Amber Frey claims to read the Bible
- Thread starter 2ndAmendment
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Kain99
Guest
I feel strongly, that sometimes it is the teacher who must be taught.... 2A is a great guy! He's just a little off track.
workin hard
Icebox
I'm a Catholic who hardly ever makes it to church to be honest with ya. But I believe that if basically I'm a good person and do what is ethically and morally right then I will be rewarded in the end. I can't stand people who hide behind the Bible to judge and be nit picky. That is being hypocritical because they are going against one of the main beliefs of the Bible.crabcake said:
workin hard
Icebox
crabcake said:That's my theory also, and for the same reasons.
Pete
Repete
I am baffled by this aura that surrounds “judging” people. The prevailing attitude is that “I am not good enough to judge anyone, that is God’s job” “You have no right to judge me” and so on. I have heard varying definition and explanations of where and when being judgmental is ok, and when it is not IE: Ok to judge in your mind but not publicly.
Websters says: To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
What exactly is wrong with that? If you look at the actions, lifestyle, attributes, speech of a person I believe you judge it whether you realize it or not. We all judge people, everyday, every time we meet someone or learn more about him or her. There are people I do not hang out with based on a judgment I made. I do not hang with crack users because I judge them to be dangerous, immoral, weak, psychologically damaged people who do not share the same values. I do not listen to the opinion of horrible gossips because I judge their input to be biased or embellished for the sake of sensationalism.
We judge many things all day long, both in out minds and publicly. Some people less publicly, some more, but is the act of vocalizing the opinion you draw, sufficient to make “judging” bad? To the person you are judging or people who are guilty of the same actions that caused you to form the judgment I suppose so, because they do not like to be seen in an unfavorable light. I maintain that simply because you are embarrassed about the judgment, vocalized or not, it still does not meet the criteria of something “bad.”
A judgment is simply nothing more than an opinion. To say someone does not have the right to judge you is paramount to saying they have no right to have an opinion. If you subscribe to the theory that judgment is ok as long as it is in your mind, not public, I maintain that you believe that “it is ok to have an opinion just don’t voice it.” Now this does not mean that every opinion or judgment we make is always correct. I have been wrong on numerous occasions. This is why our judgments or opinions are constantly updated as more data is gathered. There are people in all our lives we liked initially because we judged them to be good, like-minded people, then as we learned more we updated our judgment. Contrary to that there have been people we have judged to be “ not our type” for one reason or another only to revise our opinion or judgment and find out they in fact are good.
I think that judgment is not a bad thing provided you are adult enough to accept the judgment for what it is. I have had people judge me, well within their rights to do. I look at the source, judge whether or not I believe them to be sincere, intelligent enough to form a judgment, if their judgment has merit, and the context in which the judgment was offered. If after careful consideration of those factors I make a judgment to take their judgment to heart or discount it as the ranting of a goober with an agenda. If I discount their judgment it does not go away, it still exists in their mind but it does not make it “bad”.
Of course in today’s sensationalized society where classlessness is rampant and sensibility and decorum are lacking, there are judgments that are not judgments at all but are in fact biased attempts to damage a person publicly. They have no basis in actual beliefs or fact, but are constructed with the sole purpose of re-enforcing an already existing dislike. These pseudo-judgments with agendas are in fact bad things. Then of course there are also legitimate judgments made public that were developed in calm reason, yet proffered in public during the heat of argument. While “Oh yea, you are a nasty pig!” does not meet the demands of decent decorum and class, it does not make the judgment wrong or bad, it just makes the person offering that pearl insulting. Unfortunately, being a passionate battler myself, I admit I have this failing at times.
