Age of the world

[Hessian]

Thanks Turdin...

I found the article interesting. I was aware of the first remains (found 20 years ago) and seem to recall that they initially dated it to 20 million.
Now, we are at 45 million to 60 million ya.

I just e-mailed the Professor and asked if he could tell me his dating method since again: it was NOWHERE in the article.

Regarding the Smithsonian and its perpetuating of "Old" models...
Great read is: Bones of Contention--shows how the models put forth by the various forensic anthropologists have bitterly conflicted and led to heated debates and paper-counter paper fights.
Yes, science is always refining: good!...its just bad when it is being driven by powerful egos who constantly snipe at each other.

Ie..every paleoanthropologist tries to validate Java man---but the amusing 2 bone collection, found 30 +yards apart over a year between the two finds as well as the bizarre behavior of the expedition leader only adds further doubt to this "missing link."

 

[2ndAmendment]

I clicked on 2A's links and found an article that says the Great Flood of Noah was the cause of rapid fossilization. The article contends that Noah's flood lasted for a year. But doesn't that statement itself conflict with the Bible, which (metaphorically, but nothing is metaphorical in the Bible according to the ever-righteous 2A) states that Noah's float lasted for forty days and forty nights? It seems like the author of the article is "picking and choosing" the Truth as 2A contends that I am doing.

Once again, the Bible is metaphorical and it is meant to convey existential truth as opposed to concrete historical fact. It leads to a deeper understanding of God and Jesus as the Savior. If you look at it like a book report or a newspaper article, well you aren't getting the full effect.

The Bible says it rained for forty days and forty nights. The flood lasted longer.

Genisis 7:4 "For after seven more days, I will send rain on the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will blot out from the face of the land every living thing that I have made."

Genisis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened.

Genisis 7:24 The water prevailed upon the earth one hundred and fifty days.

Genisis 8:1-14

1But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the cattle that were with him in the ark; and God caused a wind to pass over the earth, and the water subsided.

2Also the fountains of the deep and the floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was restrained;

3and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased.

4In the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat.

5The water decreased steadily until the tenth month; in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, the tops of the mountains became visible.

6Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made;

7and he sent out a raven, and it flew here and there until the water was dried up from the earth.

8Then he sent out a dove from him, to see if the water was abated from the face of the land;

9but the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, so she returned to him into the ark, for the water was on the surface of all the earth. Then he put out his hand and took her, and brought her into the ark to himself.

10So he waited yet another seven days; and again he sent out the dove from the ark.

11The dove came to him toward evening, and behold, in her beak was a freshly picked olive leaf. So Noah knew that the water was abated from the earth.

12Then he waited yet another seven days, and sent out the dove; but she did not return to him again.

13Now it came about in the six hundred and first year, in the first month, on the first of the month, the water was dried up from the earth. Then Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and behold, the surface of the ground was dried up.

14In the second month, on the twenty-seventh day of the month, the earth was dry.

So the flood prevailed for 150 days and then receded for 150 days but was not completely dry for a while yet. Rain started in the second month and the ark rested on Ararat on the 7th month. Then there is more time accounted for after that. Sounds like about a year to me. Helps when you actually read the Bible to know what it says.

Thanks for declaring me self-righteous, but I have never claimed any righteousness except that that is given me through salvation through Jesus. All honor, glory, and power are God's and God's alone.

 

[2ndAmendment]

What's really interesting is how God seemed to kill off all the other fish and birds that Noah didn't take into the ark.

Sorry, wrong about the fish. The Bible says nothing I can see about the fish in the account of the flood.

Genisis 7:22 of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.

Birds need food and rest. They can fly a long time, but a whole year without food and a place to land? Nah. They are going to die. Ever see what happens to birds caught in a hurricane? Dead. Hurricanes are relatively local compared to a world wide storm.

How long can you tread water in a hurricane?

 

[2ndAmendment]

...
Ie..every paleoanthropologist tries to validate Java man---but the amusing 2 bone collection, found 30 +yards apart over a year between the two finds as well as the bizarre behavior of the expedition leader only adds further doubt to this "missing link."

And the fact that each anthropologist is competing for grant dollars, so they have to be better than the other guy. Also, weren't the Java man fossils collected in a wash (dried water flow)? Isn't that against common convention since the artifacts (two) could have been washed by water from anywhere and "aged" by abrasive action of aggregates (sand, gravel) and water? I think it is.

 

[supersurfer]

Sorry, wrong about the fish. The Bible says nothing I can see about the fish in the account of the flood.
Birds need food and rest. They can fly a long time, but a whole year without food and a place to land? Nah. They are going to die. Ever see what happens to birds caught in a hurricane? Dead. Hurricanes are relatively local compared to a world wide storm.

