Age of the world

[2ndAmendment]

keep up, we were talking about the wacko in waco

I wasn't.

 

[2ndAmendment]

My point is that the truth of any religious holy book is a matter of personal faith. No such book is true for everyone just because some people believe it is.

Or, as I believe, one book, the Bible, is absolutely true and many, like you, choose not to believe it.

You can go on, but I am done. Just because you do not believe does not make the Bible any less Truth.

 

[cholo]

Age of the world 04-21-2006 03:19 PM who's your daddy?
Age of the world 04-21-2006 03:18 PM who's your daddy?
Age of the world 04-21-2006 03:17 PM who's your daddy?
Age of the world 04-21-2006 03:17 PM who's your daddy?
Age of the world 04-21-2006 03:16 PM who's your daddy?
Age of the world 04-21-2006 02:31 PM Add something or please don't post. - 2A

Well done, 2A. Let me know if you still believe in your Bible and your God after you're dead and lying in a casket six feet under and not prancing around in some fairyland Heaven.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Well done, 2A. Let me know if you still believe in your Bible and your God after you're dead and lying in a casket six feet under and not prancing around in some fairyland Heaven.

Tell me you don't believe in God when you find yourself bowing before Him.

 

[cholo]

Tell me you don't believe in God when you find yourself bowing before Him.

If HE ever shows HIS face to me, I'll ask HIM where the HELL he was when my family needed HIM.

 

[2ndAmendment]

If HE ever shows HIS face to me, I'll ask HIM where the HELL he was when my family needed HIM.

I am sure He was there if you called on Him. He loves you. We often pray. We always get an answer. We forget that sometimes the answer is no.

I am sorry for your pain. Something terrible must have happened. I pray that you can find a way to love God again as He still loves you.

 

[wxtornado]

And there is fossil evidence that scientists will not regard because they contradict their preconceived notions.

Can you cite your source for this please?

 

[itsbob]

I'll go out on a limb and speculate that according to Ice core strata (which I feel is FAR more reliable than radioactive isotopes)

45,000 max....very possibly less,...and only a slim chance older.

About two weeks ago.. ice core sample dated over 1 MILLION years old,, I've been looking for this post (granted not to hard a search) since I heard the announcement on the news.. I think they said 1.5 million years old.

So that blows your theory all to hell don't it?

 

[Larry Gude]

Ouch!

Just ask Otter!!

 

[rraley]

To say the earth is 6,000 years old is an unreasoned and unenlightened judgement that does not come from faith in God, but rather in the faith pushed on us by fundamentalist preachers. I do not see why many fellow Christians do not understand that God does not seek to have the Bible dictate what we think, but rather for it to provoke our thought. It was not written as a literal story of everything that has ever happened in the history of the earth. It was written as a metaphorical collection of stories based on some fact that help people reach a better understanding of God and His ways, especially Hebrew Scriptures. What people should understand is that the Bible is not written like a biography or a newspaper report. Yes, it does contain facts, but there are historical ambiguities and contradictions. These ambiguities make it clear that indeed the true purpose of Scriptures is not to answer "who, what, where, and how?", but to answer "why?".

The evidence for evolution and an earth that is around five billion years old is overwhelming and convincing. The Catholic Church has stated that evolution is a compelling scientific theory that is compatible with the teaching that God created the earth. God did not provide the Bible so we could remove all of our reasoning skills. Rather, God seeks for us to live a balanced life that combines faith and reason and that challenges us to push our faith and to have unique journeys. The Bible is the key guide in our journey and as 2A says, it is indeed Truth. This Truth, however, is not shown in a literal fashion; it is shown in an interpretative fashion that is supposed to affect each one of us differently so we can grow closer to God.

 

[2ndAmendment]

To say the earth is 6,000 years old is an unreasoned and unenlightened judgement that does not come from faith in God, but rather in the faith pushed on us by fundamentalist preachers. I do not see why many fellow Christians do not understand that God does not seek to have the Bible dictate what we think, but rather for it to provoke our thought. It was not written as a literal story of everything that has ever happened in the history of the earth. It was written as a metaphorical collection of stories based on some fact that help people reach a better understanding of God and His ways, especially Hebrew Scriptures. What people should understand is that the Bible is not written like a biography or a newspaper report. Yes, it does contain facts, but there are historical ambiguities and contradictions. These ambiguities make it clear that indeed the true purpose of Scriptures is not to answer "who, what, where, and how?", but to answer "why?".

The evidence for evolution and an earth that is around five billion years old is overwhelming and convincing. The Catholic Church has stated that evolution is a compelling scientific theory that is compatible with the teaching that God created the earth. God did not provide the Bible so we could remove all of our reasoning skills. Rather, God seeks for us to live a balanced life that combines faith and reason and that challenges us to push our faith and to have unique journeys. The Bible is the key guide in our journey and as 2A says, it is indeed Truth. This Truth, however, is not shown in a literal fashion; it is shown in an interpretative fashion that is supposed to affect each one of us differently so we can grow closer to God.

We disagree.

I repeat. If even one part of the Bible is not completely trustworthy, then none of it is to be trusted. If the account of creation is not true then neither is the plan of salvation.

I choose to believe it is all true, completely, without exception. If that makes me stupid, I'd rather be stupid for God than deemed smart by men.

1 Corinthians 2

Paul's Reliance upon the Spirit
1And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God.

2For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

3I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling,

4and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

5so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

6Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away;

7but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;

9but just as it is written,
"THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD,
AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."

10For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.