In the context of this thread “judging” seems to be related to the article about Amber Frey. The author of the piece does make judgments based on his beliefs. It just so happens that his beliefs are based on biblical principles. His public judgment is well within his rights to make publicly or privately. His judgment is based on his actual beliefs, which come from the Bible. They are more intended to illustrate a point and point out facts that are being over clouded by the temporary fame than to damage Amber Frey. I believe the Pastor’s intent was to put the situation in the proper context for his followers so they did not get wrapped up in the common trait of the media to “promote the poor victim.” His message was “Let us not loose the fact that Amber Frey has a long factual history of adultery and the consequences of adultery should not be expected to be pleasant, therefore poor Amber is not really to be pitied.” Although the tragedy in this case was horrible Amber was not the victim.
Now there were few references to this message from that pastor and 2A’s statements of his belief, as “driving people away from church”. While not a devout Christian and not particularly religious myself here is my take. Christianity is not a club, the by-laws are not “amendable” by a consensus of members. Like it or not the Bible was written with certain thoughts, do’s and don’ts, and rules. Devout Christians try very hard to follow them and they repent for stumbles. They believe in the word all of the time, not just when the pastor is looking. They strictly believe and interpret the Bible. If you do not like the “word” then it is not for you. That is the simple fact. Christians believe the Bible, Armageddon and eternal life are not matters to parse over and most do not sugar coat it. The Bible says that God does not expect perfection, but it does expect remorse for sin and repentance. If you feel ashamed because of continued sin without remorse or repentance don’t blame the book or the messenger, just accept that you are not living in accordance with their code, but you are living within your own. Do not discount or disparage the book or the messengers or their message because it does not fit your paradigm of your “religion” or “spirituality”. The Bible tells Christians to go out and find those who are lost. They do this because they love them as brothers and sister, not because they get frequent flyer miles for each lamb brought back into the fold.
Websters says: To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
What exactly is wrong with that? If you look at the actions, lifestyle, attributes, speech of a person I believe you judge it whether you realize it or not. We all judge people, everyday, every time we meet someone or learn more about him or her. There are people I do not hang out with based on a judgment I made. I do not hang with crack users because I judge them to be dangerous, immoral, weak, psychologically damaged people who do not share the same values. I do not listen to the opinion of horrible gossips because I judge their input to be biased or embellished for the sake of sensationalism.
We judge many things all day long, both in out minds and publicly. Some people less publicly, some more, but is the act of vocalizing the opinion you draw, sufficient to make “judging” bad? To the person you are judging or people who are guilty of the same actions that caused you to form the judgment I suppose so, because they do not like to be seen in an unfavorable light. I maintain that simply because you are embarrassed about the judgment, vocalized or not, it still does not meet the criteria of something “bad.”
A judgment is simply nothing more than an opinion. To say someone does not have the right to judge you is paramount to saying they have no right to have an opinion. If you subscribe to the theory that judgment is ok as long as it is in your mind, not public, I maintain that you believe that “it is ok to have an opinion just don’t voice it.” Now this does not mean that every opinion or judgment we make is always correct. I have been wrong on numerous occasions. This is why our judgments or opinions are constantly updated as more data is gathered. There are people in all our lives we liked initially because we judged them to be good, like-minded people, then as we learned more we updated our judgment. Contrary to that there have been people we have judged to be “ not our type” for one reason or another only to revise our opinion or judgment and find out they in fact are good.
I think that judgment is not a bad thing provided you are adult enough to accept the judgment for what it is. I have had people judge me, well within their rights to do. I look at the source, judge whether or not I believe them to be sincere, intelligent enough to form a judgment, if their judgment has merit, and the context in which the judgment was offered. If after careful consideration of those factors I make a judgment to take their judgment to heart or discount it as the ranting of a goober with an agenda. If I discount their judgment it does not go away, it still exists in their mind but it does not make it “bad”.
Of course in today’s sensationalized society where classlessness is rampant and sensibility and decorum are lacking, there are judgments that are not judgments at all but are in fact biased attempts to damage a person publicly. They have no basis in actual beliefs or fact, but are constructed with the sole purpose of re-enforcing an already existing dislike. These pseudo-judgments with agendas are in fact bad things. Then of course there are also legitimate judgments made public that were developed in calm reason, yet proffered in public during the heat of argument. While “Oh yea, you are a nasty pig!” does not meet the demands of decent decorum and class, it does not make the judgment wrong or bad, it just makes the person offering that pearl insulting. Unfortunately, being a passionate battler myself, I admit I have this failing at times.