How long can you tread water in a hurricane?

And you're saying that the animals did in fact separate themselves into pairs all over the earth and hike a journey to Noah's ark (Polar bears, toads, lions, zebra, crayfish, moles, parakeets, flamingos, etc...) before the rain began, then afterwards, they landed safely on a mountain and all those animals then redistributed themselves back to their native habitats round the globe, (giraffes to Africa, sealions to the Antarctic, buffalo to the plains of middle America, camels to the Middle East, etc..)

 

[Hessian]

Just got an inital response from the Canadian prof...

Talk about evasive..I quote:

"??What is the context of this request??"
JFB

I kindly e-mailed back and asked a second time: please tell me your dating method.
I will gladly post any reply he offers.
Regards,
Hessian.

 

[rraley]

Here's another piece of Biblical evidence that adds to the idea of its metaphorical bent.

2 Peter 3:8

But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

So the six day creation story could have meant thousands of years, or millions. The Bible is written so God's wisdom can be understood by Man, therefore there are some parts that are metaphorical in nature.

 

[dustin]

:nelsonlaugh: Haha you guys are debating over how old the earth is... DORKS!!!

 

[2ndAmendment]

And you're saying that the animals did in fact separate themselves into pairs all over the earth and hike a journey to Noah's ark (Polar bears, toads, lions, zebra, crayfish, moles, parakeets, flamingos, etc...) before the rain began, then afterwards, they landed safely on a mountain and all those animals then redistributed themselves back to their native habitats round the globe, (giraffes to Africa, sealions to the Antarctic, buffalo to the plains of middle America, camels to the Middle East, etc..)

Last time I checked, a crayfish is not a land animal, but yes. God is God and is able to do anything including getting lions to sleep with gazelle.

 

[Pandora]

:nelsonlaugh: Haha you guys are debating over how old the earth is... DORKS!!!

I had an entire page typed up in word the other day on this topic and still couldn’t get out all my thoughts without writing a novel, so I stopped. And really, it all depends on whether you believe in the “young” Earth or “old” Earth view, but nobody really knows do they?

But one thing is for sure, it doesn’t matter if the Earth is 10 billion years old or 10,000 years old, neither idea supports Evolution.

 

[itsbob]

God didn't build the Ark, a man named Noah did.. God didn't gather up the animals a man did.. now granted 6000 years ago, men lived 600 years, but still..

Of course the bible was written when everyone thought the world was flat, they knew nothing about the animals on the other continents, or that there were continents other then the one they lived on.. if the bible was a true accounting it would mention the animals from North and South America.. Australia, the North and South poles.. but it doesn't because the bible is a literary work written by more men that knew nothing more then any other mortal man on the planet at the time..

So this man Noah, had to build an Ark large enough to fit two of every animal in it.. EVERY animal.. of course if you believed in evolution it might be a viable idea.. he kept maybe 50 pairs, and the rest evolved from inter species development and evolution, but people of faith don't believe in evolution..

The idea of NOah's ark was believable when I was 6, not so much now..

 

[Pandora]

So, we are all just products of something that crawled out from under some rock? Life has no meaning? We go do this for NOTHING?

I'm sorry, that just doesn’t nor has it ever sat well with me. I know there is a higher power and purpose. There just has to be. Even the Bible encourages us to have faith like a child. Why? Could it be because nobody can or will ever understand the complexities of the universe we live in?

 

[itsbob]

Even the Bible encourages us to have faith like a child. Why? Could it be because nobody can or will ever understand the complexities of the universe we live in?

No because they don't want you to question it, or research it, or look at the science, "Just believe what we tell you, everything you need to know is in the bible, now give us our 10%"

These are the same people that think the Scientologists are nut cases.. but if they are nuts enough to believe EVERYTHING that is in the bible, then they should be willing to believe what the Scientologists do.. it's no more far fetched..

 

[Pandora]

We’ve had this discussion about giving 10% before. I do give 10% back to society, some of that to the church, some of that to Hospice, drug rehabs, children’s aid, because I believe that all these services, which are usually ran by religious organization, are considered “the church.”

Over the past year, against the grain of my family, other than my husband, we are non-denominational and attend a church that is non-denominational. Nobody has ever chased us down and asked us for 10% of our wages. If a church asked me to do that, I would find the closest door and never return again. This is why I am no longer a member of the Catholic church.

The people I’ve known in the past who run these churches, of any religion, do not have life styles that are above and beyond mine. In fact, they are highly educated and could have ventured out to make a lucrative living in the dirt world. Granted, they are not all that way but the ones I’ve known have been.

