As in the days of Noah.....

[Xaquin44]

I'll add a 'but' of my own...

But of course not. Which means the Egyptians couldn't have known that a person's LIFE is in the blood, otherwise they wouldn't have used this medical treatment of bloodletting on anyone to begin with.

all cultures used it in some form until the mid +/- 1700s including your christians.

 

[baydoll]

nostradomous made many many predictions, and in retrospec it is easy to match them up with history, it doens't mean they have anything to do with each other.

Care to post some of those 'many many' prediction of Nostradomous so we can actually see just how 'accurate and specific' they were?

 

[baydoll]

all cultures used it in some form until the mid +/- 1700s including your christians.

Including 'my' Christians?

What makes them 'my' Christians, exactly?

 

[Xaquin44]

Including 'my' Christians?

What makes them 'my' Christians, exactly?

because you're the one currently defending them in this thread.

I know they aren't literally yours.

 

[tommyjones]

The religious leaders prophecised His Coming? Really? Who? Seems to me the 'religious leaders' were too busy killing those Prophets that were prophecising to do any prophecising of their own. When was the last time you read the Bible?

And also, meet who's criteria....theirs?

the old testament did the prophecising, and it was the jews book. THEY determined jesus didn't meet the criteria of THE BOOK.

as for nostrodamous, there are plenty of websites that detail his works. you can research them all you want.

so how about your wind argument, care to explain to us why god would have given us such misinformation?

 

[baydoll]

because you're the one currently defending them in this thread.

I know they aren't literally yours.

I'm defending Christians in this thread? And who would 'they' be?

 

[baydoll]

the old testament did the prophecising, and it was the jews book. THEY determined jesus didn't meet the criteria of THE BOOK.

They couldn't have been wrong, now could they? Again, when was the last time you read the Bible? The Old as well as the New?

 

[baydoll]

as for nostrodamous, there are plenty of websites that detail his works. you can research them all you want.

Actually I have done quite a bit of research on nostrodamous. And I found out that he actually was not a very good prophet in the least.

I will be out of town until next Tuesday. When I get back, I am going to start a new thread discussing Mr. Nostrodamous and his many many predictions.

 

[baydoll]

so how about your wind argument, care to explain to us why god would have given us such misinformation?

Actually you didn't post ALL about the wind.

Global circulation and wind systems
Much of the solar energy that the earth receives causes intense heating in the equatorial regions. This intense heat produces powerful convection in these areas.

As the warm, moist air rises, it creates a zone of low pressure, clouds, and precipitation along the equator. As that warm air rises, it eventually reaches the troposphere and can rise no higher. It spreads outwards towards the poles.

As it spreads, it cools and sinks back down to the surface at about 30 degrees north and south of the equator. This sinking air produces areas of higher pressure with drier conditions.

Many of the world's deserts are located in these high pressure areas, around 30o north and south of the equator.
Examples?
Sahara Desert
Great Victoria Desert, Australia
Kalahari Desert
Sonoran Desert

Some of this air, as it sinks, moves back towards the equator. This air flowing back towards the equator produces what is know as the trade winds.

The trade winds obtained their name from the sailing ships used in foreign trade, which were called traders. These winds propelled the ships from Europe to the New World.

The area near the equator where these winds die out is referred to as the doldrums.

These areas where air rises at the equator, sink at 30 degrees north and south latitude, and then flow back to the equator are known as Hadley cells. Although most of the air that sinks at 30 degrees north and south latitude returns to the equator, some of it continues to move poleward.

At approximately 60 degrees north and south, this air meets cold polar air. The areas where these air masses meet form polar fronts. The air moving in from the lower latitudes is generally warmer and will rise. It then moves back towards the equator, sinking at about 30 degrees north and south. This sinking air contributes to the high pressure systems located there.

The circulation cells that form between 30 degrees and 60 degrees north and south are called Ferrel cells.

Some of the air that rises at the polar fronts continues to move poleward, sinking at the poles and then moving back towards 60 degrees north and south.
These Hadley cells are weaker than the tropical ones.

As the air that sinks at these locations flows back along the surface of the earth, it does not flow in a straight north-south path. This flow of air is affected by the Coriolis Effect.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The Coriolis Effect
Because of the earth's rotation, any freely moving object or fluid will appear to:
Turn to the right of its direction of motion in the Northern Hemisphere and
Turn to the left of its direction of motion in the Southern Hemisphere.
(For example, note the curved wind arrows in the diagram below.)
This causes winds to travel clockwise around high pressure systems in the Northern Hemisphere, and counter-clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere.

Low pressure winds travel in the opposite direction (counter-clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere and clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere).

Because of the Coriolis Effect, winds traveling along the surface of the earth from 30 - 60 degrees north and south of the equator flow from the west to the east. These winds are referred to as the westerlies.



Idealized global circulation
The air currents moving along the surface of the Earth from the poles (90 degrees) to 60 degrees north and south of the equator, flow from east to west and are referred to as the polar easterlies.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jet Stream
The jet streams are the result of the poleward-flowing air at latitudes between 30 - 60 degrees north and south of the equator (westerlies). The speed of this wind may exceed 160 km/hr (or 100 mi/hr).