In the context of this thread “judging” seems to be related to the article about Amber Frey. The author of the piece does make judgments based on his beliefs. It just so happens that his beliefs are based on biblical principles. His public judgment is well within his rights to make publicly or privately. His judgment is based on his actual beliefs, which come from the Bible. They are more intended to illustrate a point and point out facts that are being over clouded by the temporary fame than to damage Amber Frey. I believe the Pastor’s intent was to put the situation in the proper context for his followers so they did not get wrapped up in the common trait of the media to “promote the poor victim.” His message was “Let us not loose the fact that Amber Frey has a long factual history of adultery and the consequences of adultery should not be expected to be pleasant, therefore poor Amber is not really to be pitied.” Although the tragedy in this case was horrible Amber was not the victim.
Now there were few references to this message from that pastor and 2A’s statements of his belief, as “driving people away from church”. While not a devout Christian and not particularly religious myself here is my take. Christianity is not a club, the by-laws are not “amendable” by a consensus of members. Like it or not the Bible was written with certain thoughts, do’s and don’ts, and rules. Devout Christians try very hard to follow them and they repent for stumbles. They believe in the word all of the time, not just when the pastor is looking. They strictly believe and interpret the Bible. If you do not like the “word” then it is not for you. That is the simple fact. Christians believe the Bible, Armageddon and eternal life are not matters to parse over and most do not sugar coat it. The Bible says that God does not expect perfection, but it does expect remorse for sin and repentance. If you feel ashamed because of continued sin without remorse or repentance don’t blame the book or the messenger, just accept that you are not living in accordance with their code, but you are living within your own. Do not discount or disparage the book or the messengers or their message because it does not fit your paradigm of your “religion” or “spirituality”. The Bible tells Christians to go out and find those who are lost. They do this because they love them as brothers and sister, not because they get frequent flyer miles for each lamb brought back into the fold.
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Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Pete, it's one thing to judge a person's actions. It's quite another to judge a person's worthiness to exist, and that's exactly what some believers are doing. They imply that God hates the sinner, when it really sounds like they are the ones doing the hating. They act like they, not God, are in charge of who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. To me, that is outrageously arrogant.Pete said:
Plus, when a believer judges people's worthiness to exist, it implies that the believer is incapable of unconditional love.
Pete
Repete
I must have missed the part where the Pastor said she was not "worthy to exist". True believer feel that anyone can be "brought back" through repentance. I have never heard any Pastor or 2A for that matter say someone should be just stoned and sent to hell because they are not worthy or are unsalvagable. They do say God hates sin not the sinner. If that hurts the sinners feelings so be it, it is what they believe. I think you misinterpret what they say, they are pointing out that sinning wthout repentance is a E ticket to hell.Tonio said:
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Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
I wasn't talking specifically about the Pastor or 2A. I was talking of the type of believer who tells others to their faces that they're going to Hell. Or the Islamist fundamentalists who claim that the tsunami was God's punishment on the insufficiently faithful. Or Falwell and Robertson, who claimed that 9/11 was God's wrath on America for homosexuality and fundamentalism. Or Rosie O'Donnell, who tells people that cancer is punishment for lying. In these type of cases, God's love for the sinner is either not mentioned, or mentioned only as an afterthought. These types of believers present an image of God that, like themselves, is quick to anger and reluctant to forgive. When you tell someone they're going to hell, you imply that you (and not necessarily God) believe that person doesn't deserve to exist.Pete said:
I've always understood that the references to "judging" in the Bible to mean "do not condemn" or "do not look on with contempt". Even the most oft quoted Scripture - the speck and plank one - is followed by the exhortation to "first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye". Not to ignore the speck - just don't overlook the big one in your own.