11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,

13which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[czygvtwkr]

Is a year to God the same as a year to man? Maybe man just doesn't exactly understand what God is saying, after all we are not perfect.

 

[rraley]

We do disagree, 2A.

Doesn't change the fact that you are not interpreting Scripture correctly and that you still don't get that I'm not saying God didn't create the world, which is the main driving force behind Genesis' story of creation. The other is that humans fell from God's grace. Whether this meant that it was in a Garden or if we evolved over millions of years DOES NOT matter in God's eyes. I just believe that your way of looking at Scripture is incomplete and does not lead a deeper, insightful understand of theological events.

But it is part of your faith journey, so no big deal. I just wish that you would stop passing your way off as the only way and that those who do not endorse it are headed for Hell.

 

[bcp]

I agree with 2A on this one.
Where I stand back and question is in mans interpretation of the lenght of a day or a year during the first years.

I also tend not to believe totally the theory of carbon dating, or of the Ice core samples, these are only tools created by man.

The Bible tells us that we will be tested, and our free will allows us to respond to the test however we wish. I think that the dating of the earth to disprove the validity of the Bible is yet just another test that we must personally take.

I dont question the Bible, or do I question what is in store for us when we shed our bodies.
I do question the answers and the facts that man comes up with to explain away the word of God.

Perhaps questioning mans answers is wrong in the eyes of some, but as 2a pointed out, Im going to be on earth for 80 years max then its over. If Im wrong (and I doubt that I am) I just cease to exist and dont really care.
But if Im right, (and I assure you that I am) I move on to eternal life.

Given the choice of hotels to stay at after death, I think Im going to put in my reservations for the one with the better veiw and the functioning A/C

 

[2ndAmendment]

We do disagree, 2A.

Doesn't change the fact that you are not interpreting Scripture correctly and that you still don't get that I'm not saying God didn't create the world, which is the main driving force behind Genesis' story of creation. The other is that humans fell from God's grace. Whether this meant that it was in a Garden or if we evolved over millions of years DOES NOT matter in God's eyes. I just believe that your way of looking at Scripture is incomplete and does not lead a deeper, insightful understand of theological events.

But it is part of your faith journey, so no big deal. I just wish that you would stop passing your way off as the only way and that those who do not endorse it are headed for Hell.

Could it be that you are the one that is not interpreting Scripture correctly?

And the faith in God a person has is the biggest deal of the person's entire life.

If I am right and your are wrong, what is your ultimate destination?

I'll just be stupid and believe the Bible.

 

[rraley]

Could it be that you are the one that is not interpreting Scripture correctly?

And the faith in God a person has is the biggest deal of the person's entire life.

If I am right and your are wrong, what is your ultimate destination?

I'll just be stupid and believe the Bible.

Yes, it could be. The thing is that you aren't doing any interpreting.

If I am wrong and you are right, I think our ultimate destination will be based on Jesus' questioning whether we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, made peace where there was none, etc. It will not hinge on how we interpret Scripture.

I'll just be smart and say faith is a beginning, not the end-all and be-all. If you do not challenge it, study it, reason with it, you don't have a fulfilling, insightful experience.

 

[bcp]

If I am wrong and you are right, I think our ultimate destination will be based on Jesus' questioning whether we fed the hungry, clothed the naked, made peace where there was none, etc. It will not hinge on how we interpret Scripture.

"I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." -- Jesus Christ (John 14:6)


not really too much to interpret here now is there.
You can be as nice and humble and giving as the Pope, but if you dont believe in Jesus Christ as your saviour, it just is not going to work well in the end.

 

[Hessian]

Ice...

Thanks for that posting of 1,000,000 years...however...
just to ask for a little clarity: did they say HOW did they date the sample?
was it traces of carbon? (not likely since C14 is unreliable beyond 100.000)
was it Potassium-Argon? Cesium90?

or did they actually count 1 million striation lines of accumulated frozen deposit?

As long as scientists are willing to believe in the continuity of radioctive isotope decay as a constant...um, they are denying other physical evidence that points to massive cataclism (sp) & major alterations of isotope debris.

How about that 55 million year old polar tropical forest they just trumpetted this past week....DID ANYONE--hear what their dating method was?
Anybody?

I know why they aren't talking.

 

[rraley]

"I am the way the truth and the life; NO MAN cometh unto the Father BUT BY ME." -- Jesus Christ (John 14:6)


not really too much to interpret here now is there.
You can be as nice and humble and giving as the Pope, but if you dont believe in Jesus Christ as your saviour, it just is not going to work well in the end.

I agree, I didn't say that I thought we should disregard Christ as the Savior. My point is that we are not obligated to believe every single "historical" statement of the Bible.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I agree, I didn't say that I thought we should disregard Christ as the Savior. My point is that we are not obligated to believe every single "historical" statement of the Bible.

And that is where we depart. If the Bible, any part of it, is not true and cannot be believed, then what parts do you believe? Who chooses? Each person? Where does that lead? Not to faith.

Faith is just that, believing when there is no logical reason of man to believe.

The old Christian riddle is true.
      How much faith does an angel have?
      None.
      They don't need any. They live before the face of God.

You don't need faith for things you can prove or see. You need faith for what you can't see or prove.

Remember what Jesus said to Thomas.

John 20:24-29

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."

26After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you."

27Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."

28Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

29Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

I didn't see, but I believe. I don't have to decide what verse is right or what verse is "wrong." I just accept by faith that the Bible is the word of God and therefore all of it is right and true. Simple. Easy. Not smart by man's standards, but that is OK.