and that is a form of worship when she is also given such a high place of authority in the redemption process with the ability to allow souls into Heaven. That is proof that the RCC is not built upon the foundation of Christ alone but upon the foundation of Jesus and Mary.

Without Marian theology, the RCC crumbles. Either Mary is alive and actively engaged in all the attributes given to her by the RCC or her soul is resting in peace along with all other believers in Christ who have passed on until the day of Resurrection and when a new Heaven and a New Earth are established by God. (Revelation 21:1-27)

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)

There Is Only One Truth: (John 14:6)

 

[libby]

Please answer the first two questions that I asked:

1.) Do you really believe that Mary was assumed up to Heaven as taught by the RCC?
If so, please show me Scripture from the Holy Bible to back this up.

2.) Does the Jesus that you believe in have His mother, Mary, assisting Him in Heaven as co-Redemptrix, Advocate, Helper, Mediatrix and reigns there as "Queen over all things" as taught by the RCC?
If so, please show me Scripture from the Holy Bible to back this up.

There Is Only One Truth

To believe that Mary was literally "assumed," is alive and active in the redemption process alongside Jesus is a falsehood according to the context of the New Testament teachings. Even Orthodox Judaism does not teach of a Moshiach and His mother playing a part in the redemption of mankind.

Paying religious tribute to any other person, place or thing in partnership with the Saviour of mankind is not only a form of worship but considered blasphemy and anathema. The RCC has established Mary as being all the titles given to her pursuant to the Cathecism and papal decree. As a Catholic, it is incumbent upon you to believe it.

As I mentioned once before, Fr. Corapi, advised his audience to "turn to Mary," "direct your devotions to Mary," etc. Additionally, the late Pope John Paul II was known for his devotions to Mary as well:



and this:




Yes, indeed, my dear libby. There is tribute, honor and devotion given to Mary by the RCC and that is a form of worship when she is also given such a high place of authority in the redemption process with the ability to allow souls into Heaven. That is proof that the RCC is not built upon the foundation of Christ alone but upon the foundation of Jesus and Mary.

Without Marian theology, the RCC crumbles. Either Mary is alive and actively engaged in all the attributes given to her by the RCC or her soul is resting in peace along with all other believers in Christ who have passed on until the day of Resurrection and when a new Heaven and a New Earth are established by God. (Revelation 21:1-27)



There Is Only One Truth: (John 14:6)

I've tried. I'm not trying anymore.

 

[Radiant1]

The Gospel isn't a bunch of moralizing homilies that send the message to "just do better and try to follow the commands."

So what is the Gospel Radiant1?

I'll sum that up in one word...LOVE.

So, if you agree with what Zguy said, why continue in the same vein (or should I say vain) you have been? Is it your wish to make Matthew 5:10-12 a reality for Catholics?

Am I the only one with the truth? :shrug: Of course it's "we". And you don't want to be "lumped in" with those of us that have the truth?

Have you been comprehending what I've been saying to you, or is this another attempt at stabbing a strawman? No, I don't want to be lumped in with those of you who proclaim their own personal interpretations on scripture and cram it down everyone else's throat in a believe-as-I-do-or-else mentality. I'll say it again, there are huge parallels between your intentions and radical Muslims. This isn't about your theology, it's about your tactics.

Sure they do but, if they are TRUE Christians, they also know the true Jesus. Allah means God. The Muslim problem is that they don't define "God" like the Bible does; which means: Different God, different Jesus (see below).

Right. They define the God of Abraham differently, as do Jews and Christians.

And no; Most folks today can get stoned without my help...

That poorly done dodge is duly noted.

That's right! The true and only God IS Triune (3 in 1). 3 Beings, 1 God. The Muslims & Jews both deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and that means:
No Jesus, No Father, No God of Abraham; which means No Heaven. Like YOU said, "it's not a hard concept to grasp; or in your case, admit".

Now do you honestly think that anyone can get to Heaven today (Oprah style) without Jesus and all that He is?

You do realize, don't you, that Abraham didn't believe in the Son of God either?

Let me try to put my views more succinctly for you. It is by the grace of Christ that anyone can obtain heaven, however...

Jews will not go to hell simply for believing as they do theologically because God doesn't break His covenants (promises). His was a progressive revelation and they remain His people.

As for Muslims, they believe in the God of Abraham; however, they have added their supposed revelation to the Gospel (much like Mormons), in which we know was the final covenant with man. Therefore, theologically they have some serious issues and it is to be rejected, which I think you would agree, but the following still remains...

