baydoll
New Member
But of course! This was predicted as well.
You should know this....considering how you are such an expert on it.
If I were Mary's mother and was a Jew and knew my Old Testament I would.
As in the days of Noah.....
- Thread starter baydoll
- Start date
But of course! This was predicted as well.
You should know this....considering how you are such an expert on it.
If I were Mary's mother and was a Jew and knew my Old Testament I would.
baydoll
New Member
Non-Christian References to Jesus:
Christian CADRE--Answering Skeptics
Christian CADRE--Answering Skeptics
Christian CADRE--Answering Skeptics
That's some, there are many more if you are interested.
Christian CADRE--Answering Skeptics
Christian CADRE--Answering Skeptics
Christian CADRE--Answering Skeptics
That's some, there are many more if you are interested.
tommyjones
New Member
tommyjones
New Member
But of course! This was predicted as well.
You should know this....considering how you are such an expert on it.
If I were Mary's mother and was a Jew and knew my Old Testament I would.
well then why didn't the jews of the time?
and this is just one of the many inconsistancies, or falsehoods that you gladly accept in order to allow your fairytale to exist.
the only people of the time that attest to jesus' greatness or supremity were followers of the christian cult, the rest were skeptical
baydoll
New Member
Gamble His clothes during said execution;
You will have to show me where this was prophecised:
Old:
I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. (Psalms 22:17-18)
New:
And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves, casting lots; and sitting down, they began to keep watch over Him there. (Matthew 27:35-36)
Portrayed for a specific amount of money:
You will have to show me where this was prophecised:
Old:
And I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. (Zechariah 11:12)
New:
Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests, and said, "What are you willing to give me to deliver Him up to you?" And they weighed out to him thirty pieces of silver. (Matthew 26:14-15)
Arranged to be portrayed by a friend:
Old:
Even my close friend, in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me. (Psalms 41:9)
For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, Then I could bear it; Nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, Then I could hide myself from him. But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend. (Psalms 55:12-13)
"And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will say,' Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.' (Zechariah 13:6)
New:
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor." While He was still speaking, behold, a multitude came, and the one called Judas, one of the twelve, was preceding them; and he approached Jesus to kiss Him. But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?" (Luke 22:47-48)
And immediately he went to Jesus and said, "Hail, Rabbi!" and kissed Him. And Jesus said to him, "Friend, do what you have come for." Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him. (Matthew 26:49-50)
Breaking the legs of the victim beside Him but not His:
Old:
He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken. (Psalms 34:20)
New:
The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs;... For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken." (John 19:32, 33, 36)
His Resurrection after the third day:
Old:
Hosea 6:2 (NIV) After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
Matthew 12:40 (NIV) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Show independent proof:
THE RESURRECTION IS A FACT
Professor Thomas Arnold, for 14 years a headmaster of Rugby, author of the famous, History of Rome, and appointed to the chair of modern history at Oxford, was well acquainted with the value of evidence in determining historical facts. This great scholar said: "I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God bath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead." Brooke Foss Westcott, an English scholar, said: "raking all the evidence together, it is not too much to say that there is no historic incident better or more variously supported than the resurrection of Christ. Nothing but the antecedent assumption that it must be false could have suggested the idea of deficiency in the proof of it." (Josh McDowell)
Arrange to be put to death on a Cross; Jesus knew that the method of execution was crucifiction, he purposefully commited a crime in the temple fully knowing he would be prosecuted. So it was easy.
My thoughts: You are right. He could have done that and yes it would have been easy for Him to do so…but how do you explain all the other variables involved?
Now it's your turn: Please provide evidence that Jesus didn't do any of the above.
You will have to show me where this was prophecised:
Old:
I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. (Psalms 22:17-18)
New:
And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves, casting lots; and sitting down, they began to keep watch over Him there. (Matthew 27:35-36)
Portrayed for a specific amount of money:
You will have to show me where this was prophecised:
Old:
And I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. (Zechariah 11:12)
New:
Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests, and said, "What are you willing to give me to deliver Him up to you?" And they weighed out to him thirty pieces of silver. (Matthew 26:14-15)
Arranged to be portrayed by a friend:
Old:
Even my close friend, in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me. (Psalms 41:9)
For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, Then I could bear it; Nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, Then I could hide myself from him. But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend. (Psalms 55:12-13)
"And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will say,' Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.' (Zechariah 13:6)
New:
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor." While He was still speaking, behold, a multitude came, and the one called Judas, one of the twelve, was preceding them; and he approached Jesus to kiss Him. But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?" (Luke 22:47-48)
And immediately he went to Jesus and said, "Hail, Rabbi!" and kissed Him. And Jesus said to him, "Friend, do what you have come for." Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him. (Matthew 26:49-50)
Breaking the legs of the victim beside Him but not His:
Old:
He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken. (Psalms 34:20)
New:
The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs;... For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken." (John 19:32, 33, 36)
His Resurrection after the third day:
Old:
Hosea 6:2 (NIV) After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
Matthew 12:40 (NIV) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Show independent proof:
THE RESURRECTION IS A FACT
Professor Thomas Arnold, for 14 years a headmaster of Rugby, author of the famous, History of Rome, and appointed to the chair of modern history at Oxford, was well acquainted with the value of evidence in determining historical facts. This great scholar said: "I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God bath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead." Brooke Foss Westcott, an English scholar, said: "raking all the evidence together, it is not too much to say that there is no historic incident better or more variously supported than the resurrection of Christ. Nothing but the antecedent assumption that it must be false could have suggested the idea of deficiency in the proof of it." (Josh McDowell)
Arrange to be put to death on a Cross; Jesus knew that the method of execution was crucifiction, he purposefully commited a crime in the temple fully knowing he would be prosecuted. So it was easy.
