Anyone interested in CRE talk?

[exnodak]

And this is why I keep saying we should not be an HOA... we should be a POA...

You present an interesting concept here....

There is no difference between a POA and an HOA unless you change the definition of "Properties" to be restricted only to the property owned by the POACRE corporation and NOT the privately owned properties in the subdivision.

Also, you would have to recognize that there is only one enforceable covenant being the roads fees. POACRE's position of Declarant was obtained by fraud and its enforcement of contracts is done by forgery based on that fraud, BUT the road fees do run with the land and would be enforceable. The M&O fees were stripped from CRC, Inc. BEFORE the buyout and were declared unenforceable by COSA which is one reason for their bankruptcy. It was only be a smoke and mirrors act of forgery that they were made enforceable by the original POACRE BOD.

 

[hotcoffee]

There is no difference between a POA and an HOA unless you change the definition of "Properties" to be restricted only to the property owned by the POACRE corporation and NOT the privately owned properties in the subdivision.

QUOTE]

All the second paragraph aside.... your description of a POA is exactly what I'm after. I bought my land that my house sits on and my private lot.... and I don't think it should be part of an HOA.... but it is.... IMHO that's why HOA's are so costly....

A POA however could be profitable for everyone....

 

[exnodak]

There is no difference between a POA and an HOA unless you change the definition of "Properties" to be restricted only to the property owned by the POACRE corporation and NOT the privately owned properties in the subdivision.

QUOTE]

All the second paragraph aside.... your description of a POA is exactly what I'm after. I bought my land that my house sits on and my private lot.... and I don't think it should be part of an HOA.... but it is.... IMHO that's why HOA's are so costly....

A POA however could be profitable for everyone....

If you are not willing to acknowledge the forgery and fraud there is no compelling reason for anyone to listen to you about making any change.

 

[exnodak]

One more thing: CRE is NOT a common ownership community. A common ownership community would be what you are describing you want. What we have is a corporately owned system of amenities that subjects the property owners as subservient tenements in order to extract covenant and other fees. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

The corporation is a stand alone corporate person with no defined owners.

The fact that the "members" as property owners control the corporation is a simple fact of the bylaws which can be changed by any group of 101 votes. Anyone could be appointed to control and collect by a simple bylaw change.

That means that only 2/100ths of the voting population could alter the control of the entire organization. That is the threat everyone should be afraid of with this apathetic population.

 

[hotcoffee]

One more thing: CRE is NOT a common ownership community. A common ownership community would be what you are describing you want. What we have is a corporately owned system of amenities that subjects the property owners as subservient tenements in order to extract covenant and other fees. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

The corporation is a stand alone corporate person with no defined owners.

The fact that the "members" as property owners control the corporation is a simple fact of the bylaws which can be changed by any group of 101 votes. Anyone could be appointed to control and collect by a simple bylaw change.

That means that only 2/100ths of the voting population could alter the control of the entire organization. That is the threat everyone should be afraid of with this apathetic population.

Ok... now you're just out in left field.... I have no idea what you are talking about there....

apathetic????

I don't know about you.... but my neighbors all care about the community and the people in it.... they are active in church, youth groups, volunteer at the firehouse.... they are active in PTA, support a lot of the local youth sports groups... and on and on and on....

Apathetic??? I don't think that is apathetic....

IMHO the problem isn't apathy.... it's WIIFM.....

 

[RPMDAD]

HC, just curious if the majority of the people that live in CRE are not apathetic, why is the voter turn out always so low in voting there. I think the majority are all apathetic and don't get up off their butts to vote for anything but are the first to complain. JMHO.

 

[hotcoffee]

HC, just curious if the majority of the people that live in CRE are not apathetic, why is the voter turn out always so low in voting there. I think the majority are all apathetic and don't get up off their butts to vote for anything but are the first to complain. JMHO.

Why bother..... it's all about WIIFM....

There's no marketing. There are always complaints about lack of communication.

I've talked to people who don't even know when the ballots comes out.

 

[exnodak]

Why bother..... it's all about WIIFM....

There's no marketing. There are always complaints about lack of communication.