I don't read hearts and I don't dare usurp the judgment of God.

Call that "Oprah style" if you so wish, it makes no difference to me what you call it. God is merciful AND just.

Look IS, my point here is to make you recognize that Muslims do what they do because they care and love mankind. They simply want everyone to believe the truth as they perceive it, just like you do. You are no different than they regarding the justifications for your tactics. I'm sorry if that's a bitter pill for you to swallow, but the reality is what it is.

 

[Starman3000m]

I've tried. I'm not trying anymore.

I love you dearly, libby, but I have asked you to please show me where I have stated a falsehood against the RCC of which you have accused me of doing. Your charge is quite serious and you need to prove your claim.

Just like IS and others, I have presented theological facts showing that the RCC is preaching another "Jesus," another "Mary," and another version of the Gospel of Salvation that is NOT in agreement with what Jesus nor His disciples taught in the New Testament accoounts. The Holy Bible gives all followers of Jesus Christ the right and responsibilty to warn others when they are involved or being led into false doctrines. (2 Timothy 4: 1-5)

If you are really up to facing the reality of the RCC's foundational history, I ask that you consider how Roman Catholicism began and how it led many people away from placing complete trust in Jesus as the ONLY Mediator (1 Timothy 2:5) and has adulterated the True Gospel accounts as written in the New Testament:

When Rome went from being pagan to Christian under Constantine, (312 AD) they had to find a replacement for the great mother of paganism. It was not until the time of Constantine that anyone began to look at Mary as a goddess. Since Mary was the mother of Jesus Christ, she was the most logical person to replace the pagan mother goddess. The pagans could continue their prayers and devotion to the mother goddess, only they would call her Mary. The pagans worshipped the mother as much or more than her son and this is exactly what the Roman Catholicism does. True Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped – not his mother. The fact remains that Jesus never hinted at the idea of Mary worship nor did any of the apostles. Worshipping the mother goddess along with her child took place centuries before Jesus Christ was ever born in many different parts of the world. In 431 A.D. Mary worship became an official doctrine of the church in at the Council of Ephesus.

Source: Cult of Roman Catholicism

I hereby stand by my claim; it is up to you to prove that what I have stated is false.

The RCC is preaching "salvation" via another gospel, another Jesus and another Mary and not the True Biblical teaching of Salvation from the New Testament Accounts.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (2 Corinthians 11:4)

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:8-9)

The written words of the Holy Bible contain all the essential truths that brings a person to the Salvation Grace that God offers through the Atoning Blood of Christ and there is no mention that Mary would ever join Him in Heaven as "Queen over all things," "Helper," "Advocate," Benefactress," co-Redemptrix," "Mediatrix," etc.

Jesus is the resurrected Saviour of mankind; There Is Proof of that.
There is no Biblical proof that Mary resurrected and was assumed up to Heaven. No Proof - No Truth!

 

[libby]

I love you dearly, libby, but I have asked you to please show me where I have stated a falsehood against the RCC of which you have accused me of doing. Your charge is quite serious and you need to prove your claim.

I've tried. I'm not trying anymore. And I stand by my claim that you are deliberately trying to spread falsehoods about the RCC because you disagree with her theology.
Perhaps it's because her theology is sound that you feel you must make stuff up, or borrow from the Jack Chick handbook of lies.

Pearls before swine, SM. Pearls before swine.

Oh yeah, and because loving someone merely mean that you desire Heaven for them, then I love you dearly, too.

 

[Zguy28]

I'll sum that up in one word...LOVE.

So the sign for St. Aloysius in Leonardtown would be accurate if it said "Repent and believe the love" instead of "repent and believe the gospel"?

There is a lot more to it than that and to say otherwise is an injustice.

What is the gospel?

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[hotcoffee]

I went back and read the first posts....

So the sign for St. Aloysius in Leonardtown would be accurate if it said "Repent and believe the love" instead of "repent and believe the gospel"?

There is a lot more to it than that and to say otherwise is an injustice.

What is the gospel?

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Thanks for all of this.... Now.... Why does our church [I mean catholic and protestant alike] regularly preach about giving to the church, without giving equal time to spreading the word....

In the beginning, before God had to close the Garden of Eden, God use you walk with the humans He created. Later during the period when the Arc of the Covenant was housed in the Temple, God use to dwell in the Temple. Later still, while Moses and the tribes were wandering around for 40 years, God traveled with them.

