Another Fundy wacko bites the dust

[Chuckt]

No.

A good few of those verses are quite a stretch, but even so I could come up with just as many verses that say something different regarding judgment; however, I won't bother because you seem very adamant and justified in your self-righteousness. So be it, but don't ever say that myself and others didn't REBUKE you for your PRIDE.



I already told you Catholics are justified by grace with scripture and CC quotes. To continue to say differently is to be intellectually dishonest at the least and deliberately deceitful at the worst. This is exactly why I dislike people like you. It's one thing to be truly ignorant of what Catholicism teaches and have the wrong impression; however, once educated you should cease and desist with the misinformation, but you choose not to do that and continue to propagate a lie.

Revisionist history. I've debated Catholics before and what you are saying is that all of them that came before you that debated me before were confused except you.

 

[Chuckt]

But I'm a Druid....

Should Christians judge the teachings of their leaders?

Not only is judging permissible, it is our responsibility. Nobody’s teachings are above sound judgment—especially those of influential leaders! Biblically, authority and accountability go hand in hand (cf. Luke 12:48). The greater the responsibility one holds, the greater the accountability (cf. James 3:1).

http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/should-christians-judge-the-teachings-of-their-leaders/

 

[b23hqb]

No.

A good few of those verses are quite a stretch, but even so I could come up with just as many verses that say something different regarding judgment; however, I won't bother because you seem very adamant and justified in your self-righteousness. So be it, but don't ever say that myself and others didn't REBUKE you for your PRIDE.

I already told you Catholics are justified by grace with scripture and CC quotes. To continue to say differently is to be intellectually dishonest at the least and deliberately deceitful at the worst. This is exactly why I dislike people like you. It's one thing to be truly ignorant of what Catholicism teaches and have the wrong impression; however, once educated you should cease and desist with the misinformation, but you choose not to do that and continue to propagate a lie.

No Chuckt is not being intellectually dishonest or deceitful. He is simply being biblical, and your catholic teachings themselves make it painfully clear that a Catholic's salvation cannot be attained without faith, baptism, and good works combined. It is not an instantaneous process of being saved, as the Bible teaches, but a long, Catholic process.

Your cc's are very clear about that. Just agree to disagree. I have.

 

[Chuckt]

No Chuckt is not being intellectually dishonest or deceitful. He is simply being biblical, and your catholic teachings themselves make it painfully clear that a Catholic's salvation cannot be attained without faith, baptism, and good works combined. It is not an instantaneous process of being saved, as the Bible teaches, but a long, Catholic process.

Your cc's are very clear about that. Just agree to disagree. I have.

Catholics have taught grace infused with works. And if you can lose your salvation is Catholicism then you have to work for it (to maintain it).

https://carm.org/catholic-salvation-maintain

 

[onel0126]

Catholics have taught grace infused with works. And if you can lose your salvation is Catholicism then you have to work for it (to maintain it). https://carm.org/catholic-salvation-maintain

You do realize that MANY Protestants believe you can lose your salvation and that OSAS is a man made concept, right? the ones that do like b23 and probably you will call it "backsliding." You will also defend it by saying that if a Protestant turns his back on God forever then he was never really saved to begin with. Kinda like George Costanza's shower--it didn't take.

 

[b23hqb]

You do realize that MANY Protestants believe you can lose your salvation and that OSAS is a man made concept, right? the ones that don't like b23 and probably you will call it "backsliding." You will also defend it by saying that if a Protestant turns his back on God forever then he was never really saved to begin with.

Kinda like George Costanza's shower--it didn't take.

Check out some scriptures on eternal salvation again, onel. We've been over this before

John 5:24, John 6:37, 40, John 10:27-30, 17:2-3, 1 John 2:25, 5:11-13, Romans 6:23, Romans 11:29, 2 Cor 1:22, Hebrews 10:14 - etc.

If you are saved and God knows it, you are saved eternally - forever - regardless on where you end up here on earth. If you end up in front of the Great White Throne, you'll know you did not receive the gift of salvation because God never knew you. One who has been playing the game of a Christian will be realizing their lie.

