Affordable Housing

[hvp05]

Let's do the "happy dance"!

Thanks. Just saying what had to be said. I was hesitant because I'm not in Calvert, but I think Calvert (and St. Mary's) ought to do all it can to prevent another Chuck Co. incident.

 

[CableChick]

Thanks. Just saying what had to be said. I was hesitant because I'm not in Calvert, but I think Calvert (and St. Mary's) ought to do all it can to prevent another Chuck Co. incident.

"Affordable housing" is a meaningless phrase. Broken down to its effective meaning, it means giving someone a house at below market value and putting a gun to someone else's head to pay for the subsidy.

Putting a gun? Well, if you say, "no way, jose," the tax man will come to put you in jail. If you lock your door, the swat team will break it down. If you try to defend your private property with your gun, the mobilized police forces will shoot you down.

So when a politician preaches something like affordable housing, they are really saying, "CableChick, i am going to make you and your family pay for it! or else."

 

[hvp05]

So when a politician preaches something like affordable housing, they are really saying, "CableChick, i am going to make you and your family pay for it! or else."

Exactly. Nothing is free. For every program that is started to aid Group A, something has to be taken from Group B. The point at which Group B's contribution becomes too much is where Democrats and Republicans part ways.

 

[Pete]

"affordable housing" = "Ghetto". Capitalism will drive the market. I drove through Calvert last night and today and I don't recall seeing any homeless, people living in washer boxes under the over pass nor did I see and businesses that were understaffed or closed.

You are attempting to fix something that isn't broken by applying the basic tenets of socialism. Let the market dictate what is built. If McMansions quit selling the builders will build something else that will.

If you were a real Republican you would view these "poor women raising kids" as the root cause of the problem. The breakdown of the nuclear family, single parent families have a hard row to hoe and that is a life lesson that is lost on todays "no fault" society. Building ghettos and projects only shifts the burden to house people who make shiatty life choices to the public. I say leave it on them or if you must shift the burden shift it back on mommy and daddy. Let Delores or Chiquitwa go back and live with mom and dad since they evidently missed a couple lessons like "Living within your means 101, Birth Control 217, Understanding what is a "want" and what is a "need" 301, Priorities 405, and the graduate course "Stop mooching off society and grab an oar and row 525.

To quote the movie "If you build it, they will come" and to add my own "Once they are there you will not get rid of them."

 

[cdsulhoff]

"affordable housing" = "Ghetto". Capitalism will drive the market. I drove through Calvert last night and today and I don't recall seeing any homeless, people living in washer boxes under the over pass nor did I see and businesses that were understaffed or closed.

You are attempting to fix something that isn't broken by applying the basic tenets of socialism. Let the market dictate what is built. If McMansions quit selling the builders will build something else that will.

If you were a real Republican you would view these "poor women raising kids" as the root cause of the problem. The breakdown of the nuclear family, single parent families have a hard row to hoe and that is a life lesson that is lost on todays "no fault" society. Building ghettos and projects only shifts the burden to house people who make shiatty life choices to the public. I say leave it on them or if you must shift the burden shift it back on mommy and daddy. Let Delores or Chiquitwa go back and live with mom and dad since they evidently missed a couple lessons like "Living within your means 101, Birth Control 217, Understanding what is a "want" and what is a "need" 301, Priorities 405, and the graduate course "Stop mooching off society and grab an oar and row 525.

To quote the movie "If you build it, they will come" and to add my own "Once they are there you will not get rid of them."

 

[oldman]

"affordable housing" = "Ghetto". Capitalism will drive the market. I drove through Calvert last night and today and I don't recall seeing any homeless, people living in washer boxes under the over pass nor did I see and businesses that were understaffed or closed.

You are attempting to fix something that isn't broken by applying the basic tenets of socialism. Let the market dictate what is built. If McMansions quit selling the builders will build something else that will.

If you were a real Republican you would view these "poor women raising kids" as the root cause of the problem. The breakdown of the nuclear family, single parent families have a hard row to hoe and that is a life lesson that is lost on todays "no fault" society. Building ghettos and projects only shifts the burden to house people who make shiatty life choices to the public. I say leave it on them or if you must shift the burden shift it back on mommy and daddy. Let Delores or Chiquitwa go back and live with mom and dad since they evidently missed a couple lessons like "Living within your means 101, Birth Control 217, Understanding what is a "want" and what is a "need" 301, Priorities 405, and the graduate course "Stop mooching off society and grab an oar and row 525.

To quote the movie "If you build it, they will come" and to add my own "Once they are there you will not get rid of them."

Unfortunately Pete, I do agree with you. Wish it wasn't that way but it is a fact. I'm single and retired on a fixed income, above what would qualify me for any benefits and there is no way I could afford a house - but if I could I wouldn't live there because I know what kind of neighborhood it would be. I am super fortunate though to have found the rental I'm living in and have no
regrets.

