Are Roman Catholics Our Brothers in Christ?

[StoneThrower]

They can't be..

They read the same Bible as the Mormons do, and the Mormons don't even pray to the same Jesus..

SO there's no way the Catholics can be..

They're all heretics...

Hi Bob,
Thats not true the Mormons only have a small part of the King James Bible as they say Joe didn't have time to finish interpreting the rest. Its not the same! They also rely on other books in which the get their doctrine, The covenants,The book of Mormon and The pearl of great price.











except of course the people that believe the exact same thing you do...[/QUOTE]

 

[thatguy]

Wirelessly posted

Yes, that's what I "latched onto". If you haven't noticed, I usually don't jump into conversations until I see something erroneously posted about myself, Catholicism, or in this case a Catholic saint. I do so in order to correct misunderstandings. Besides, we've been over this baptism thing and all other doctrines numerous times before, and I'm not overly fond of repeatedly slinging crap like monkeys if you know what I mean; y'all are welcome to it. In addition, I think you guys going back and forth whether Catholics are your brothers/sisters in Christ or not does you a disservice in the eyes of any passive reader and reveals a great deal about your views, so by all means keep at it. You don't need me to debate you because ultimately you all are doing my work for me.

Now, go write your sermon and peace be with you, brother.

So you as a Roman Catholic you see no value in looking at the only possible thread remaining that may still allow you to still be referred to as a Christian? Other than getting offended, your not concerned why there is even a need to ask the question?

From your prior post you don't see to get that what you are apart of, is not the one true church and has very little in common from the apostolic catholic Church from which its wondered away from.

"But what does it mean now to say that the church is apostolic, since the apostles are long-gone? Edmund Clowney put it succinctly: “To compromise the authority of Scripture is to destroy the apostolic foundation of the church."

"A distorted church often coincides with a distorted gospel." Mark Dever


Of the marks (qualities of a church) how many do you still retain?

1. Biblical Theology (missing)
2. The center of Right Teaching the Gospel (miss, a different Gospel)
3. Right Administration of Ordinances (miss, by the way that includes church discipline)

Rather than take offense perhaps try to construct one, then the question has value. For those looking on, any church that claims to be the one true church avoid, cults do this, the church is comprised of believers sitting under all kinds of names. Its not the name that defines them, but if they have a right understanding of who Jesus Christ is, and a correct understanding of how to respond to His plan of salvation that determines if they are Christians or not.
There is a reason why Jesus said it is Finished and its referred to as the finished work of the cross. It doesn't require seven sacraments the price was paid!

According to your dogma anyway

 

[StoneThrower]

except for the bible part, that is. Their (the catholic) bible has 73 books, plus all the catachesims, etc., required for the faith.

The christian bible has 66 books, with no one else or any other readings required.

If a catholic professes faith in jesus, and salvation is through him only, as the bible teaches, and no one can ever change that saving faith, and there is no one that can intercede for themselves except jesus, they are christians.

If they remain in the catholic system of rituals, ceremonies, prayers, confessions, works, etc., i would have to question why they still participate.

Jesus is good enough. Or he is not.

amen!

 

[StoneThrower]

So, how in this world do you "Christians" reconcile the Jewish Torah and your Jesus was Jewish??
And if you disagree with the Catholics, how do you 'splain lil' Jesus? Wasn't it their beloved Mary that "virgin" birthed him?

And if I seem disrespectful, good. When the "Christians" can learn to respect and accept other religions and have adult conversations about them, so will I.

Where you are born at has little to do with anything, you say this as if we have a problem with the Jews other than feeling sorry for them, that the long await messiah of theirs was missed because of the hardness of their hearts and relying in a system they created to be right with God rather than his system. Sound familiar like the RCC?

Yes Mary was the mother of Jesus, but they exalt her to a point of worship (veneration) and a mediator between God and man, a role that scripture says belongs to Jesus alone. 1st Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"

Why is it good to be disrespectful? Epically when based on a lack of personal understanding.

When you say accept other religions, do you mean acknowledge them as valid and be cruel turning our back on them and allowing them to go to hell based on a false belief system in ignorance, or something different? The first doesn't seem very loving.

Or are you calling us judgmental, and enforcing your values on us, as you are accusing us of doing?

