Abortion

[puggymom]

Why did the 18 year old get into a circumstance that could allow herself to get pregnant?

For the same reason any other woman does...sex is a normal, biological instinct. And frankly sometimes the unexpected happens.
Ideally people would wait until they were adults in committed monogamous relationships before having sex but ideological thinking is useless in the real world.

 

[Gwydion]

Your "idea" is not backed up legally, scientifically, logically, etc.

That's my only point.

Legally? Ok, never said my thoughts were on the legal side of the law.

Scientifically? Please, sir, tell me how my idea is not scientific. Tell me how a fetus can survive while the mother is dead without the aid of machinery.

Logically? I have seen your logic. Doesn't surprise me ours are different.

 

[puggymom]

Didn't she make that choice when she chose to take an action by which she could become pregnant?

No BC is 100%. None, except abstinence. By not practicing abstinence, isn't she making her choice to potentially become pregnant? After all, that's the argument used for men - they played, so they have to accept the responsibility of their actions. Why aren't women held to the same standard?

No, I do not choose to get pregnant every time I have sex with my husband. Of course we have taken permanent BC measures but not even that is 100%.

As for a guy I believe that a man should be given the opportunity to sign over parental rights within a certain time period of established paternity.

 

[Gwydion]

For the same reason any other woman does...sex is a normal, biological instinct. And frankly sometimes the unexpected happens.
Ideally people would wait until they were adults in committed monogamous relationships before having sex but ideological thinking is useless in the real world.

In which case the child should be put up for adoption to a family that is unable to have children.

 

[This_person]

Legally? Ok, never said my thoughts were on the legal side of the law.

Scientifically? Please, sir, tell me how my idea is not scientific. Tell me how a fetus can survive while the mother is dead without the aid of machinery.

Logically? I have seen your logic. Doesn't surprise me ours are different.

That loss of the life of the mother could cause loss of the life of the child does not imply that they are not separate lives. It does, however, imply that the baby is a dependant.

However, by your logic, no one on a breathing machine, or taking medicine to keep them alive, or with a pace maker, or any other form of external, non-natural life preserving measure is "alive". Because of this, I'll simply disagree with you, and negate your attempt at insulting my logic by considering the source.

 

[puggymom]

In which case the child should be put up for adoption to a family that is unable to have children.

So you advocate forced childbirth including all the possible risks associated with pregnancy? Gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, 1/4 (if not higher now) chance of major abdominal surgery? You advocate woman losing all their rights and freedoms for 9 months to become nothing more than a baby factory?

 

[This_person]

No, I do not choose to get pregnant every time I have sex with my husband. Of course we have taken permanent BC measures but not even that is 100%.

You're not choosing to get pregnant each time, but you are choosing the risk of it. As you say, you've taken permanent BC measures, I'm guessing with at least a 99% statistical probability of success. So, you're taking a very small risk, but you ARE taking that risk.

As for a guy I believe that a man should be given the opportunity to sign over parental rights within a certain time period of established paternity.

Rights and responsibilities?

 

[Gwydion]

That loss of the life of the mother could cause loss of the life of the child does not imply that they are not separate lives. It does, however, imply that the baby is a dependant.

However, by your logic, no one on a breathing machine, or taking medicine to keep them alive, or with a pace maker, or any other form of external, non-natural life preserving measure is "alive". Because of this, I'll simply disagree with you, and negate your attempt at insulting my logic by considering the source.

You really are slow, aren't you?

 

[puggymom]

You're not choosing to get pregnant each time, but you are choosing the risk of it. As you say, you've taken permanent BC measures, I'm guessing with at least a 99% statistical probability of success. So, you're taking a very small risk, but you ARE taking that risk.Rights and responsibilities?

Sorry, yes he should be able to terminate all rights and responsibilities to that child

 

[This_person]

You really are slow, aren't you?

No, but I can see you've run out of argument and have resorted to insults.

 

[Gwydion]

So you advocate forced childbirth including all the possible risks associated with pregnancy? Gestational diabetes, preeclampsia, 1/4 (if not higher now) chance of major abdominal surgery? You advocate woman losing all their rights and freedoms for 9 months to become nothing more than a baby factory?