 

[Pandora]

Unfortunately Pete, I do agree with you. Wish it wasn't that way but it is a fact. I'm single and retired on a fixed income, above what would qualify me for any benefits and there is no way I could afford a house - but if I could I wouldn't live there because I know what kind of neighborhood it would be. I am super fortunate though to have found the rental I'm living in and have no
regrets.

What I don’t understand about Maryland is the lack of 55 and up communities. You can afford to work in Maryland but you cannot and will not be able to afford to retire here.

As it sits now, if my house was paid off and I owed no other debts than utilities, food, insurance, those kinds of things on what my pension would bring, it would be tight. Now if I sold this place, took the money, ran to another affordable state, bought a place, invested the rest, I would pan out well.

 

[Wenchy]

What I don’t understand about Maryland is the lack of 55 and up communities. You can afford to work in Maryland but you cannot and will not be able to afford to retire here.

As it sits now, if my house was paid off and I owed no other debts than utilities, food, insurance, those kinds of things on what my pension would bring, it would be tight. Now if I sold this place, took the money, ran to another affordable state, bought a place, invested the rest, I would pan out well.

The scary thing in this area are the property taxes. The elderly on the fixed incomes can't afford the increases, and they can't afford to "remodel" their perfectly efficient homes. They sell for a pittance, and are left with nothing.

 

[oldman]

What I don’t understand about Maryland is the lack of 55 and up communities. You can afford to work in Maryland but you cannot and will not be able to afford to retire here.

As it sits now, if my house was paid off and I owed no other debts than utilities, food, insurance, those kinds of things on what my pension would bring, it would be tight. Now if I sold this place, took the money, ran to another affordable state, bought a place, invested the rest, I would pan out well.

Don't misunderstand, but it is not just Maryland anymore. I'm sure there are cheaper states but of the ones I'm aware of the prices are going up as each day passes. I have relatives/friends up and down the east coast and it's all unreal. My first wife is selling off part of her acreage in Maine to keep her taxes down, my last wife just sold her rental in Waldorf to cut down on costs, a cousin in Florida is a real estate agent and doing very well. The cost of everything is going up, including taxes, and I don't know where it will stop if ever. I have friends older than I am that have to work to have spending money and that's unAmerican in my opinion.

 

[willie]

The scary thing in this area are the property taxes. The elderly on the fixed incomes can't afford the increases, and they can't afford to "remodel" their perfectly efficient homes. They sell for a pittance, and are left with nothing.

Are you in Delaware or is that another forumite? Money magazine listed Delaware as one of the cheapest states to live.

 

[residentofcre]

I gave it karma too.

I'm going to check the karma before I read any more....

 

[residentofcre]

You know... I think I am just going to have to agree to disagree with a number of people in this thread....

I do want to clear up a minor problem that I saw happening in the thread...

My mother's family is Athey... Of Galway Ireland.... We came here 13 or 14 Generations ago... in the 1690's

My father's family is Nance... Of Paris.... they came to the United States around Mechlinburg County during the French Revolution.... and my Great or great great [something like that] grandmother was an American Indian....

I have roots and the timelines do match.... You can also find the information on Captain George Athey on SOMD.com as well as some Athey information in the library in Leonardtown ....

Traffic in Waldorf sucks and there's too many malls... parking lots....

Oh my y'all paved paradise and put in a parking lot in Waldorf.... I hate parking lots.... And you acuse me of wanting to build a Waldorf here.... I don't think so....

 

[Pete]

Don't misunderstand, but it is not just Maryland anymore. I'm sure there are cheaper states but of the ones I'm aware of the prices are going up as each day passes. I have relatives/friends up and down the east coast and it's all unreal. My first wife is selling off part of her acreage in Maine to keep her taxes down, my last wife just sold her rental in Waldorf to cut down on costs, a cousin in Florida is a real estate agent and doing very well. The cost of everything is going up, including taxes, and I don't know where it will stop if ever. I have friends older than I am that have to work to have spending money and that's unAmerican in my opinion.

I don't think that having to work in the golden years is unAmerican. Life expectancy has grown immensely as has "retirement". In the big picture "Retirement" is a relatively new deal for Americans. Not even 100 years ago there was no such thing as retirement. In most cases you worked until you died, unless of course you banked a lot of money or were wealthy. I don't think that Social Security has ever been advertised as a retirement plan that will pay for everything a happy active senior wants. It is a measure to prevent having streets full of hungry, homeless senior citizens. While it is acceptable to see Sally Struthers weep over poor starving people in Ethiopia, it is not acceptable here in America.

Taxes are a big issue. It is a zero sum gain issue which is why it is important that federal tax cuts are made permanent.