 

[StoneThrower]

It seems really odd that some of you want to be so exclusionary. Those of you who say Catholics, Mormons, and others who don't have the exact same beliefs as you are doing yourselves a great disservice.

Christianity is the largest religious group in the world. If you now say that Catholics are not Christians, that relegates Christianity to the fourth largest group, behind Islam, Hinduism, and Catholicism.

If we take that further and exclude the rest of the non-protestant denominations you disagree with, it puts Christianity behind folk religions and just ahead of Shintoism.

It appears that there are only two real options here:

1. The people you think got it right are really lousy at spreading the word and God has not helped your version of Christianity grow or

2. Christianity is actually a strong and growing faith in spite of those who want it to be exclusionary and statistically irrelevant.

I'll take it even further and say the protestant church is the biggest mission field in America as we have more false converts in our churches that have bought into a modern gospel, that is not saving at all and are just like our RCC friends believing they are saved when they are not.

I am not saying all RCC are not saved, there is a possibility that there are spiritual still borns (imature in the faith) or those that dont truly understand all that the church teaches. Those that do understand and if they read their bibles I don't see how they could possible remain in what they would see is a false religion based on paganism.

The majority of Protestant churches are anything but a church and are nothing more than a social club or a Sunday morning coffee clutch that entertains them or meets their needs for a religious check in the box.

 

[StoneThrower]

What-is-now-called the Catholic Church was, indeed, the only Christian denomination for centuries. Jesus established it and protected it, .

No that is not true, Jesus didn't establish anything that looks or smells like what the RCC is today. In fact that is what this whole thread is about the fact the Romanism has become something so different that there isn't anything Christian left in it at all, other than a reference to a jesus that is a very different Jesus that is God Himself. The paganism that calls its self the church of Rome is nothing more than that a pagan religion!

Historically you can see each step along the way as it went further from the truth. Including pagan holidays and aligning Christan holidays on the same day. Do you really see any value in why they did that?

 

[thatguy]

Wirelessly posted

What-is-now-called the Catholic Church was, indeed, the only Christian denomination for centuries. Jesus established it and protected it, .

No that is not true, Jesus didn't establish anything that looks or smells like what the RCC is today. In fact that is what this whole thread is about the fact the Romanism has become something so different that there isn't anything Christian left in it at all, other than a reference to a jesus that is a very different Jesus that is God Himself. The paganism that calls its self the church of Rome is nothing more than that a pagan religion!

Historically you can see each step along the way as it went further from the truth. Including pagan holidays and aligning Christan holidays on the same day. Do you really see any value in why they did that?

When do you celebrate Easter and Christmas?

 

[StoneThrower]

Ok then, let's take a look at the church militant. Please show me an historical timeline of Protestant theology from the time of Christ to the Reformation, please and thank you.

Thats an insane question as the Protestant church didn't officially start till Luther kicked it off. Sure there were others that smelled what the church was up to slightly before, but I say slightly, as it was only shortly before that people could actually read the word of God for themselves and see that the church and the King were using it incorrectly, to control them and steel from them and then they revolted.

Your forgetting that that church although it was vile, is centuries earlier and nothing like what the Roman Catholic church was when it started in the 10 century. Centuries of manipulation and corruption based on power and paganism produced the Roman and the Greek Orthodox church that split over a pope. (control for power issue)

The church has never been perfect and the American church history is no better by far. But you claim an unbroken an changed church that goes back to the first century and by the third although it was still the same church in 300 AD it was corrupt and very different that what Christ established. Add seven more centuries of man made ideas based on power greed and paganism and then you have what was the birth of the RCC. which has changed further since then.
My point in case you missed it, was in 700 hundred years after a corrupt church that, Maryology, infallibility, ETC was added and that it strayed from a Christian orgin.
Democratss and Rebuplican look nothing like wiggs and carpet baggers. the orgins are the same put the parties are vastly differnt. The RCC church looks nothing like the first century church which OBTW had no pope!

 

[thatguy]

Wirelessly posted

Ok then, let's take a look at the church militant. Please show me an historical timeline of Protestant theology from the time of Christ to the Reformation, please and thank you.

Thats an insane question as the Protestant church didn't officially start till Luther kicked it off. Sure there were others that smelled what the church was up to slightly before, but I say slightly, as it was only shortly before that people could actually read the word of God for themselves and see that the church and the King were using it incorrectly, to control them and steel from them and then they revolted.

