One could be inferred from observations during training..the other is never, ever known until the bullets fly.
A "Well Regulated Militia" .....
- Thread starter nhboy
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One could be inferred from observations during training..the other is never, ever known until the bullets fly.
Why does everyone want to go with a low power, low mass round? I'd take an old M1 Garand any day.
That drives me nuts too. The media, gun grabbers and so many others thnat have little knowledge of firearms continually refer to the .223/5.56 as "high powered" when, in fact, it's such a pissant weak little round that it's not legal to use it for hunting in many states. Short of rimfire (.22LR, for example) you have to look hard to find a weaker round.
My AR frames shoot .50 Beo, 76.62x39, 6.5 Grendel. 300 Blackout, etc..all because I like the frame but have little use for the pissant .223.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Good for that. Or, it was when it was cheap.
Yep..it once was cheap.
Tilted
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The Constitution was setting up the federal government. It was an agreement between the states that established how the federal government would work and what it could and could not do. That being the case, provisions in the Constitution were understood as applying to the federal government and not the states unless they indicated that they applied to the states. When they meant to limit the powers of the states, when they were agreeing to do that in certain regards, they said so. If you don't accept that premise, then how do you explain the repeating in Article I Section 10 of prohibitions that had just been stated in Article I Section 9?
Further, think about the historical context surrounding the consideration and enactment of the Bill of Rights. Many were concerned that through the new Constitution states were ceding too much power to the federal government. So they wanted assurances that the federal government wouldn't be allowed to do certain things. The Bill of Rights was meant to provide those assurances. How would it make sense to respond to concerns about states giving up too much power by passing a Bill of Rights that would mean that they - the states - were giving up even more power? That's not what it was understood to mean, it was understood as limiting what the federal government could do. Many states would not have ratified the Bill of Rights if it were thought to limit the powers of states. As Justice Thomas said in his McDonald concurrence...
Moreover, in case there was any doubt, they added the 10th Amendment. The power to regulate firearms was not delegated to the federal government nor was it prohibited to the states, so the states individually retained that power. The point was that, if the Constitution didn't specifically say that states no longer have a certain power (or that the federal government did have that power), then the states - depending on their own constitutions of course - still had that power.
Court decisions and accepted state practices dating back to Barron v Baltimore (1833) and (for state practices) before have consistently reflected that understanding - that the first 8 amendments of the Bill of Rights only limited the federal government.
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The most ubiquitous modern combat rifle, the M4, does not "spray" either, unless you consider a 3-rd burst "spraying"...and like the M1, requires some degree of marksmanship to be effective. It's simply a very small bullet compared to the old .30-06. Very small..
Larry Gude
Strung Out
IIRC, something like 50,000 5.56 rounds were fired for every dead enemy.
Gettsyburg was about 200 per KIA.
Not surprising numbers. It wasn't until we were in to WWII that the "make every shot count/conserve yr ammo" doctrine was largely replaced by one advocating massive fires and infinite ammo supply.
Yeah..and it's been steady climbing since the supply of the Russian and Bulgarian surplus is dwindling. The 440-rd cans are now $179..and more.
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
The Gettysburg numbers blow me away. How in the flying hell do you let loose 200 rounds under 400 yards and not hit anything???
Tilted
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Even accepting the 7 million rounds estimates and thus getting something approaching 200 rounds per casualty... would you assume that each casualty represented only one hit? I wouldn't, I'd expect the average was higher than 1 hit per counted casualty - perhaps substantially higher. (Of course there are factors that would work the other way - e.g., casualties not caused by small arms fire.) And it isn't like all the fighting happened out in the open with 2 lines of combatants staring directly at each other. How many of those bullets do you figure ended up in trees? And ten seconds in, how much could anybody see?
There are lots of factors that combined leave me willing to believe that maybe a hundred rounds could have been fired for every (human) hit landed.
British Martini-Henry Bandolier - 50 Rnds
1903 Leather Bandolier 5 pocket - 5 Pockets x2 5 rnd stripper clips [there is also a 9 pocket variant]
British P08 webbing x2 Pouches 75 rnds .303
... off another forum;
Muzzle loaders are inaccurate,
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Non sense. Most civil war rifles were just that; rifled. Plenty accurate 200-400 yards when you're aiming at a man.
I can't recall his name right now but a union general, seeking to calm his men over rifle fire some 700 yards away told them that the enemy couldn't hit an elephant at that range.
Then fell dead from the saddle with a hole right below one of his eyes.
IIRC felled by a sharpshooter
but in a massed volley fire when people are scared, a lot of sky gets hit .... through your rifle to your shoulder and jerk the trigger
explain this:
1986 FBI Miami shootout
Larry Gude
Strung Out
I get that but, what is usually behind who you're shooting at? More people. Supposedly, the worst place to be at Gettysburg was BEHIND the line at Cemetery ridge; over shoot.
So, I don't dispute the numbers but damn, 200:1?
They also found a LOT of rifles that had multiple rounds jammed into them. Guys who were so scared they didn't know if they fired or not and just kept cramming another round in.
I think the record was 23 minnie balls in one rifle?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Miami, a lot of people with no combat experience.