God wants to walk among us.... God wants to enjoy a relationship with us...

Salvation is a Gift.... If the church was not so human centered.... more would know about the Great Commission....

The protestant church is guilty of making the children believe that young people can't make a decision about Christ.... when in fact Timothy himself was just a child.....

We need to stay with the Gospel.... He inspired it.... It's written for us and has been passed down all these generations for a reason!

IMHO

 

[ItalianScallion]

Yet God Himself chose not to reveal this aspect of His Nature until thousands of years into salvation history. You and SM have the benefit of 2000 years of Christian history behind you to firm up your belief. Thank God for that, don't be so proud of yourselves for knowing the Triune nature of God.

Do a word study on "God" in Genesis 1. God made His Triune nature clear from the beginning. The word "Elohim" has a plural meaning. In verse 1 it says: "In the beginning God created...". The noun "God" is plural but the verb "created" is singular, to show the plurality of beings that make up the One God.

Genesis 1v2 speaks of God and His Spirit (well there's 2 right there). Then God says: "Let US make man in OUR image..." He didn't say: let me make man in MY image (Genesis 1v26).

Then: "let US go down & confuse their language..." (Genesis 11v7). Even Isaiah 9 spoke of the child Jesus as the "Mighty God". There are MANY other OT references to a Triune God so you can't say that He waited thousands of years to reveal Himself.

My son had a "debate" in school about God some months ago. Another student was claiming that God "killed" people in the OT, and on the surface, I suppose it looks that way to some. My son, however, argued that our lives belong to God in the first place, so therefore it is not killing to take what belongs to you.

God did kill people back then so they would respect and fear Him. This was done as a foreshadowing of what will come at the end of time to those who reject Him.

RCC's and SS's are not coming from the same fundamental understanding.

And you don't see this as a problem?

No, I don't want to be lumped in with those of you who proclaim their own personal interpretations on scripture and cram it down everyone else's throat in a believe-as-I-do-or-else mentality.

Again, how is it my personal interpretation? Radiant1 you are dangerously speaking against what Jesus taught. He spoke vehemently against all other opinions of God and yet you say it's wrong to have a singular view of God? Do the math on your "believe as I do or else mentality".

They define the God of Abraham differently, as do Jews and Christians.

You do realize, don't you, that Abraham didn't believe in the Son of God either?

And you see no problem with this first statement???
All non Christian religions define the God of Abraham (and Jesus) differently and they will lose out on Heaven because of it. Why? Because God is NOT open to everyone's interpretation of Him. Either believe or perish (He said).

Abraham knew of Jesus because Moses & the Prophets wrote about Him (Luke 16v30, 31). Here are the Mosaic verses (Note the Messianic symbolism):

Genesis 40 v 9, 10, 11
Exodus 12 v 12, 21-23
Leviticus 16
Numbers 24 v 17
Deuteronomy 18 v 15-19

Abraham did NOT have to depend on Christ's death for his salvation because it hadn't happened; YET. He believed in the symbolic rituals of the OT that pointed to Christ in the future. It is said that: "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness".

Jews will not go to hell simply for believing as they do theologically because God doesn't break His covenants (promises). His was a progressive revelation and they remain His people.
As for Muslims, they believe in the God of Abraham; however, they have added their supposed revelation to the Gospel (much like Mormons), in which we know was the final covenant with man. Therefore, theologically they have some serious issues and it is to be rejected, which I think you would agree...Call that "Oprah style" if you so wish, it makes no difference to me what you call it. God is merciful AND just.

OMG you believe just like Oprah! You have just made Jesus out to be a tremendous liar because He said the exact opposite to the Jews. They WILL go to Hell for their unbelief (John 8v 31-59). Today the point is: belief in Jesus. Wrong Jesus, wrong God, no salvation. Muslims, too, will not get there with their present beliefs...

Look IS, my point here is to make you recognize that Muslims do what they do because they care and love mankind. They simply want everyone to believe the truth as they perceive it, just like you do. You are no different than they regarding the justifications for your tactics. I'm sorry if that's a bitter pill for you to swallow, but the reality is what it is.

WHERE'S YOUR HEAD BEEN ALL THESE YEARS RADIANT1? Muslims are the end times, anti God, one world religion of Rev 13. Read it!

