Ann Coulter Stumbles on Abortion

[Bruzilla]

How do you know the baby she's carrying is yours?

DNA testing!!! You women sure seem to know a heck of a lot about it when you're trying to get child support out of a guy. I guess your memories get fuzzy when it might work against you.

 

[Pete]

Chasey, I think it's great they you are making it on your own, but I have to wonder if you aren't doing a dis-service to your daughter by not enforcing the support due her... if you are doing fine without it... then that means that is a pretty good chuck you could be tucking away for her future. I'd re-think things if I were you...

But I am guilty too. My ex WIFE owes me about $5K and I do not push it other than reminding her 2 or 3 times a year what it is and making sure she has my address. Point is loserdom knows no gender..

 

[Pete]

You are totally right Pete, which I think suspending a person's license is a bunch of crap in an attempt to enforce support, but that is besides the point, it is done.

I say that because many of the people I deal with everyday do work but don't make enough to pay everything they need to pay, so they will take that chance and drive back and forth to work. Then they end up locked up for driving while suspended or driving while revoked, and what good does that do anyone? Something is better than nothing. They cannot pay when they are in jail.

But complaining about child support when you've done nothing to collect is the same as complaining about the president of the U.S. when you didn't vote. IMO Sure it is a hassle, but you have to start somewhere.

True, but if they made any "ATTEMPT" at paying their license would not be suspended. Most shirk it at all costs and that is why this happens.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

Chasey, I think it's great they you are making it on your own, but I have to wonder if you aren't doing a dis-service to your daughter by not enforcing the support due her... if you are doing fine without it... then that means that is a pretty good chuck you could be tucking away for her future. I'd re-think things if I were you...

What if he weren't alive and able to pay?

 

[Bruzilla]

You're skewing my point. I didn't give up one child to save another. I gave up one child to save myself plus my child. It's a 2 for 1 deal if you're going to use it that way.

So, what would you say to someone who has a late-term fetus aborted so that's its heart could be extracted to save the life of a son who's heart was failing? I would say hell no.

I'm not skewing any points, just observing facts. I think that emotional issues like this are best discussed from a factual point of view. I'm not saying that the decision to abort your fetus was wrong, in fact I agree with what you did. But your decision is what it is... you made a selfish (meaning looking out for one's best interest) decision and you gave up one life to protect two others. So, if a fetus is developed and aborted to save two lives, should that make it more acceptable? How about five lives or a thousand? How does one determine the metrics of that?

I think that this all makes for a very interesting discussion.

 

[pixiegirl]

You are correct, and the authorities cannot go after the criminals unless you report the crime. Make a form letter, change the date and mail it to the Support Enforcement agency every week. Write letters to the Governor, Department head, Attorney General and I guarentee you will get satisfaction sooner than if you go one time and complain then stop.

But the point is. The way the system is set up (at least the way it's suppose to work) is as follows... My court ordered child support is suppose to go through the Child Support Enforcement Office (CSEO) and be paid via wage lien. He pays them, they pay me. If he changes jobs he is court ordered to report this within 10 days. If he goes into arrears 90 days then the CSEO is suppose to contact the district attorney and bring up charges against him. It sounde great for the parent who is suppose to be getting the child support. But unfortunately it doesn't work like it's suppose to.

I understand your point and do agree. But it should work like it's suppose to so that the single parent who is already working full time and taking care of their child/children should not have to jump through hoops and go that extra mile just to ensure a court order is carried out.

 

[vraiblonde]

IF you push for it

But that's the problem - it's exhausting and time-consuming to get what's rightfully yours (or at least, your child's). You have to ride Social Service's ass, rides the court's ass, ride your ex's ass...I have a friend down there that spent YEARS trying to get support out of her daughter's father before finally giving up. She wrote letters, she took time off work to go to court, she spent countless hours on the phone - only to find that there really was no enforcement system in place. Can't garnish someone's wages if they either don't have a job or keep changing jobs. She'd get a check for one month, then nothing, and have to start the whole process over again.

It's maddening.

And what happens if the woman has the child, with the understanding that the guy will take it and raise it, then he reneges on the deal?