I've talked to people who don't even know when the ballots comes out.

First, WIIFM and apathy are not mutually exclusive. We have both and the both damage the community.

Second, the communication issues stem from incompetence by the managers and the simple frustration the homeowner has that nothing can be done except ignore the problem.

I have spent 10 years trying to point out what is written in plain english in the legal documents and agreements of sale and gotten nowhere because each and every POACRE BOD has fought the truth. Unless we get a BOD that is willing to make some admissions, we will have what we have and that is all that we will have.

 

[hotcoffee]

First, WIIFM and apathy are not mutually exclusive. We have both and the both damage the community.

Second, the communication issues stem from incompetence by the managers and the simple frustration the homeowner has that nothing can be done except ignore the problem.

I have spent 10 years trying to point out what is written in plain english in the legal documents and agreements of sale and gotten nowhere because each and every POACRE BOD has fought the truth. Unless we get a BOD that is willing to make some admissions, we will have what we have and that is all that we will have.

I don't think admissions is the key to anything. While it might make you feel better it doesn't solve anything.... and it might not be based on the truth. Could just be lip service....know what I mean?

IMHO.... we need to work on resolutions.... solutions to the problems....

We need to learn that we can't please everyone.... you can please some people some of the time and all the people some of the time.... but you can't please all the people all the time.... it's just not going to happen... we are a diverse community....

We need a Capital Projects Plan... published and updated regularly....

We need a Marketing plan.... published and updated regularly....

We need legislation to change from an HOA to a POA....

We've begun to turn the corner in that we are spending more on Maintenance than on Operations.... there is still room for improvement.

We can clammer about the past or we can look toward the future and set a course with vivid measurable markers....

We have some awesome volunteers working for us.... we have some great neighbors.... We have a great location and a wonderful community....

 

[exnodak]

I don't think admissions is the key to anything. While it might make you feel better it doesn't solve anything.... and it might not be based on the truth. Could just be lip service....know what I mean?

IMHO.... we need to work on resolutions.... solutions to the problems....

We need to learn that we can't please everyone.... you can please some people some of the time and all the people some of the time.... but you can't please all the people all the time.... it's just not going to happen... we are a diverse community....

We need a Capital Projects Plan... published and updated regularly....

We need a Marketing plan.... published and updated regularly....

We need legislation to change from an HOA to a POA....

We've begun to turn the corner in that we are spending more on Maintenance than on Operations.... there is still room for improvement.

We can clammer about the past or we can look toward the future and set a course with vivid measurable markers....

We have some awesome volunteers working for us.... we have some great neighbors.... We have a great location and a wonderful community....

So, instead of the truth, you would simply list your wants and claim you are moving forward. More of the same: doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

[hotcoffee]

So, instead of the truth, you would simply list your wants and claim you are moving forward. More of the same: doing the same thing and expecting different results.

So what are you doing to move the community forward? Oh wait... you came up with a way to blend the water so the arsenic contamination was not so bad.

That by the way... is genuinely a compliment....

 

[hotcoffee]

I've been thinking.... why not record the meetings and make the recordings available on POACRE.org, SOMD Online, and facebook....

 

[hotcoffee]

This is what I wrote.... I got to say the majority of it...

Please allow me to respond as a member in good standing of the Property Owners Association Chesapeake Ranch Estates concerning the request for a renewal of the Special Taxing District.

It is my understanding that the Special Taxing District is a method utilized by Chesapeake Ranch Estates, with the assistance of the Calvert County Government, to pave the primary and secondary roads in Chesapeake Ranch Estates. Further, it is my understand that the Special Taxing District is a method utilized to provide sorely needed Storm Water Management.

I appreciate the benefits of a Special Taxing District. This method of funding is not only a reliable source of income with oversight, but in some cases allows the members to take advantage of a tax deduction not available when paying our regular M&O and Road fees required by the governing documents. The existence of a Special Taxing District allows cost reimbursement in the event of natural catastrophic events through FEMA and MEMA funds.