Your forgetting that that church although it was vile, is centuries earlier and nothing like what the Roman Catholic church was when it started in the 10 century. Centuries of manipulation and corruption based on power and paganism produced the Roman and the Greek Orthodox church that split over a pope. (control for power issue)

The church has never been perfect and the American church history is no better by far. But you claim an unbroken an changed church that goes back to the first century and by the third although it was still the same church in 300 AD it was corrupt and very different that what Christ established. Add seven more centuries of man made ideas based on power greed and paganism and then you have what was the birth of the RCC. which has changed further since then.
My point in case you missed it, was in 700 hundred years after a corrupt church that, Maryology, infallibility, ETC was added and that it strayed from a Christian orgin.
Democratss and Rebuplican look nothing like wiggs and carpet baggers. the orgins are the same put the parties are vastly differnt. The RCC church looks nothing like the first century church which OBTW had no pope!

So for 1500 years your church didn't exist and now you want to tell everyone that his is the one and only church that Jesus established?

So when did you say your denomination celebrates Christmas and Easter?

 

[StoneThrower]

Wirelessly posted



When do you celebrate Easter and Christmas?

Well I don't celebrate Easter but rather Resurrection Sunday and as for Christmas the same time as everyone else, but not in the same manner. Your question wasn't how but when, and the answer is on the same Pagan days the church aligned it to, although there is a clear understanding that it is not when Jesus was born. You make a good point though that the church has never corrected that mistake either, maybe its time to.

 

[StoneThrower]

Ok then, let's take a look at the church militant. Please show me an historical timeline of Protestant theology from the time of Christ to the Reformation, please and thank you.

Hi Radiant,
Back at you what do you call a Roman Catholic that reads his Bible everyday and understands it?
......
.......
A pro testant

“When Gods people hear about God and what he requires, they will respond.”Mark Dever

 

[Radiant1]

So you as a Roman Catholic you see no value in looking at the only possible thread remaining that may still allow you to still be referred to as a Christian?

Please refer to my response to you in post #20. In essence, no, your opinion has no value to me.

No that is not true, Jesus didn't establish anything that looks or smells like what the RCC is today. In fact that is what this whole thread is about the fact the Romanism has become something so different that there isn't anything Christian left in it at all, other than a reference to a jesus that is a very different Jesus that is God Himself. The paganism that calls its self the church of Rome is nothing more than that a pagan religion!

Historically you can see each step along the way as it went further from the truth. Including pagan holidays and aligning Christan holidays on the same day. Do you really see any value in why they did that?

Please refer to Matthew 16:18 and posts #48-54.

Whether you think the Catholic Church apostacized in 300 AD, 700 AD, or 1000 AD you still have the conundrum of proving that Protestant theology existed from the beginning.

Let me spell it out for you.

1. Jesus established a church in Matthew 16:18 and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Now, whether you believe that to be the Catholic Church or a body of believers, i.e. church militant, doesn't matter in this case.
2. You think the Catholic Church apostacized.
3. Unless you can prove there was Protestant theology from the beginning, then you are calling Jesus a liar.

Thats an insane question as the Protestant church didn't officially start till Luther kicked it off.

Exactly. And it's an insane premise to think Catholics aren't Christians. See #3 above.



Now, you all just go forth and spew your vitriol regardless of reality for it has no bearing on my or anyone else's salvation.

 

[Radiant1]

Well I don't celebrate Easter but rather Resurrection Sunday and as for Christmas the same time as everyone else, but not in the same manner. Your question wasn't how but when, and the answer is on the same Pagan days the church aligned it to, although there is a clear understanding that it is not when Jesus was born. You make a good point though that the church has never corrected that mistake either, maybe its time to.

I think you should start this year and forgo Christmas on December 25th lest you be a hypocrite. I mean, you wouldn't want to do what those pagan, apostate Catholics do, would you?

 

[StoneThrower]

Please refer to my response to you in post #20. In essence, no, your opinion has no value to me.



Please refer to Matthew 16:18 and posts #48-54.

Whether you think the Catholic Church apostatized in 300 AD, 700 AD, or 1000 AD you still have the conundrum of proving that Protestant theology existed from the beginning.

Let me spell it out for you.

