Motorcyle crash, 2 killed. Makes my blood boil!

[BS Gal]

I see people on phones a lot, but they're not always multi tasking. I have people pull out in front of me all the time, and I'd say most of the time the only thing they're doing is driving. I agree that you shouldn't be on the cell phone when you're driving, but that's becoming a tiring argument.

mAlice, if they're driving and on a cell, they are multi-tasking. :shrug:

 

[clevalley]

I understand what you're saying, and if we did that, then we'd have to make any larger vehicle that causes an accident should suffer a higher consequence, whether it be a car hitting a bike, or a semi hitting a hummer. I have to agree with Cyclops on this. If you drive a bike, you are aware of the potential dangers, just as when driving a compact car, you're aware of the dangers.

What we need is for the cops to enforce the existing laws. I see laws broken every day by drivers, and many times I see cops turn a blind eye to those broken laws because they don't want to be bothered. I guess they think if an accident wasn't the result of the broken law, "no harm, no foul".

I understand your side of the argument, I really do, but I do not believe on the larger/smaller concept - I just believe a large percentage of auto's do not look out for bikes... that is the basis on the AMA law concept.

Believe me, I understood the consequences if I went down - I do believe people on crotch rockets acting like a jackass suffers from "I am invincible" or "It won't happen to me" disease...

Either way you are right, current laws on the books today need to be enforced and fines/penalties need to be levied.

This argument is getting tiresome, not to mention ridiculous. Since when is a pickup truck difficult to see? Since they are so vulnerable, these pickup drivers, why don't we require them to wear helmets?

I agree DR - you take over from here...

 

[mAlice]

mAlice, if they're driving and on a cell, they are multi-tasking. :shrug:

What I meant was, they're not always on the phone, or doing something else that is distracting. Sometimes they're just driving. Not very well, but still just driving.

You make it sound like every time somebody screws up, it's because they're on a cell phone. I had a vision of you wagging your finger at someone while you were posting that.

 

[clevalley]

Because I disagree you think I don’t understand your position? Why in the world would a car driver be fined at all if the biker caused the accident or if both were found at fault? I know we are talking about the car driver being found at fault. So your only course of action is to get ugly and claim I don’t understand.

There is no rationale for imposing heavier fine on cars drivers simply because they are driving a car and they cause more damage to a biker. It wasn’t my choice that the biker chose to drive something that was less safe and harder to see on the road. Just like it’s not the fault of an SUV driver that I chose to drive something (Honda Civic) that would get crushed in an accident with an SUV.

It is not because a car will do more damage to a bike, the laws of physics dictate the car will sustain less damage - we all know that.

My only course of action is frustration , not ugliness, because you think I think it is a larger/smaller concept - and it is not...

Go back and re-read my posts... especially the one to mAlice and DR, it is about the auto driver not paying attention and being blatantly at fault.

You can direct the rest of your questions to DR, he would be glad to help you out on this.

 

[BS Gal]

What I meant was, they're not always on the phone, or doing something else that is distracting. Sometimes they're just driving. Not very well, but still just driving.

You make it sound like every time somebody screws up, it's because they're on a cell phone. I had a vision of you wagging your finger at someone while you were posting that.

I wag it at people on the phone.

People just don't see bikes. I have started to pull out in my vehicle before and caught sight of a bike at the last minute who was hidden behind a telephone pole when I first looked. There just needs to be more awareness of bikes. And that's never going to happen because, unless you ride one, your thought processes are not tuned into looking for a bike. The new stiffer penalty law means well, but I don't think it is going to get people to pay any more attention.

Now, I'm going to start a loud pipes save lives argument.

 

[clevalley]

Now, I'm going to start a loud pipes save lives argument.

I could set off car alarms in parking lots if I cracked my throttle with my old bike.

Damn, I miss that bike especially in the spring and fall.

 

[calamity jane]

Makes me sad to hear about people losing their lives early too.
fact is, those drivers that speed up to cut off the bike, or pull out because they "think" they have enough room, do it to other cars too. I dont think it has to do with a bike, it has to do with ignorance.
this is why I think that additional penalties for hitting a bike are not a very good idea. do we also give harsher punishment if someone in a tractor trailer has an accident with a small car? where would the break off for punishment be?
F-250 vs Smart car? does the driver of the F-250 face harsher treatment?

Yes there are. All penalties for drivers with CDL's are much stricter. But that's another thread.

 

[mAlice]

I wag it at people on the phone.

People just don't see bikes. I have started to pull out in my vehicle before and caught sight of a bike at the last minute who was hidden behind a telephone pole when I first looked. There just needs to be more awareness of bikes. And that's never going to happen because, unless you ride one, your thought processes are not tuned into looking for a bike. The new stiffer penalty law means well, but I don't think it is going to get people to pay any more attention.

Now, I'm going to start a loud pipes save lives argument.

People just don't see bikes, and people who ride bikes know this, yet they continue to ride them. What's wrong with this picture?

If you want to put your happy ass on something that people don't see, I say YOU are putting your life at a higher risk for injury or death, and YOU should be the responsible party.

 

[PsyOps]

It is not because a car will do more damage to a bike, the laws of physics dictate the car will sustain less damage - we all know that.

My only course of action is frustration , not ugliness, because you think I think it is a larger/smaller concept - and it is not...

Go back and re-read my posts... especially the one to mAlice and DR, it is about the auto driver not paying attention and being blatantly at fault.

You can direct the rest of your questions to DR, he would be glad to help you out on this.