 

[itsbob]

The people I’ve known in the past who run these churches, of any religion, do not have life styles that are above and beyond mine. In fact, they are highly educated and could have ventured out to make a lucrative living in the dirt world. Granted, they are not all that way but the ones I’ve known have been.

True, but some churches are rich beyond belief. They depend on people to run the church for little or no money, as the leaders of the church live in "hollywood" style.. mansions, limo's, millions if not BILLIONS of dollars of artwork decorating their palatial homes.

It was said, as the local diocese were closing churches and selling off property to protect the church during the sex abuse cses, that the main church, the Vatican, could have sold ONE piece of art in it's massive collection and would have covered al the cost.. Which brings into mind a couple of questions.. one, why does the church need to collect art in the first place... two. Where did the art come from, as I don't recollect at any time the church "purchaisng" any art. three, it's been said before, if the church didn't cover it up since day one, they wouldn't have had to finance all the lawsuits..

 

[itsbob]

And I don't mean JUST the Catholic Church... most churches are like this..

The Mormon Church, one of the younest churches on the planet, is the second richest after the Catholics. They are totally volunteer run.. The local Bishops still have "regular" jobs, they run the local churches on their free time.. NOBODY locally makes any money from the church, they collect all the local tithe and send it up the line to the main body of the church.

 

[itsbob]

and if their were true faith, the Pope wouldn't need a bullet proof car, or body guards.. his faith would be in God, and God would protect him, or maybe the Pope knows something we don't?

 

[Toxick]

and if their were true faith, the Pope wouldn't need a bullet proof car, or body guards.. his faith would be in God, and God would protect him, or maybe the Pope knows something we don't?

Maybe His Excellency knows that God helps those who help themselves. God COULD stop bullets. But in my experience he usually doesn't.



'Minds me of something I heard recently:

During Katrina, as the flood waters rose, a man was on the roof of his house sitting on a folding chair waiting for deliverance. A boat came along, and the guy on the boat said: "Come on, we're getting out of here"

The man replied: "No, I will wait here. I have faith in God, and nothing bad will happen to me."


Later, the water is up to his waist, and another boat comes along: "Come on, and get in! We're all headed to safety!"

The man replied: "No, I am safe. God will protect me"

Later, as the water is up to the man's neck, a helicopter comes along and drops a ladder to him: "Climb up!" said the guys in the helicopter.

"I do not need help. God won't let harm come to me."



So, he drowns.


He makes it to heaven, and starts searching for God. He finds Him, and as he's standing before The Creator, he asks: "Lord?! How could you let me die? I placed my trust in you, and you still let me die!"


And God says: "What do you mean, 'let you die'? I sent two boats and a helicopter!"

 

[itsbob]

Maybe His Excellency knows that God helps those who help themselves. God COULD stop bullets. But in my experience he usually doesn't.



'Minds me of something I heard recently:

During Katrina, as the flood waters rose, a man was on the roof of his house sitting on a folding chair waiting for deliverance. A boat came along, and the guy on the boat said: "Come on, we're getting out of here"

The man replied: "No, I will wait here. I have faith in God, and nothing bad will happen to me."


Later, the water is up to his waist, and another boat comes along: "Come on, and get in! We're all headed to safety!"

The man replied: "No, I am safe. God will protect me"

Later, as the water is up to the man's neck, a helicopter comes along and drops a ladder to him: "Climb up!" said the guys in the helicopter.

"I do not need help. God won't let harm come to me."



So, he drowns.


He makes it to heaven, and starts searching for God. He finds Him, and as he's standing before The Creator, he asks: "Lord?! How could you let me die? I placed my trust in you, and you still let me die!"


And God says: "What do you mean, 'let you die'? I sent two boats and a helicopter!"

I heard that 20 years ago.. well before Katrina

Another "example" built on fiction to make non-believers believe.

And what if God's intent WAS for the Pope to be assassinated, and the steps he took to protect himself were in fact detrimental to God's plan??

EVERYTHING is God's work supposedly.. nothing happens without his knowledge or his "doing" so if you prevent your assassination you are getting in the way of God's plan for you to BE assassinated.

I know your answer.. god would smite him with a heart attack if that was the case.. or a mysterious ailment.. or a bush would talk to the pope and tell him to take his own life. He would just find another way to kill him... but that wouldn't be God's original plan would it?

Kind of like the serpent and the Garden Of Eden.. taking a bite of the apple could not hae been a sin, because it was part of God's plan for man to become Mortal.. it was ALL his plan.. but some churches say this was the unholiest of sins..

 

[Toxick]

I heard that 20 years ago.. well before Katrina

Well, excuse me.

I know your answer..

No, you don't.

You don't know anything about me.