1. Jesus established a church in Matthew 16:18 and promised that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. Now, whether you believe that to be the Catholic Church or a body of believers, i.e. church militant, doesn't matter in this case.
2. You think the Catholic Church apostatized.
3. Unless you can prove there was Protestant theology from the beginning, then you are calling Jesus a liar.



Exactly. And it's an insane premise to think Catholics aren't Christians. See #3 above.



Now, you all just go forth and spew your vitriol regardless of reality for it has no bearing on my or anyone else's salvation.

Oh but it dose, if the church of Rome is preaching a Gospel that isn't salvific and it is, and that is an offense to God than anyone believing that instead of the true gospel will go to Hell!

I love Catholics but I hate the church that they attend that is giving them a false sense of security based on the traditions of men and self righteousness, trying to earn their way to heaven and then telling them that if they miss the boat or don't get that seventh sacrament that they get a second chance in the after life which is just as wrong as the garbage JPC pedals. Purgatory and his version of Universalism are the same!
Did you ever consider that!

Those seven sacraments are the same as the used menstrual cloths that are referred to in Isaiah 64:6 6 "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; all other religions say do, do do, and maybe you will get to heaven. Christianity says the work is already done and completed on the cross. You cant bribe God or earn your justification through dirty menstrual cloths only through being justified through the work of Christ.

Thats what all this is about Romes attack on the doctrine of justification and saying there is another way through works that you can be justified to a just and Holy God other than the means He provided and His plan of salvation.

 

[Radiant1]

Ok, so according to your own theology and dogma, Jesus is a liar and I'm going to hell. Got it.

You seem to have gotten yourself in a hissy fit. May peace be with you, brother.

 

[thatguy]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



When do you celebrate Easter and Christmas?

Well I don't celebrate Easter but rather Resurrection Sunday and as for Christmas the same time as everyone else, but not in the same manner. Your question wasn't how but when, and the answer is on the same Pagan days the church aligned it to, although there is a clear understanding that it is not when Jesus was born. You make a good point though that the church has never corrected that mistake either, maybe its time to.

Actualy my point is that the majority of your religion is based on Catholicism and that you are basically a cafeteria catholic who chooses what they want to believe. Your denomination just gave themselves a name.
The fact that you celebrate Easter and Christmas on the catholic designated days is just one glaring example.

 

[MMDad]

Hi Bob,
Thats not true the Mormons only have a small part of the King James Bible as they say Joe didn't have time to finish interpreting the rest.

That's a lie. The Mormons believe in every word of the KJV Bible.

It's amazing how bigotry is always based on half truths and outright lies. Before you condemn the Mormons as not being Christians, you should at least learn enough about them to have an informed opinion. Or, if you actually do know the truth, quit lying.

 

[StoneThrower]

That's a lie. The Mormons believe in every word of the KJV Bible.

It's amazing how bigotry is always based on half truths and outright lies. Before you condemn the Mormons as not being Christians, you should at least learn enough about them to have an informed opinion. Or, if you actually do know the truth, quit lying.

Hog wash, They don't even have all of it! If they did, they would believe Jesus is God, rather than the son of God as in Sabellianism. They believe He's the brother of Lucifer, and that He was Michael the arch angel a created being. The also don't believe that he always was and was co existent with the father.
They also think that they are the one true church and that they are the only Christians. That's why they call themselves Christians with a strait face.
They also believe God was a man and became God, and that we can become god's on Kolab and make spirit babies.
They embrace the Cult of the Freemasons. Joseph Smith praticed witch craft and freemasonry. The outside of the temple in Salt lake is littered with these symbols as well as a pentegram!

Would you like me to break out the book on how to do Mormon evangelism, or how to do the Mormon priestly rituals, or perhaps the Pearl of Great Price or the Doctrine and Covenants, The book of mormon. I have all of them, and more if you really want to discuss this.
I prefer to get my info from the source so even a Mormon cant refute it. I dont get their theology from Glenn Beck

Also when they talk about the atonement they mean something totally different than a Christan does. They have adopted the lingo but tied a different meaning to it.

They also don't have a clue what to do with Ephesians 2:8-9 because of there works based righteousness.

Start a new thread. I am game now is a great time to educate people as to what mormons are and why there is nothing, and I mean nothing that is Christian about them.

 

[cheezgrits]

Wow. Simply wow.

 

[MMDad]

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest man in the world.