Although we, the membership of POACRE, have been paying into this Special Taxing District fund for nearly 15 years:

1.The majority of the sixty-six [66] miles of roads are still unpaved.
2.The storm water management necessary to maintain the sixty-six [88] miles of road is still largely unaddressed, causing major problems.
3.This particular document leaves miles of road and storm water management still unscheduled.
4.Although the community is now nearing build out, the storm water management problem is adversely impacting the community, the Mill Creek Watershed, and the Chesapeake Bay.
5.The cost of road construction is directly impacted by the rising cost of asphalt and other oil based products.​

In addition, the inclusion of funding for road maintenance as well as a capital improvement project included in this particular document seems to move Chesapeake Ranch Estates away from a Special Taxing District and into a Special Services District not unlike the Special Services Districts utilized in St. Mary's County to maintain and upgrade older HOA communities with massive infrastructure.

In my opinion, therefore, the community would be better served if the Board of Commissioners would consider the following steps.

•Renew the Special Taxing District at the current [or lower] rate for the period of one or two years instead of the five years requested to allow a fresh approach to the massive infrastructure need.
•Task the Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee with researching a more effective method of funding this major infrastructure issue, to include among other methods, Bonding or a Special Services District.
•Task the Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee with meeting with the POACRE membership and reporting back to the Board of Commissioners.
•Task the POACRE Board with renewed education concerning the projected cost of the infrastructure needs and the fiscal tools available, and allow the membership to choose the path to their future.
•At the end of the agreed upon renewal, renew the Special Taxing District as written today, replace the renewal with a more efficient funding method, or dissolve the funding method leaving the infrastructure to erode and face forfeiture of eligibility for FEMA and MEMA funds.​

Thank you for reading this. I sincerely hope that the Commissioners and the membership of POACRE will be better for the effort.

 

[garyt27]

Me too!

That was my first and definitely my LAST experience with a HOA. It was a complete mess when I lived there (I moved out 3 years ago).

Prolly foreclosed on.

 

[ReadingTheNews]

This is what I wrote.... I got to say the majority of it...

Which part/s didn't you get to say?

 

[hotcoffee]

Which part/s didn't you get to say?

The last two suggestions.... But they have the letter.... so they'll read it...

Now it's up to the commissioners one more time...

I'd like to see them lower the tax to no more than $150.00.... or make it go down to $1.00 so we can keep our FEMA eligibility....

 

[OmyGawd]

The last two suggestions.... But they have the letter.... so they'll read it...

Now it's up to the commissioners one more time...

I'd like to see them lower the tax to no more than $150.00.... or make it go down to $1.00 so we can keep our FEMA eligibility....

And this is going to help the community how? Loss of fund will be disastrous, we all know that the county wants nothing to do with our roads. If this is lost how do you intend to make up the difference? The only way to actually change the fees is by membership vote and we've all seen how that goes. Short of a one time assessment changes require covenant changes and we all know how that will go since it takes finding all the owners and getting 50%+1 to agree. I hope you have a plan because all these people say end the STD but none have a way to replace the lost funding.
:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:

 

[hotcoffee]

And this is going to help the community how? Loss of fund will be disastrous, we all know that the county wants nothing to do with our roads. If this is lost how do you intend to make up the difference? The only way to actually change the fees is by membership vote and we've all seen how that goes. Short of a one time assessment changes require covenant changes and we all know how that will go since it takes finding all the owners and getting 50%+1 to agree. I hope you have a plan because all these people say end the STD but none have a way to replace the lost funding.
:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug:

I find that the majority of the people I talk to don't understand the Special Taxing District.

That was the point of my suggestions...[here they are again for your convenience]

• • Renew the Special Taxing District at the current [or lower] rate for the period of one or two years instead of the five years requested to allow a fresh approach to the massive infrastructure need.
• • Task the Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee with researching a more effective method of funding this major infrastructure issue, to include among other methods, Bonding or a Special Services District.
• • Task the Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee with meeting with the POACRE membership and reporting back to the Board of Commissioners.
• • Task the POACRE Board with renewed education concerning the projected cost of the infrastructure needs and the fiscal tools available, and allow the membership to choose the path to their future.
• • At the end of the agreed upon time period, renew the Special Taxing District as written today, replace the renewal with a more efficient funding method, or dissolve the funding method leaving the infrastructure to erode and face forfeiture of eligibility for FEMA and MEMA funds.

