America Gone Mad

Biscuit

Livin' Large
Originally posted by SmallTown
Yea, I hear.. She told me about that one time when you two rented that cabin in the mountains, and.. oh wait, this isn't a PM is it :biggrin:

Now now., You are getting confused agian. That was the time You and Ned Beatty, Burt Renolds went rafting in Northern Virginia. Must have been awful for you, bent over the log and all. But i do hear you have pretty lips though.

Squeal Louder Boy!:eek:
 

Jean Ochrzcin

New Member
I make this statement completely assured of total alienation from (with all due respect) what seems to be a pretty opinionated group (i.e. my opinion or no opinion). However I have no intentions of ever getting on this board again so..... let me go out on a limb, anger the hell out of everyone and state for the record I agree with Smalltown. I think this country needs to proceed with caution. We need allies and we are rapidly losiing them with all the war rhetoric coming from the White House.

I don't like George Bush. I think leaders of great nations should have a least a modicum of dignity. He comes across as a bully, again my opinion or no opinion. This country is right and no others matter. This country was founded on differences, it runs in part with the cooperation of other nations. As they need us, we need them. No man is an island.

He recently stated he will personally lead the coalition to oust Sadam if that's what it takes. I can just picture him in his cowboy boots and gunbelt six shooters blazing leading Dick Cheny and his cohorts. In reality, it's the men and women in uniform that will be on the front lines. Yeah, I know they signed up to defend this country and that's one of the risks they take. Pretty easy to state when it's not your kid or you spent your military time flying planes in Texas (or not as the case may be).

In conclusion, least you think otherwise, I love this country. I served this country for twenty years, but sometimes I think this country is wrong. Go Smalltown, keep them on their toes!!
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by Jean Ochrzcin
However I have no intentions of ever getting on this board again so
Why not?

The facts are that Saddam tried to invade another country. The US (and others) went over there and kicked him back out. The UN then put sanctions against Iraq in place. Saddam disobeyed those sanctions. The UN said, "Oh well" and ignored it repeatedly. At what point should the UN make the punishment stick?

Also, Iraq has strong ties to the terrorists that attacked us on 9-11. There is documentation that proves Saddam financed them in part. This was money that he could have spent to feed his starving citizens but he chose instead to use it for destruction. Shouldn't he at least be punished for that?
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Originally posted by Jean Ochrzcin
I make this statement completely assured of total alienation from (with all due respect) what seems to be a pretty opinionated group (i.e. my opinion or no opinion). However I have no intentions of ever getting on this board again so..... let me go out on a limb, anger the hell out of everyone and state for the record I agree with Smalltown. I think this country needs to proceed with caution. We need allies and we are rapidly losiing them with all the war rhetoric coming from the White House.
Running away, see ya’, don’t let the door hit ya’ where the Lord split ya’.

“rhetoric coming from the White House.”? Excuse me, but the Congress has stated that the President is authorized to use any and all means to bring Iraq into compliance with the UN Resolutions (ref: PL107-243). He is only executing the will of Congress to protect our nation.

“I think this country needs to proceed with caution.”? What do you think we are doing that isn’t cautious? Hell, Bush has even decided to get UN endorsement prior to actively engaging in combat.

Watch as the evidence against Iraq unfolds. To date, we have seen that they have warheads capable of delivering biological/chemical agents (violation of UN sanctions). They have just found documents concerning the enrichment process for creating nuclear weapons (violation of UN sanctions). More evidence will be coming out prior to a US lead coalition force attack.

I don't like George Bush. I think leaders of great nations should have a least a modicum of dignity. He comes across as a bully, again my opinion or no opinion. This country is right and no others matter. This country was founded on differences, it runs in part with the cooperation of other nations. As they need us, we need them. No man is an island.
“Dignity”? Well, I bet you really loved old Billy Boy didn’t you? There was some real dignity going on during that administration. Coming across as a bully? Don’t confuse this with character and strength. We need to be tough at times and this is one of them. Just because you don’t like him doesn’t mean he isn’t doing the right thing.

He recently stated he will personally lead the coalition to oust Sadam if that's what it takes. I can just picture him in his cowboy boots and gunbelt six shooters blazing leading Dick Cheny and his cohorts. In reality, it's the men and women in uniform that will be on the front lines. Yeah, I know they signed up to defend this country and that's one of the risks they take. Pretty easy to state when it's not your kid or you spent your military time flying planes in Texas (or not as the case may be).
Please explain how leading a coalition of world leaders equates to serving on the front lines? Other President’s have lead coalitions without being out there, why do his words create this vision for you?

In conclusion, least you think otherwise, I love this country. I served this country for twenty years, but sometimes I think this country is wrong. Go Smalltown, keep them on their toes!!
Yeah, well we love it too, served as long or longer, and aren’t about to sit with our heads stuck in the sand exposing our backsides to an attack here on our soil, as Hussein has threatened. At times we might be wrong but this sure as Hell isn’t one of them.
 

SmallTown

Football season!
Originally posted by Jean Ochrzcin
state for the record I agree with Smalltown.

One other person said that in the past.. All that has been found is a few hair fibers and a torn piece of clothing with his DNA on it...
 

MGKrebs

endangered species
I take the opposite view (as usual). I think it sometimes takes courage to resist the majority opinion, especially when one's leaders hold that position. Although I don't give much credit to celebrities opinions on politics, I thought what LeCarre wrote was eloquent and accurate.

I think a lot of what is going on regarding this debate is this:

The so-called "Powell Doctrine"- have a clear objective, go in with overwhelming force, and get out- which was used in Desert Storm, was to some extent a reaction to the VietNam war. Some seem to believe that this is a correct posture for any conflict, including the pending one. Some of us, however, believe that some conflicts do not lend themselves to this strategy. The world is changing, all battles are not about taking/reclaiming terrotory. For example, I think we are fighting a major battle with China right now, and we are winning. They are very rapidly becoming a capitalist culture. Other enemies are not so easily identified or located- terrorists, for example.

Bush is trying very hard to convince the world that we can and should use the Powell Doctrine in this conflict. I do not see this as that kind of battle. Saddam is a pain in the butt, but our objectives of control and containment can be better achieved through other means (some of which we are currently employing),than a nasty ground war which, in my view, will solve nothing and cause more problems than it attempts to correct.
 
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vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
I agree with Maynard. It's a sad day when a fiction writer knows more about US-foreign relations than our own President and Secretary of State. Why did we elect Bush anyway? Even faded celebrities like Barbra Streisand and Alec Baldwin are smarter than him and know more about what's going on!

Everyone knows that Powell is just a token anyway - he was only appointed so it would seem like Bush doesn't hate black people as much as he does. The minute we're lulled into a false sense of security, you watch ol' Dubya repeal the 14th Amendment and bring back slavery!

And don't get me started on Donald Rumsfeld! When Sean Penn knows more about what's going on in Iraq than our Secretary of Defense, it's time to throw ALL those bums out.
 
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