I'm hardly sympathetic to Amber Frey, but it has nothing to do with the lack of alignment between what she claims religiously to her daily life. I am not sympathetic, because she's a total nitwit who doesn't learn from her past idiocy and basically got herself into it by her own lack of judgment.
While at one time, I might have been quick to point out Amber's sexual escapades flying in the face of her religiosity - I'm inclined to believe that sexual 'misconduct' is just one of the more sensational 'sins' that religious types focus on. I'm reminded of that silly scene in "Willy Wonka" where the little girl calls spitting "a dirty habit" with half her finger up her nose. There are sins more deadly and far more insidious than what most people see.
I'm also a little sympathetic to the concept of "driving people away from God". There is a Scripture that admonishes not to put out the Spirit's fire - others, to encourage, and still others to help those who are weak. Jesus condemned the Pharisees not only because they were hypocrites but because they shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces - they appeared to be righteous - BUT THEY STOOD IN THE WAY.
I myself once was part of a religious cult for many years. I know what it's like to chafe under the iron hand of a hypocritical but seemingly righteous religious leadership. Once the veil was lifted from many - the result often was, many chose to abandon God, because they'd suffered enough - they lost their faith. While they may have had some faith at one time, it was not encouraged - it was crushed. For these kind of men, Jesus says it would have been better for them had they never been born.
I think that's why the Bible says that those who teach will be judged more strictly. It's not just *what* is taught - it's the character of the one doing the teaching. It's easy to destroy the faith of those just coming to faith with hypocrisy.
While I at one time might have nodded in agreement in the original article - I shudder now should all the dark parts of my own soul be as exposed as Amber's public behavior is. I wouldn't pass muster either.
I'm hardly sympathetic to Amber Frey, but it has nothing to do with the lack of alignment between what she claims religiously to her daily life. I am not sympathetic, because she's a total nitwit who doesn't learn from her past idiocy and basically got herself into it by her own lack of judgment.
While at one time, I might have been quick to point out Amber's sexual escapades flying in the face of her religiosity - I'm inclined to believe that sexual 'misconduct' is just one of the more sensational 'sins' that religious types focus on. I'm reminded of that silly scene in "Willy Wonka" where the little girl calls spitting "a dirty habit" with half her finger up her nose. There are sins more deadly and far more insidious than what most people see.
I'm also a little sympathetic to the concept of "driving people away from God". There is a Scripture that admonishes not to put out the Spirit's fire - others, to encourage, and still others to help those who are weak. Jesus condemned the Pharisees not only because they were hypocrites but because they shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces - they appeared to be righteous - BUT THEY STOOD IN THE WAY.
I myself once was part of a religious cult for many years. I know what it's like to chafe under the iron hand of a hypocritical but seemingly righteous religious leadership. Once the veil was lifted from many - the result often was, many chose to abandon God, because they'd suffered enough - they lost their faith. While they may have had some faith at one time, it was not encouraged - it was crushed. For these kind of men, Jesus says it would have been better for them had they never been born.
I think that's why the Bible says that those who teach will be judged more strictly. It's not just *what* is taught - it's the character of the one doing the teaching. It's easy to destroy the faith of those just coming to faith with hypocrisy.
While I at one time might have nodded in agreement in the original article - I shudder now should all the dark parts of my own soul be as exposed as Amber's public behavior is. I wouldn't pass muster either.
Pete
Repete
In that post 2A said "I think". this makes his statement speculation and not fact. He was offering a possibility. no where did he say "Good, I am glad the heathens are dead, I wondered what took god so long, they have had it coming to them for a long time."
2A has said many times he is not God or Christ, merely a man. He does not make anything happen and he is not the PR person for God. He simply states scripture that he believes is the truth. the truth hurts sometimes.
2A has said many times he is not God or Christ, merely a man. He does not make anything happen and he is not the PR person for God. He simply states scripture that he believes is the truth. the truth hurts sometimes.