The Special Taxing District has been around for 15 years but the new members do not have the benefit of the pros and cons listed in the original discussions fifteen years ago. That's why I suggest the Commissioners task the Board with providing the information to the membership. [On a side note... I try to educate every time this issue comes up... but the rolling of the eyes stops me short.... I know it gets boring hearing me talk about past actions]

There are other funding methods available. The county has staff and a committee that could research those other funding methods. There may be a better way to accomplish the task that wasn't available or practical back when the Special Taxing District was formed 15 years ago.

If we continue the tax at the same or lower rate for a year or two, CRE retains the eligibility for FEMA reimbursements in the event of a catastrophy, and the engineering and paving of road projects can continue.

One way or another.... the membership should have all the information and then be allowed to make a decision based on facts.

 

[exnodak]

I find that the majority of the people I talk to don't understand the Special Taxing District.

That was the point of my suggestions...[here they are again for your convenience]

• • Renew the Special Taxing District at the current [or lower] rate for the period of one or two years instead of the five years requested to allow a fresh approach to the massive infrastructure need.
• • Task the Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee with researching a more effective method of funding this major infrastructure issue, to include among other methods, Bonding or a Special Services District.
• • Task the Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee with meeting with the POACRE membership and reporting back to the Board of Commissioners.
• • Task the POACRE Board with renewed education concerning the projected cost of the infrastructure needs and the fiscal tools available, and allow the membership to choose the path to their future.
• • At the end of the agreed upon time period, renew the Special Taxing District as written today, replace the renewal with a more efficient funding method, or dissolve the funding method leaving the infrastructure to erode and face forfeiture of eligibility for FEMA and MEMA funds.

The Special Taxing District has been around for 15 years but the new members do not have the benefit of the pros and cons listed in the original discussions fifteen years ago. That's why I suggest the Commissioners task the Board with providing the information to the membership. [On a side note... I try to educate every time this issue comes up... but the rolling of the eyes stops me short.... I know it gets boring hearing me talk about past actions]

There are other funding methods available. The county has staff and a committee that could research those other funding methods. There may be a better way to accomplish the task that wasn't available or practical back when the Special Taxing District was formed 15 years ago.

If we continue the tax at the same or lower rate for a year or two, CRE retains the eligibility for FEMA reimbursements in the event of a catastrophy, and the engineering and paving of road projects can continue.

One way or another.... the membership should have all the information and then be allowed to make a decision based on facts.

The problem working with the Common ownership task force is that we are not a common ownership community. Ownership is vested in the corporate person "POACRE" as the deeds to the property show. Even though control of the "POACRE" is putatively in the domain of the "members in good standing", there is no provision for equity in the corporation meaning there are no ownership rights for individual members. Furthermore, losing control of the corporation requires a mere bylaw change. It would only take .02 (two one hundredths) of the community voting to give control of the corporation to ANY other entity.

In short POACRE owns the amenities and more than 500 individual lots, and NOBODY owns POACRE. There is no common ownership of infrastructure.

 

[hotcoffee]

The problem working with the Common ownership task force is that we are not a common ownership community. Ownership is vested in the corporate person "POACRE" as the deeds to the property show. Even though control of the "POACRE" is putatively in the domain of the "members in good standing", there is no provision for equity in the corporation meaning there are no ownership rights for individual members. Furthermore, losing control of the corporation requires a mere bylaw change. It would only take .02 (two one hundredths) of the community voting to give control of the corporation to ANY other entity.

In short POACRE owns the amenities and more than 500 individual lots, and NOBODY owns POACRE. There is no common ownership of infrastructure.

The committee that is supposed to be available to advise the Commissioners on the infrastructure needs of communities like ours is called COIAC [Common Ownership Infrastructure Advisory Committee].... So it fits....

You may not approve of the name of the committee but it's there for them to use and a few of us have already done part of the research.... we just need to update our information some...