Car drivers don’t pay attention regardless of who is around them. Has nothing to do with bikers. The pinheads fumbling with their cell or lighting their cigarette or reading some briefing they're about to present threaten everyone around them equally, not just bikers. If you want to fine that type of driver more heavily I'm all for it. But just because they crash with a bike doesn't make them any more liable than if they crashed with another car. They weren't paying attention to anyone. And I am around those drivers everyday.

And I will equally say that almost on a daily basis I encounter bikers that ride too fast, too close, and in a manner that makes it more difficult for me to see them or anticipate what they are going to do. I would be willing to say that over 50% of the bikers I see are doing something that creates havoc for drivers. Should they be fined more heavily because of their erratic driving?

 

[desertrat]

People just don't see bikes, and people who ride bikes know this, yet they continue to ride them. What's wrong with this picture?

If you want to put your happy ass on something that people don't see, I say YOU are putting your life at a higher risk for injury or death, and YOU should be the responsible party.

Kinda like people that smoke even though they know it's hazardous to their health, I guess.

 

[mAlice]

Kinda like people that smoke even though they know it's hazardous to their health, I guess.

You might say that.

 

[BS Gal]

Car drivers don’t pay attention regardless of who is around them. Has nothing to do with bikers. The pinheads fumbling with their cell or lighting their cigarette or reading some briefing they're about to present threaten everyone around them equally, not just bikers. If you want to fine that type of driver more heavily I'm all for it. But just because they crash with a bike doesn't make them any more liable than if they crashed with another car. They weren't paying attention to anyone. And I am around those drivers everyday.

And I will equally say that almost on a daily basis I encounter bikers that ride too fast, too close, and in a manner that makes it more difficult for me to see them or anticipate what they are going to do. I would be willing to say that over 50% of the bikers I see are doing something that creates havoc for drivers. Should they be fined more heavily because of their erratic driving?

Definitely.

 

[desertrat]

Car drivers don’t pay attention regardless of who is around them. Has nothing to do with bikers. The pinheads fumbling with their cell or lighting their cigarette or reading some briefing they're about to present threaten everyone around them equally, not just bikers. If you want to fine that type of driver more heavily I'm all for it. But just because they crash with a bike doesn't make them any more liable than if they crashed with another car. They weren't paying attention to anyone. And I am around those drivers everyday.

And I will equally say that almost on a daily basis I encounter bikers that ride too fast, too close, and in a manner that makes it more difficult for me to see them or anticipate what they are going to do. I would be willing to say that over 50% of the bikers I see are doing something that creates havoc for drivers. Should they be fined more heavily because of their erratic driving?

Most of the ones I see are driving safely. I'd say less than 5% are being reckless. Those are almost exclusively sport bikes.

 

[mAlice]

Most of the ones I see are driving safely. I'd say less than 5% are being reckless. Those are almost exclusively sport bikes.

Then you're not seeing what we're seeing.

 

[desertrat]

Then you're not seeing what we're seeing.

I thought they were so hard to see? Maybe speeding and doing wheelies is a good way to be noticed? I may have to start riding differently.

 

[mAlice]

I thought they were so hard to see? Maybe speeding and doing wheelies is a good way to be noticed? I may have to start riding differently.

I have personally not had a near miss with a bike. Does that mean I'm more careful? :shrug: That I look twice? :shrug:

I pulled out in front of a Z3 the other day...I wonder if it was because I wasn't paying attention, or because it was gray and didn't have it's lights on, or if it was because I wasn't on the cell phone. :shrug:

You can drive your bike any way you want. I really don't care. I have a car wrapped around me, so what you do on your bike is really of no concern to me. What concerns me is the guy bigger than me.

 

[camily]

Most of the ones I see are driving safely. I'd say less than 5% are being reckless. Those are almost exclusively sport bikes.

I have to agree. I see idiots on 210 and have seen them on 4 doing wheelies but that is VERY rare. Most of the time I find bikers drive safely.

 

[MMDad]

Most of the ones I see are driving safely. I'd say less than 5% are being reckless. Those are almost exclusively sport bikes.

I'd say it's far less than that. On an average good weather day, I bet I pass 100 bikes on the road. I see an idiot rider about once a week.

I really have a problem with valuing a bikers life higher just because he chooses to ride. All vehicular manslaughter or negligence should be treated equally. Should we also increase fines on people who cause a crash with an old car that doesn't have modern safety features? Should we fine the guy in a work truck that collides with an economy car because the little car lost the battle? Why draw the line at bikers?

I also don't believe in helmet laws. They get in the way of natural selection, stop a great way of culling the herd, and weaken the human race as a whole.

 

[PsyOps]

Most of the ones I see are driving safely. I'd say less than 5% are being reckless. Those are almost exclusively sport bikes.

Well, you must not drive on route 4, which is becoming known as biker death alley particularly in the area between 258/259 and 301.

 

[desertrat]

I'd say it's far less than that. On an average good weather day, I bet I pass 100 bikes on the road. I see an idiot rider about once a week.

I really have a problem with valuing a bikers life higher just because he chooses to ride. All vehicular manslaughter or negligence should be treated equally. Should we also increase fines on people who cause a crash with an old car that doesn't have modern safety features? Should we fine the guy in a work truck that collides with an economy car because the little car lost the battle? Why draw the line at bikers?

I also don't believe in helmet laws. They get in the way of natural selection, stop a great way of culling the herd, and weaken the human race as a whole.

Less than less than 5%?

The funny thing is, to me anyway, some of these people who are screaming for stiff penalties for cars at fault are the same ones saying helmet laws should be taken off the books.