If you're saved and screw up here on earth, you have to pay the earthly price of society, via pain, destitution, prison, execution, whatever. Jesus has already paid the admission to heaven.

Once saved, always. Never saved, never saved.

I have confidence in the Word of God, not in the word of man.

 

[Gilligan]

Should Christians judge the teachings of their leaders?

What does that have to do with your misguided view that you, or anyone like you, are in a position to pass judgement on total strangers...or even close family and friends?

 

[onel0126]

I have confidence in the Word of God, not in the word of man.

So your confidence in the word of God doesn't apply to these then apparently... John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Radiant1]

Revisionist history. I've debated Catholics before and what you are saying is that all of them that came before you that debated me before were confused except you.

We weren't discussing history, we did that previously in which you proved yourself woefully ignorant of it, so no revision necessary. I'm fairly certain that any Catholic apologist you may have come across did not say that Catholics are saved by works. You'll understand if I *don't* take your word for it.

No Chuckt is not being intellectually dishonest or deceitful. He is simply being biblical, and your catholic teachings themselves make it painfully clear that a Catholic's salvation cannot be attained without faith, baptism, and good works combined. It is not an instantaneous process of being saved, as the Bible teaches, but a long, Catholic process.

Your cc's are very clear about that. Just agree to disagree. I have.

If he were honest he would acknowledge the teachings in which I showed him via scripture and CC. Apparently, the CC isn't clear enough because you're confused.

What's your definition of "biblical", your interpretation thereof? Here, read this: http://forums.somd.com/threads/300478-The-Protestant-Conundrum?p=5535841#post5535841

Catholics have taught grace infused with works. And if you can lose your salvation is Catholicism then you have to work for it (to maintain it).

https://carm.org/catholic-salvation-maintain

There is the infused vs imputed righteousness argument, justification vs salvation. We can go round and round using scripture itself on that (it's been done here before), but let me ask you something. Do you consider repentance a "work"? If so, then why, as you claim in this thread, did you repent? Surely, if that makes Catholics guilty of salvation by works, then you're right there with us and guilty of what you accuse us of.

If you are saved and God knows it, you are saved eternally - forever - regardless on where you end up here on earth. If you end up in front of the Great White Throne, you'll know you did not receive the gift of salvation because God never knew you. One who has been playing the game of a Christian will be realizing their lie.

If you're saved and screw up here on earth, you have to pay the earthly price of society, via pain, destitution, prison, execution, whatever. Jesus has already paid the admission to heaven.

Once saved, always. Never saved, never saved.

In other words, you don't know if you're saved, Sally's saved, Chuckie's saved, or I'm saved until the end, which is all fine and good with me. Personally, I think you and Chuckie are playing at Christian. I guess you'll find out eventually whether I'm right or not, eh?

I have confidence in the Word of God, not in the word of man.

No, you have confidence in your own personal interpretations of the Word of God. If you haven't already read it, here; and if you have, read it again: http://forums.somd.com/threads/300478-The-Protestant-Conundrum?p=5535841#post5535841

 

[Chuckt]

You do realize that MANY Protestants believe you can lose your salvation and that OSAS is a man made concept, right? the ones that do like b23 and probably you will call it "backsliding." You will also defend it by saying that if a Protestant turns his back on God forever then he was never really saved to begin with. Kinda like George Costanza's shower--it didn't take.

Salvation is a gift and a backslider may just possess the gift of eternal life for having faith and believing.

I don't believe that a person who is saved can lose their salvation.

John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, ***hath*** everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The verse doesn't say "might have" or "could have" but "hath" everlasting life.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I know of a website that will let me argue in depth with quoted material. What I'm saying to you is, I've debated this before and I have pages and pages of material that I used to prove it.

 

[Chuckt]

What does that have to do with your misguided view that you, or anyone like you, are in a position to pass judgement on total strangers...or even close family and friends?

What is a disciple? Can we qualify? I think we can qualify.