Anyway, a smart woman wouldn't even tell the guy. She'd just go get the abortion and be done with it. Or, if she told him and he insisted that she give birth so he can raise the child, just get the abortion anyway and say, "Oopsie - false alarm." Women are sneaky like that.

 

[ylexot]

So, if a fetus is developed and aborted to save two lives, should that make it more acceptable? How about five lives or a thousand? How does one determine the metrics of that?

You might have a point if the aborted fetus had a guaranteed, or at least highly probable, chance of saving another or multiple lives. However, there is no guarantee or high probability at this time. On the other hand, a viable pregnancy does have that high probability.

 

[Ken King]

If you have a court order for child support and a judgement against the person for back due payments can't you notify the IRS by sending them a copy and they will redirect any refund due the culprit is expecting to you?

 

[vraiblonde]

If you have a court order for child support and a judgement against the person for back due payments can't you notify the IRS by sending them a copy and they will redirect any refund due the culprit is expecting to you?

NOW you're talking about a bureaucratic nightmare.

That's why women like Chasey and Pixie (and guys like Pete) don't bother with it. In the time it takes you to get a child support enforcement, you could work a second job, get a college degree, watch your children grow up and graduate from high school...

 

[Kizzy]

True, but if they made any "ATTEMPT" at paying their license would not be suspended. Most shirk it at all costs and that is why this happens.

I wish that were true, some judges have suspended merely for being in the arrears or because the payment isn't enough. I know they did it to themselves, but it still makes me mad.


Ken,

I believe that is correct. I have had state and federal refunds held in the past on some of my tax clients for back support.

Pix,

You can thank your governor for cutting back on employees for that delay. They have always been understaffed and the job of "Child Support Enforcer" has an extremely high turn over rate, low pay and they require a 2-year A.A. degree in some type of human services field. That job would drive the most sane person insane in a matter of no time. It is a fricken horrible job from what I have seen. These people get yelled at, cussed at constantly all day long by people in your exact same situation. Nobody ever calls and says “hey thanks” and constant negativity in that type of job with no appreciation burns them out really fast.

 

[pixiegirl]

Pix,

You can thank your governor for cutting back on employees for that delay. They have always been understaffed and the job of "Child Support Enforcer" has an extremely high turn over rate, low pay and they require a 2-year A.A. degree in some type of human services field. That job would drive the most sane person insane in a matter of no time. It is a fricken horrible job from what I have seen. These people get yelled at, cussed at constantly all day long by people in your exact same situation. Nobody ever calls and says “hey thanks” and constant negativity in that type of job with no appreciation burns them out really fast.

I wasn't blaming anyone for it. I was just explaining that it doesn't work like it's suppose to. And like Vrai said, it's more trouble then it's worth for me. His arrears are accumulating. It's no one's fault but my own for having a baby with a dirt bag so I deal with it. I am however after his latest and greatest smarta$$ comment about his child support going to hire an attorney and have him taken back to court. He'll end up having to pay the attorney fees anyway.

 

[Kizzy]

Well, when it comes to state offered services, I get my panties in a wand.

I just attended additional training, which was the reason for the book thread earlier today, because we will now have to do several evaluations (we didn’t have to do before) due to the limiting number of services and the services that have been cut the past several years. It scares me to think we have deadbeats dodging the system, the length it takes to get help and the long process for services that once didn’t take that long, not just for child support, but for other services as well, such as health care, drug treatment, mental evaluations, things like that.

Just sucks.

 

[Bruzilla]

You might have a point if the aborted fetus had a guaranteed, or at least highly probable, chance of saving another or multiple lives. However, there is no guarantee or high probability at this time. On the other hand, a viable pregnancy does have that high probability.

But there is a high probability today. Organs can be harvested from near-term fetuses to implant into children who have already been born. That means that a near-term fetus could be aborted and have it's heart implanted into a 1-yr old infant with a bum ticker. You would be sacrificing one life for another, which before reading Coulter's article I would have said was wrong, but when you factor in that it is perfectly acceptable to abort a fetus to save a mother's life, the moral lines get blurred.

