Alcohol and cigarettes...

[briancpest]

Well, the entire argument of whether the nation you live in is democratic or not, and whether you should follow the old anecdote of "love it or leave it" can be left for another thread entirely...

As for children not knowing that they shouldn't break the law, that's ridiculous. As parents, that's your responsibility to teach your children (and, we're talking about TEENS as well since in this topic, anyone under 21 is involved) right from wrong. And, that's also why there are school systems. Children are taught very young the difference between right and wrong, and breaking the law is always the top of the list of wrongs.

Not to mention that it's required for students to take some form of government class in school, outlining the laws and rights given to them. If you have a child over 13 years old that, in your eyes, shouldn't be expected to follow the laws and regulations of our American Government, maybe that's a singular explanation for why society has gone to hell.

 

[PsyOps]

As for children not knowing that they shouldn't break the law, that's ridiculous. As parents, that's your responsibility to teach your children (and, we're talking about TEENS as well since in this topic, anyone under 21 is involved) right from wrong. And, that's also why there are school systems. Children are taught very young the difference between right and wrong, and breaking the law is always the top of the list of wrongs.

It’s not a matter of knowing what’s right from wrong, it’s about having the capacity to truly understand the consequences. That’s why a 16 year old is still considered a minor and under the responsibility of the parent. It’s been determined they don’t have the tools (in a completely learned capacity) to make these decisions. Heck, this case has proven that adults don’t really have it, and you expect kids to?

Not to mention that it's required for students to take some form of government class in school, outlining the laws and rights given to them. If you have a child over 13 years old that, in your eyes, shouldn't be expected to follow the laws and regulations of our American Government, maybe that's a singular explanation for why society has gone to hell.

Which explains why this particular problem happened.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well...

Not to mention that it's required for students to take some form of government class in school, outlining the laws and rights given to them. If you have a child over 13 years old that, in your eyes, shouldn't be expected to follow the laws and regulations of our American Government, maybe that's a singular explanation for why society has gone to hell.

...let's look at the law and societies problems and maybe see if that bears out.

What are a few of our major problems that relate directly to breaking the law?

 

[Tinkerbell]

I'd rather my kid smoke a cigarette and drive home than drink some booze and then drive home. Also, Vrai brought up a good point about the kid getting so drunk, someone could take advantage of them. Like Pixie said, it's mind altering. Don't know of anyone who's taken advantage of after smoking cigarettes. I would rather my kid didn't smoke, but if I had to pick one - I'd rather they smoke. It probably doesn't help that I grew up with a horribly alcoholic father and I've seen what alcohol does to a person, not just physically, but mentally as well. It's NOT pretty.

 

[Nanny Pam]

If I discovered my kid doing these things under the supervision of an adult, we'd both be in jail by COB. Them for contributing to the delinquency of a minor; me for aggravated assault.

Same here.

 

[PsyOps]

It probably doesn't help that I grew up with a horribly alcoholic father and I've seen what alcohol does to a person, not just physically, but mentally as well. It's NOT pretty.

I have an aunt who is dying a horribly painful death from lung cancer and she smoked (I expect Vrai to jump in on this...YOU CAN'T PROVE IT CAUSES LUNG CANCER... ).

 

[heavenly was]

My awnser was cancer stix. This is because I learned that the first time you inhale a smoke that it destroys all the little hairs in your throat and lungs and turns them into george lucas. I mean mucus. Plus, cancer stix make you get cancer and also they make you turn all shrivelly and make girls sound like a man. And this one guy I know he did too many and he talks like he is talking through a sponge. And another one talks without talking, he has this thing that makes him sound like a robot. I wish I had one of those because I would make a good robot. Alcohol is still bad i think but not quite.

 

[Ken King]

Plus, cancer stix make you get cancer

So every single person that has ever smoked has cancer?

 

[heavenly was]

So every single person that has ever smoked has cancer?

Well not yet.

 

[Chain729]

My awnser was cancer stix. This is because I learned that the first time you inhale a smoke that it destroys all the little hairs in your throat and lungs and turns them into george lucas. I mean mucus. Plus, cancer stix make you get cancer and also they make you turn all shrivelly and make girls sound like a man. And this one guy I know he did too many and he talks like he is talking through a sponge. And another one talks without talking, he has this thing that makes him sound like a robot. I wish I had one of those because I would make a good robot. Alcohol is still bad i think but not quite.