Um no. Wait, losing all their rights and freedoms for 9 months? Please. Even if that is your idea of it, then that was something they waved themselves when they decided to spread em.

If the baby will be born with a terminal illness (note: terminal, not *any*), the pregnancy was caused by rape, or the life of the mother will be in danger, -then- abortion is the only thing that should be done.

Otherwise, if you get pregnant, you have the baby.

 

[Xaquin44]

Um no. Wait, losing all their rights and freedoms for 9 months? Please. Even if that is your idea of it, then that was something they waved themselves when they decided to spread em.

If the baby will be born with a terminal illness (note: terminal, not *any*), the pregnancy was caused by rape, or the life of the mother will be in danger, -then- abortion is the only thing that should be done.

Otherwise, if you get pregnant, you have the baby.

I bet you'd think different if you were a woman =)

 

[nana]

Would you say that the father has the right to demand an abortion of the child, too, then?


How about the child, does the child get a vote?

I feel that he should have a say in it or at least a vote A child never gets a say in its situation do they?

 

[Gwydion]

No, but I can see you've run out of argument and have resorted to insults.

Nope, you just twist my words and refuse to answer a simple question.

A person on a breathing machine or with a pacemaker is alive. You can't shoot another living thing and kill it.

Find me an example where that is not true and I will agree with you.

 

[This_person]

Sorry, yes he should be able to terminate all rights and responsibilities to that child

This is where my moral side kicks in and I want to argue that mother and father are equally responsible to that child and neither should be able to singly walk away from their responsibility. However, as we've both agreed, morals should not play into laws and societal rules.

If the father has the right to choose to abandon his child, that takes him out of play for consideration.

However, it does not still take out the child. Did you read my definition of life posted previously? The embryonic view, from a developmental biology text - not the dictionary.com one? What did you think of that?

 

[Gwydion]

This is where my moral side kicks in and I want to argue that mother and father are equally responsible to that child and neither should be able to singly walk away from their responsibility. However, as we've both agreed, morals should not play into laws and societal rules.

If the father has the right to choose to abandon his child, that takes him out of play for consideration.

However, it does not still take out the child. Did you read my definition of life posted previously? The embryonic view, from a developmental biology text - not the dictionary.com one? What did you think of that?

So you are suggesting that the child should have a say in whether or not he dies prior to his birth?

 

[Gwydion]

I bet you'd think different if you were a woman =)

Probably. I do feel like if I was a woman I'd be whoring myself out to all the drunk somders.

 

[This_person]

Nope, you just twist my words and refuse to answer a simple question.

A person on a breathing machine or with a pacemaker is alive. You can't shoot another living thing and kill it.

Find me an example where that is not true and I will agree with you.

You answered this thought yourself. The baby can potentially survive with medical assistance. Your definition of life (as altered to fit your current argument) was to survive "without the aid of machinery"

Legally? Ok, never said my thoughts were on the legal side of the law.

Scientifically? Please, sir, tell me how my idea is not scientific. Tell me how a fetus can survive while the mother is dead without the aid of machinery.

Logically? I have seen your logic. Doesn't surprise me ours are different.

Now, you're twisting that to be not life because it can die if someone else is shot? Are we still talking about dying without medical assistance, as you previously suggested, or what?

 

[This_person]

So you are suggesting that the child should have a say in whether or not he dies prior to his birth?

I'm glad you are laughing at that, because the absurdity of it was my point. That anyone with a healthy view of the sacredness of human life would find it idiotic to kill someone else as a choice of convenience (better than 90% of abortions, per Planned Parenthood, are for convenience).

 

[Gwydion]

You answered this thought yourself. The baby can potentially survive with medical assistance. Your definition of life (as altered to fit your current argument) was to survive "without the aid of machinery"Now, you're twisting that to be not life because it can die if someone else is shot? Are we still talking about dying without medical assistance, as you previously suggested, or what?

Yup. The people (note I am referencing them as people) are already alive when they get assisted by machines to continue to live.

Else, screw it. Why should the man not have a say in the abortion of his child? It was the woman's choice not to remove the fetus and stuff it in a test tube.

And on top of that, I don't want to hear another woman complain about being pregnant. Its your fault for not getting it removed and grown outside of you.