The truth "as they believe it" is a satanic LIE! Muslims DO NOT love mankind!! They are the devil's children You statements are demonic at best and cannot be reconciled with God's Word.
God help us!! It's all coming true...

 

[Radiant1]

The truth "as they believe it" is a satanic LIE! Muslims DO NOT love mankind!! They are the devil's children

That's one heck of a blanket statement. If you believe that, then stop acting like them.

 

[PsyOps]

That's one heck of a blanket statement. If you believe that, then stop acting like them.

Do you believe it?

As a whole, the Islamic religion, in its present state, oppresses women, inflicts brutal penalties when Sharia is violated, views anyone not Muslim as the infidel, and must be converted or deserves death. I have stated this before –- I spent some considerable time in Saudi Arabia and got to see, first hand, what this religion is really about. They are a dictatorial and oppressive religion. There is no freedom under Sharia. It's their way or die. And this is not a spiritual death. Their goal is to establish a global Caliphate, in which everyone is Muslim and those who refuse are rejected and destroyed.

This is really the core of their faith; to spread globally through force and intimidation. The reason we are facing the problem with this religion today is because we have so many that refuse to accept this fact in the better interest of political and ideological correctness. We fear angering and offending them; while they don't care who they offend or anger. If you refuse to recognize this as a problem then be prepared to convert or face a certain demise.

I don't really see any Christian in this forum demanding such ideals.

 

[Radiant1]

Do you believe it?

As a whole, the Islamic religion, in its present state, oppresses women, inflicts brutal penalties when Sharia is violated, views anyone not Muslim as the infidel, and must be converted or deserves death. I have stated this before –- I spent some considerable time in Saudi Arabia and got to see, first hand, what this religion is really about. They are a dictatorial and oppressive religion. There is no freedom under Sharia. It's their way or die. And this is not a spiritual death. Their goal is to establish a global Caliphate, in which everyone is Muslim and those who refuse are rejected and destroyed.

This is really the core of their faith; to spread globally through force and intimidation. The reason we are facing the problem with this religion today is because we have so many that refuse to accept this fact in the better interest of political and ideological correctness. We fear angering and offending them; while they don't care who they offend or anger. If you refuse to recognize this as a problem then be prepared to convert or face a certain demise.

I don't really any Christian in this forum demanding such ideals.

What I believe about Islamic theology or people is irrelevent. The whole point is that they view their religion as the truth, and IS views his version of Christianity as the truth. Both want to tell me I'm in error and cram their truth down my throat with a threat. Whether that threat be a physical death or eternal damnation doesn't much matter.

 

[PsyOps]

What I believe about Islamic theology or people is irrelevent. The whole point is that they view their religion as the truth, and IS views his version of Christianity as the truth. Both want to tell me I'm in error and cram their truth down my throat with a threat. Whether that threat be a physical death or eternal damnation doesn't much matter.

I've read a lot of your posts and I am amazed that someone with your intelligence can't see the difference between:

"If you don’t believe, my God says you’re going to hell."

and...

"If you don’t believe we will come after you and kill you and your family and everyone else that refuses to believe."

With the first, you have a personal choice and you either receive the gift of eternal life or you don’t. There is no threat of physical harm to you.

With the latter, not only will you not go to heaven but you will also receive physical harm; in other words you are forced to believe by other people. There is no demand from IS, through physical harm, for you to convert. He is only bringing you the message.

So again, the question is quite relevant regarding the difference in approaches. IS is only telling you what’s in the bible and the spiritual consequences of your decisions. Muslims not only tell you what’s in the Koran, they accompany that with physical threats and demands that you convert or else – by their own hands. A very relevant and stark difference.

 

[libby]

I've read a lot of your posts and I am amazed that someone with your intelligence can't see the difference between:

"If you don’t believe, my God says you’re going to hell."

and...

"If you don’t believe we will come after you and kill you and your family and everyone else that refuses to believe."

With the first, you have a personal choice and you either receive the gift of eternal life or you don’t. There is no threat of physical harm to you.

With the latter, not only will you not go to heaven but you will also receive physical harm; in other words you are forced to believe by other people. There is no demand from IS, through physical harm, for you to convert. He is only bringing you the message.

So again, the question is quite relevant regarding the difference in approaches. IS is only telling you what’s in the bible and the spiritual consequences of your decisions. Muslims not only tell you what’s in the Koran, they accompany that with physical threats and demands that you convert or else – by their own hands. A very relevant and stark difference.

Yeah, spiritual death is a bigger death than physical death.