PillZ-E, I think you need to have your meds updated.

 

[heavenly was]

PillZ-E, I think you need to have your meds updated.

Please explain your reasoning behind this post.

 

[pixiegirl]

I have an aunt who is dying a horribly painful death from lung cancer and she smoked (I expect Vrai to jump in on this...YOU CAN'T PROVE IT CAUSES LUNG CANCER... ).

Well... I'd like you to meet my brother who at 31 already has serrosis (sp?) of the liver and who's too drunk all the time to care to see a doctor and my mother who has been in the medical profession for 30+ years gives him 10 years to live.

My grandmother died of lung cancer at the age of 76 (I think. it may have been 75 or 78.) After over 50 years of smoking 2+ packs of Pall Mall cigarettes a day.

Neither is good for you but cigarettes take a lot longer and a lot more to kill you.

 

[Chain729]

Please explain your reasoning behind this post.

It's not as funny when it lands behind you


Not that it'll help much, but here you go: http://www.illwillpress.com

 

[heavenly was]

It's not as funny when it lands behind you


Not that it'll help much, but here you go: http://www.illwillpress.com

I still don't understand.

 

[Chain729]

I still don't understand.

You go surfing in Nebraska, don't you?

 

[heavenly was]

You go surfing in Nebraska, don't you?

No, I usually go to the beaches of cheyenne.

 

[Vince]

Well... I'd like you to meet my brother who at 31 already has serrosis (sp?) of the liver and who's too drunk all the time to care to see a doctor and my mother who has been in the medical profession for 30+ years gives him 10 years to live.

My grandmother died of lung cancer at the age of 76 (I think. it may have been 75 or 78.) After over 50 years of smoking 2+ packs of Pall Mall cigarettes a day.

Neither is good for you but cigarettes take a lot longer and a lot more to kill you.

My mother died of cancer at 82 and never smoked a day in her life. So go figure. :shrug:

 

[PsyOps]

Well... I'd like you to meet my brother who at 31 already has serrosis (sp?) of the liver and who's too drunk all the time to care to see a doctor and my mother who has been in the medical profession for 30+ years gives him 10 years to live.

My grandmother died of lung cancer at the age of 76 (I think. it may have been 75 or 78.) After over 50 years of smoking 2+ packs of Pall Mall cigarettes a day.

Neither is good for you but cigarettes take a lot longer and a lot more to kill you.

I guess we've proven the dangers of both. IMO you can drink safely, in moderation with no ill-effects (generally speaking). I don't think you can do that with smoking. But I would agree that if you are going to abuse yourself with excessive drinking you will find the grave much quicker than the average smoker. BUT... compare the average smoker to the average drinker (those that do both moderately) I think you will find more die from the effects of cigarettes than alcohol.

I know, I know Vrai... I can't prove smoking causes cancer...

 

[Chain729]

Neither is good for you but cigarettes take a lot longer and a lot more to kill you.

Great grandfather died at 85. He'd been a full-blown alcoholic since he was in the single digits. Autopsy didn't find a thing wrong from drinking- liver or otherwise.

On the otherhand, one of aunt's drank away her pancreas and gets to spend the rest of her life on pain killers and disabled- but she did stop drinking.

You can't make a blanket statement like that. Not everyone's body reacts the same way; there's exceptions to everything.

 

[pixiegirl]

I guess we've proven the dangers of both. IMO you can drink safely, in moderation with no ill-effects (generally speaking). I don't think you can do that with smoking. But I would agree that if you are going to abuse yourself with excessive drinking you will find the grave much quicker than the average smoker. BUT... compare the average smoker to the average drinker (those that do both moderately) I think you will find more die from the effects of cigarettes than alcohol.

I know, I know Vrai... I can't prove smoking causes cancer...

What do you consider a moderate smoker or drinker? I smoke about a half pack of cigarettes a week and usually have either a glass of wine with dinner OR a couple of drinks after my kids are asleep. On the weekends I typically indulge more for both.

I don't plan on dying by either since to me I'm a "light" smoker and a moderate drinker. But that's my perception. To my BF's mother who doesn't smoke at all and rarely drinks. We're both alcoholoics because we drink more than once a week.

I'd venture to say that more mothers bury their children due to alcohol than due to cigarettes and the point of the thread was from a parents perspective. If I have a child that's smoking a cigarette the mortality rate is far less than if I have a child that's drinking.