My thoughts: You are right. He could have done that and yes it would have been easy for Him to do so…but how do you explain all the other variables involved?
Now it's your turn: Please provide evidence that Jesus didn't do any of the above.
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baydoll
New Member
EXACTLY!! You've nailed it brilliantly what I think.
That's EXACTLY what I was trying to convey! I was hoping that SOMEONE on here might be remotely interested in the 'things' of great importance and of great value (like their souls and the souls of their loved ones) other than the silly, vain, frivolous EMPTY 'things' of this world.
Guess I was wrong.
baydoll
New Member
tommyjones
New Member
Gamble His clothes during said execution;
You will have to show me where this was prophecised:
Old:
I can count all my bones. They look, they stare at me; they divide my garments among them, and for my clothing they cast lots. (Psalms 22:17-18)
it was most likely the custom to divey up people stuff when they were dead
New:
And when they had crucified Him, they divided up His garments among themselves, casting lots; and sitting down, they began to keep watch over Him there. (Matthew 27:35-36)
Portrayed for a specific amount of money:
You will have to show me where this was prophecised:
Old:
And I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. (Zechariah 11:12)
That doesn't say "And they paid him 30 for betraying jesus, gods son
New:
Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests, and said, "What are you willing to give me to deliver Him up to you?" And they weighed out to him thirty pieces of silver. (Matthew 26:14-15)
Arranged to be portrayed by a friend:
Old:
Even my close friend, in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me. (Psalms 41:9)
For it is not an enemy who reproaches me, Then I could bear it; Nor is it one who hates me who has exalted himself against me, Then I could hide myself from him. But it is you, a man my equal, My companion and my familiar friend. (Psalms 55:12-13)
"And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will say,' Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.' (Zechariah 13:6)
where are these wounds adressed in the new testament?
New:
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor." While He was still speaking, behold, a multitude came, and the one called Judas, one of the twelve, was preceding them; and he approached Jesus to kiss Him. But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?" (Luke 22:47-48)
And immediately he went to Jesus and said, "Hail, Rabbi!" and kissed Him. And Jesus said to him, "Friend, do what you have come for." Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him. (Matthew 26:49-50)
Breaking the legs of the victim beside Him but not His:
Old:
He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken. (Psalms 34:20)
you are reading an awful lot into one line, what is the context?
New:
The soldiers therefore came, and broke the legs of the first man, and of the other man who was crucified with Him; but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs;... For these things came to pass, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, "Not a bone of Him shall be broken." (John 19:32, 33, 36)
His Resurrection after the third day:
Old:
Hosea 6:2 (NIV) After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.
Matthew 12:40 (NIV) For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
so you are saying it is just as likely that jesus was resurrected as it is that jonah actually spent 3 days and nights inside a giant fish, err a whale, but that isn't a fish
Show independent proof:
THE RESURRECTION IS A FACT
Professor Thomas Arnold, for 14 years a headmaster of Rugby, author of the famous, History of Rome, and appointed to the chair of modern history at Oxford, was well acquainted with the value of evidence in determining historical facts. This great scholar said: "I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which God bath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead." Brooke Foss Westcott, an English scholar, said: "raking all the evidence together, it is not too much to say that there is no historic incident better or more variously supported than the resurrection of Christ. Nothing but the antecedent assumption that it must be false could have suggested the idea of deficiency in the proof of it." (Josh McDowell)
Arrange to be put to death on a Cross; Jesus knew that the method of execution was crucifiction, he purposefully commited a crime in the temple fully knowing he would be prosecuted. So it was easy.
My thoughts: You are right. He could have done that and yes it would have been easy for Him to do so…but how do you explain all the other variables involved?
wow, your independant proof is a tertiary quote. you do realize that you have some josh guy saying something was said by some english scholar who is saying something was said by ol' tommy there, right? And even if we were to accept what they say tom arnold said is true, he was living in the late 17- early 1800's and is know for starting the "broad church party" in the church of england. agian, hardly an independant or nonbiased resource.
look at the red for the rest
tommyjones
New Member
jesus is dead, just like every other person who ever walked the earth.
there you have it.
Xaquin44
New Member
yup.
tommyjones
New Member
me too.
the machine will direct its apendages to divide my parts, casting them in all directions to be taken up by others. after which my body will be turned to dust and scattered for all eternity. ooooooooo scary
(seriously, i am an organ doner and will be cremated, it aint that hard)
baydoll
New Member
And you know this how?
baydoll
New Member
baydoll
New Member
Says who?
And you must prove, without being bias, that Jesus didn't exist and He wasn't the Son of God.
Xaquin44
New Member
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tommyjones
New Member
because unlike family guy, jesus isn't walking the earth.
if he was alive, but isn't anymore, HE IS DEAD. just like every other person who ever walked the earth.
If he IS RISEN, where the eff is he, cuz he isn't walking the earth.
Xaquin44
New Member
baydoll
New Member
Well how about I give it a shot about what will happens to you after you die....
If I'm wrong and God doesn't exist and the Bible is really just a bunch of fairy tale, then you (and I ) will cease to exist. I have nothing to lose. But at least the last part of my life was much MUCH better than the first part and I will die a happy, peaceful, contented soul. Can you say the same?
But if I'm right about God and the Bible is His Word and every Word is true, then you are in for a very rude awakening, my friend.
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