Our society has been on the track to socialism for a long time. Assisting the poor is necessary and noble but the federal government has moved past "assisting" and become a sole source of a living. Everyone looks to "Uncle Sugar" and the the federal government has taken full advantage of it and increased taxes to fund their giveaway programs. We have an entire class of our society who are professional mooches.

Taxes should be collected at the lowest level and spend within that jurisdiction so it can be properly applied to local needs, it does not need to be funneled to Washington to them be routed to build a bridge in W.Va that goes nowhere, or to fund snail darter habitat in a creek in Iowa. Now that the federal gov has cut taxes it does not have the money to redistribute back to the states, therefor the states increase taxes to make up for what they are not getting back. Here in lies the jeopardy. Since tax cuts, the states have increased taxes, if the tax cuts expire and go back up you will have the states now taxing at a higher level and the federal taxes going back up, a double whammy.

As far as affordable housing is concerned it is sad they always turn out the same but to stick your head in the sand and ignore the truth is ignorant. Affordable housing, section 8 and other government subsidized housing always turns into the same crime ridden run down money pit full of people who don't give a shiat because "It ain't mine". Once in place it attracts more and more and pretty soon you have cesspool. Property values go down, schools go to shiat, people move away, the tax base dies because section 8 inhabitants typically don't pay taxes. This is the recipe for killing an area.

The peoples Republic of Maine is an interesting example. Maine is a terribly liberal state and has a very large welfare/section 8 population. Wages are low, cost of living is high and the burden for the "entitlements" is spread across a much smaller population than most states. For that reason they tax the living shiat out of those who do get up and go to work and own property. When the federal government drew back funding the states Maine had to make up the difference and went and spanked the wage earners and property owners yet again. The property tax issue got so bad that there were angry mobs on the state house steps. I am not talking about 30 nut jobs with signs I am talking about thousands of long time, life long Maine residents. All the while the liberals in Maine are chanting for more "programs". Something is going to bust. People who own land in Maine like your sister are having to sell.

My former step daughter is a welfare queen in Maine. She moved to Delaware with her mother for a few months and went back to Maine because "She got WAY more in benefits in Maine and could not afford to live on welfare in Delaware" So what did we see here? Delaware does the smart thing. They send the problem back to Maine, let Maine pay for it.

This problem is like cancer with long tentacles that reach over into other issues. We have made it so easy here for people to live off the backs of others that it has caused in part the illegal immigration problem. We have an entire work force that will not work. They simply will not do it because it is "beneath them" to pick lettuce or ride on a garbage truck or cut grass. Who is going to blame the illegal Mexicans for coming in to fill the vacuum? Of course the government should police migrants better but if you have work there will be someone who will come do it even if it means that they will live 15 to a house and share a car.

Another thing that ghettos, irresponsible procreating and an entitlement society has caused is the lack of a legacy. In years passed families passed on a legacy in the form of occupation, property, farms, livelihood. Daddy Hardworking American broke up his 100 acres and passed it down to his 2 sons along with a lifetime of apprenticeship on how to work the land. So did Mr. Barbershop owner, Mr. Locksmith, Mr. Accountant, and Mr. Mechanic. When you have an entire segment that are multiplying like rabbits yet they have nothing, aspire to have nothing, and know nothing what is there to pass on except a legacy of mooching?

 

[Pete]

You know... I think I am just going to have to agree to disagree with a number of people in this thread....

I do want to clear up a minor problem that I saw happening in the thread...

My mother's family is Athey... Of Galway Ireland.... We came here 13 or 14 Generations ago... in the 1690's

My father's family is Nance... Of Paris.... they came to the United States around Mechlinburg County during the French Revolution.... and my Great or great great [something like that] grandmother was an American Indian....

I have roots and the timelines do match.... You can also find the information on Captain George Athey on SOMD.com as well as some Athey information in the library in Leonardtown ....

Traffic in Waldorf sucks and there's too many malls... parking lots....

Oh my y'all paved paradise and put in a parking lot in Waldorf.... I hate parking lots.... And you acuse me of wanting to build a Waldorf here.... I don't think so....

Your lineage is of very little concern to me. A bad position is a bad position whether it has been here 13 generations or it swam ashore this morning.

 

[residentofcre]

I am so sorry that this thread has been the source of so much bad feelings. I am proud, however, that this forum exists so we can discuss the matter..

I am not willing.... let me state that a little louder because I think the majority of your don't hear me...I am not willing.... to allow my home to be overrun with crime and violence.

I am well aware that some of you are afraid that helping someone who needs it will open a flood gate to those modern day carpetbaggers.....

I am talking about allowing the people who work hard and provide a service to this county to live here.... plain and simple.