 

[pixiegirl]

But there is a high probability today. Organs can be harvested from near-term fetuses to implant into children who have already been born. That means that a near-term fetus could be aborted and have it's heart implanted into a 1-yr old infant with a bum ticker. You would be sacrificing one life for another, which before reading Coulter's article I would have said was wrong, but when you factor in that it is perfectly acceptable to abort a fetus to save a mother's life, the moral lines get blurred.

For the most part fetus' aren't aborted in late pregnancy to save a mother. That's a rare occurance. Usually the baby is delivered. I think a fetus is viable outside the womb at 24 weeks. A pregnancy is 40 weeks. Big difference.

There is no way a fetal heart could be implanted into a 1 year old. Do you have kids? They grow a ton in the first year.

 

[Bruzilla]

Anyway, a smart woman wouldn't even tell the guy. She'd just go get the abortion and be done with it. Or, if she told him and he insisted that she give birth so he can raise the child, just get the abortion anyway and say, "Oopsie - false alarm." Women are sneaky like that.

Ring... ring... ring...

"Hello Pot. This is kettle. Guess what? You're black!"

Lordy, I just love hearing someone who can attack, berate, and belittle someone else's bad behavior while condoning, endorsing, and supporting the same behavior by someone else, and do it all in one breath... er... post. Are you sure you weren't really born a Kennedy?

 

[Bruzilla]

For the most part fetus' aren't aborted in late pregnancy to save a mother. That's a rare occurance. Usually the baby is delivered. I think a fetus is viable outside the womb at 24 weeks. A pregnancy is 40 weeks. Big difference.

There is no way a fetal heart could be implanted into a 1 year old. Do you have kids? They grow a ton in the first year.

We're once again into that grey area. Is there a difference between aborting a fetus in the first trimester to get stem cells, and aborting them at 38 weeks to harvest a heart IF the driving factor is saving someone else's life?

As for your the second comment, I'm pretty sure I've heard of operations of this type being successfully done, and in fact, are preferred as the infant's immune system isn't mature enough to cause rejection problems.

 

[pixiegirl]

We're once again into that grey area. Is there a difference between aborting a fetus in the first trimester to get stem cells, and aborting them at 38 weeks to harvest a heart IF the driving factor is saving someone else's life?

The difference between viable life and non viable life. A first trimest fetus can not survive outside the womb. My youngest son was "delivered" at 38 weeks. Matter of fact even though I can't remember at what week it changes (sometime in the first trimester) the fetus is still called/considered an embryo. And there is a difference between embryo and fetus.

As for the second part I'd have to see something myself because I have no knowledge to base an opinion on.

 

[Pete]

If you have a court order for child support and a judgement against the person for back due payments can't you notify the IRS by sending them a copy and they will redirect any refund due the culprit is expecting to you?

If you have a judgement and they are in arrears the state is supposed to notify the IRS and the person's tax returns are then given to the person who is supposed to get the money.

I suppose my experience with the state of Maine was better. I got a signed garnishment order stapled to the divorce/child support judgment. The instructions simply said "Sign and mail to state dept of CSE at the first missed payment." I did it, and they sent me a release stating if I signed, the state of Maine then took over my case on my behalf. I was authorizing them to do whatever necessary on my behalf, even going to court and capturing assets for the child support. I signed it, I had a check in 3 weeks. They dogged her ass constantly, she hopped jobs, they were on her. I got her tax return, both state and federal and it worked exactly as advertised. I was not on welfare either. She had to deal with the state and not me. Took the burden of being unpleasant off me totally.

I know some states like Michigan make the respondent pay the support directly to the state and they payed you. That was they had control of the case day one form the divorce.

I would have to say that it sounds as though MD has weak, pizz poor laws regarding CS. Might be time to write letters and lobby state legislators. They do listen and if they don't ditch them.

 

[vraiblonde]

Lordy, I just love hearing someone who can attack, berate, and belittle someone else's bad behavior while condoning, endorsing, and supporting the same behavior by someone else, and do it all in one breath... er... post.

Where did I endorse or condone it? I just said that's what a smart woman would do to avoid having to deal with a Bebe Daddy.

You hate women, don't you?