The right was given to disciples:

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

So if you don't believe the gospel that Paul preached then I have a right to say your sins are retained but if you confess with your mouth then I could say, "your sins are remitted" by the authority of the word of God.

 

[Chuckt]

So your confidence in the word of God doesn't apply to these then apparently... John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. In Mark 16:16 Jesus says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Do you know what the word "but" means? It is an excuse or it means "forget everything I said before" because the verse says, "he that believeth not shall be damned" and it doesn't say, "he that is baptized not shall be damned".
John 3:16 already specifies that "whomsoever believeth on him" should not perish.

The art of Bible interpretation is to interpret the hard to understand verses (implicit) from the clear and easy to understand verses first like John 3:16, John 5:24, etc.

 

[Chuckt]

We weren't discussing history, we did that previously in which you proved yourself woefully ignorant of it, so no revision necessary. I'm fairly certain that any Catholic apologist you may have come across did not say that Catholics are saved by works. You'll understand if I *don't* take your word for it.



If he were honest he would acknowledge the teachings in which I showed him via scripture and CC. Apparently, the CC isn't clear enough because you're confused.

What's your definition of "biblical", your interpretation thereof? Here, read this: http://forums.somd.com/threads/300478-The-Protestant-Conundrum?p=5535841#post5535841



There is the infused vs imputed righteousness argument, justification vs salvation. We can go round and round using scripture itself on that (it's been done here before), but let me ask you something. Do you consider repentance a "work"? If so, then why, as you claim in this thread, did you repent? Surely, if that makes Catholics guilty of salvation by works, then you're right there with us and guilty of what you accuse us of.



In other words, you don't know if you're saved, Sally's saved, Chuckie's saved, or I'm saved until the end, which is all fine and good with me. Personally, I think you and Chuckie are playing at Christian. I guess you'll find out eventually whether I'm right or not, eh?



No, you have confidence in your own personal interpretations of the Word of God. If you haven't already read it, here; and if you have, read it again: http://forums.somd.com/threads/300478-The-Protestant-Conundrum?p=5535841#post5535841

Repentance is a step and not a work in the sense that I understand it but people can misuse a verse and use repentance as a work and there are works of repentance.
Other Catholics have specifically argued James 2:14, 17 with me to the point where I wrote twenty pages on it and I am looking foward to putting it into an Ebook on Amazon but I need more pages to publish a book but publishing takes time.

 

[Radiant1]

Repentance is a step and not a work in the sense that I understand it

I'm not sure how you differentiate the two, but that's ok. That's all I needed to hear you say.

 

[Gilligan]

What is a disciple? Can we qualify? I think we can qualify.

The right was given to disciples:

.

Oh..so you're a "disciple". Is there an entrance exam? Does that pay well?

 

[Gilligan]

The art of.

And you're an artist too?? A man of so many talents...

 

[Chuckt]

Oh..so you're a "disciple". Is there an entrance exam? Does that pay well?

What you may do today may be your only retirement plan in heaven until you are given a new opportunity to serve the Lord so that is all the reward you are going to get. What you do here for God is your 401K plan in heaven.

On earth, it only costs me to be a disciple.

 

[Gilligan]

What you may do today may be your only retirement plan in heaven until you are given a new opportunity to serve the Lord so that is all the reward you are going to get. What you do here for God is your 401K plan in heaven.

On earth, it only costs me to be a disciple.

I've got this really nice hand basket already picked out.

 

[PsyOps]

Salvation is a gift and a backslider may just possess the gift of eternal life for having faith and believing.

I don't believe that a person who is saved can lose their salvation.

John 5:24 ¶ Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, ***hath*** everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The verse doesn't say "might have" or "could have" but "hath" everlasting life.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

I know of a website that will let me argue in depth with quoted material. What I'm saying to you is, I've debated this before and I have pages and pages of material that I used to prove it.

In this context, what does the word "believe" mean to you?

 

[b23hqb]

In this context, what does the word "believe" mean to you?

I know you're not asking me that, but exactly what are you aiming at? In context of what specifically?