I won't allow Calvert County to become a city or a ghetto.... I don't think anyone wants that... In Australia you can't become a citizen until you can prove that you are healthy and you will provide a valuable service.... if you can't prove that... then you are a tourist.... a backpacker....

I am for affordable housing... for those who provide a service to this county..that is what I have always considered a favorable stance on affordable housing to be.

Every child deserves a chance to play in the sunshine or read a book under a shade tree....

 

[CableChick]

Every child deserves a chance to play in the sunshine or read a book under a shade tree....

This just stuck out .. but I"m in a rush and will read more later.

I really don't think this is the deciding factor on how a child turns out. Sunshine is not exclusive to areas other than cities. And a child should read a book whether or not it's under a tree. I'm glad I can provide the tree to my child, but I work my butt off for it and the money I work for is mine. I will decide on who and what I give it to .... not my elected officials.

 

[cdsulhoff]

She continues to state "Every child deserves a chance to play in the sunshine or read a book under a shade tree...."

Kids everywhere have sunshine to play in, unless they are raised in a cave. This I feel is a weak reason for having affordable housing.
You state that you do not want to allow your home to be overrun with crime and violence. Well then why are you for affordable housing. There are other outlet and resources that can be taken without handing them a place to live.
I am a strong believer of that you do not respect thing that are handed to you. A person that work and earn their treasure of life will be more respectful of the things in their lives.
The Gov. need to work on helping them out by educating them. No one put them in the situation but themselves. Many need help in learning how to manage money, or learn how to obtain a better job. I have always been for educating people to help them obtain a better life on their own sweat and tears. Hand out are only abused!
I have seen too many in my life where people who receive a hand out tend to expect the hand out. Then they turn to excuses of why they cannot get ahead. Reason they are use to having things handed to them.
My hubby and I fell short many times in our younger years trying to survive. Nevertheless, we manage to get through it. Without help!!

These single moms’s as you would say, can go to the state for finance help for a mortgage. There are also Housing choice vouchers. However, as far as building affordable housing I am strongly against the idea. What about providing a service that can match “single moms” with another “single mom” to share a house? There are services that provide that. They can seek out many other resources.

Below are sources that I looked into about the other resources available to these “ Single Mom’s”.

House sharing: http://www.co-abode.org/
Information about state help: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/mtg/20001102a.asp
Housing Vouchers: http://www.hud.gov/offices/pih/programs/hcv/index.cfm

 

[Pete]

I am so sorry that this thread has been the source of so much bad feelings. I am proud, however, that this forum exists so we can discuss the matter..

I am not willing.... let me state that a little louder because I think the majority of your don't hear me...I am not willing.... to allow my home to be overrun with crime and violence.

This is the crux, one begets the other. If you allow developments of low income housing you will get crime and violence and drugs. Deny it, talk around it, ignore it, doesn't change the outcome.

I am well aware that some of you are afraid that helping someone who needs it will open a flood gate to those modern day carpetbaggers.....

Carpetbaggers? What people are worried about is some feel good, mamby pamby program that creates a habitat for people who will detract from their communities.

I am talking about allowing the people who work hard and provide a service to this county to live here.... plain and simple.

Well this sounds great, so how do you propose the county differenciate between people who want to work and contrubute to the community and those who want to latch on like a leech? A questionaire? Border stations? An interview with a county official before approving immigration into the county? Maybe they sign a statement swearing to not be a burden?

I won't allow Calvert County to become a city or a ghetto.... I don't think anyone wants that... In Australia you can't become a citizen until you can prove that you are healthy and you will provide a valuable service.... if you can't prove that... then you are a tourist.... a backpacker....

So you will have an application process for residency for Calvert? Excellent, until the ACLU comes in and sues the bejeebers out of the county.

I am for affordable housing... for those who provide a service to this county..that is what I have always considered a favorable stance on affordable housing to be.

Again there is no way to sort through and decide who is going to be productive and who wont. It is pie in the sky to think you can. Even if they had the answer tatoo'd on their foreheads if someone wants to move into Calvert you cannot stop them. If a place is created that is artificially inexpensive they will flock there.

If the county relaxes the zoning and allows builders to throw up multi unit high density low cost housing it will fill up.

Every child deserves a chance to play in the sunshine or read a book under a shade tree....

Isn't that special...........it is the PARENTS job to provide that, NOT the government.

 

[Kain99]

This is the crux, one begets the other. If you allow developments of low income housing you will get crime and violence and drugs. Deny it, talk around it, ignore it, doesn't change the outcome.

It may be ugly but it's true.

You cannot have the best of both worlds. Low income housing will attract all of the wrong types of people. Not the kind of people you want around your kids playing in the sunshine.

 

[Pete]

I am sure these folks don't live in the middle class / up scale neighborhood.

http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?t=76493