 

[tommyjones]

Actually you didn't post ALL about the wind.

like i said, why would god have given use such false, or at least incomplete information. the fact of the matter is that a global wind pattern can been observed. Your quote reference the "jet stream" as proof that job was talking about a scientific phenomonon, when in fact, he was just as inaccurate as nostradomous.

 

[Xaquin44]

I'm defending Christians in this thread? And who would 'they' be?

you're defending their entire belief structure, so yes, you are defending them.

and 'they' would be christians .... you know, the subject we were talking about.

If you're acting this stupid, then I ask you to stop.

If you're really this stupid, I ask you to pick up some night classes or something.

 

[baydoll]

you're defending their entire belief structure, so yes, you are defending them.

and 'they' would be christians .... you know, the subject we were talking about.

If you're acting this stupid, then I ask you to stop.

If you're really this stupid, I ask you to pick up some night classes or something.

I am defending the Bible, not a group of people.

Just because people call themselves 'christians' doesn't always mean it is true.

 

[baydoll]

like i said, why would god have given use such false, or at least incomplete information. the fact of the matter is that a global wind pattern can been observed. Your quote reference the "jet stream" as proof that job was talking about a scientific phenomonon, when in fact, he was just as inaccurate as nostradomous.

How was it false, tommy? How was it incomplete?

 

[tommyjones]

How was it false, tommy? How was it incomplete?

it only talks about north and south, nothing about a GLOBAL effect, which is clearly what is happening. if there was no spin to the earth, there would be no west to east jet stream.

incomplete in that it does not fully describe the phenomenon

 

[Xaquin44]

I am defending the Bible, not a group of people.

Just because people call themselves 'christians' doesn't always mean it is true.

and the christian bible is the basis for which group of religious worshipers?

ok, I'm convinced you aren't acting stupid. Which is a shame because actually being this stupid is just terrible.

 

[baydoll]

what is most telling to me is that the prophecy you use to describe that your book is right and your god the true one, is a jewish prophecy, the comeing of the messiah. Unfortunately, the jews didn't believe jesus was anything more than a man. as a result, the "cult" that follwed jesus as god was established and eventually was accepted as religion.

If you have read the Old Testament, you would have seen that's precisely PREDICTED what will happen to the Messiah, that He would be rejected and then killed by His own people:


Psalms 2

2:1
Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing?
2:2
The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against the Lord and against His Anointed, saying,
2:3
"Let us break Their bonds in pieces And cast away Their cords from us."
2:4
He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The Lord shall hold them in derision.
2:5
Then He shall speak to them in His wrath, And distress them in His deep displeasure:
2:6
"Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion."

Note that, despite being rejected, He would still become king.

Psalm 118:22,23 - The stone which the builders rejected became the head of the corner. This is the Lord's doing. [Isaiah 28:16]

Who were these 'builders'? The Jewish Leaders.


Isaiah 53:1-12 - Isaiah prophesies one whom men would disbelieve (v1), despise, and reject (v3). He was wounded and bruised for the transgressions of others (v5). He was oppressed and afflicted but did not open His mouth (v7). He was cut off out of the land of the living (v8), his soul was made an offering for sin (v10), he was numbered with the transgressors, and he poured out his soul unto death (v12).

9It will happen in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they will look to me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn. Zechariah 12

Psalms 22:16 is an excellent foretelling of what was to happen to the Messiah...it also tells us where this piercing will be ( Messiah’s hands and feet)


Zechariah 13:7 - The shepherd would be smitten and the sheep scattered.

You asked:

So i ask you, how can jesus be the messiah, if the religious leaders of the religion which prophecized his coming dont believe he meets the criteria?

These passages say just the opposite of what the Jewish leaders expected. They believed (wrongly) that their Messiah would lead them to great victory over their enemies (they were thinking in worldy terms instead of spiritually) Their own Scriptures said all along that they would reject Him and kill Him. Which is exactly what took place. Then He would become King in spite of their rejection. Again, precisely what had happened.

John 1:11 says: "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not" .

 

[tommyjones]

If you have read the Old Testament, you would have seen that's precisely PREDICTED what will happen to the Messiah, that He would be rejected and then killed by His own people:


Psalms 2




Note that, despite being rejected, He would still become king.

Psalm 118:22,23 - The stone which the builders rejected became the head of the corner. This is the Lord's doing. [Isaiah 28:16]

Who were these 'builders'? The Jewish Leaders.


Isaiah 53:1-12 - Isaiah prophesies one whom men would disbelieve (v1), despise, and reject (v3). He was wounded and bruised for the transgressions of others (v5). He was oppressed and afflicted but did not open His mouth (v7). He was cut off out of the land of the living (v8), his soul was made an offering for sin (v10), he was numbered with the transgressors, and he poured out his soul unto death (v12).



Psalms 22:16 is an excellent foretelling of what was to happen to the Messiah...it also tells us where this piercing will be ( Messiah’s hands and feet)


Zechariah 13:7 - The shepherd would be smitten and the sheep scattered.

You asked:



These passages say just the opposite of what the Jewish leaders expected. They believed (wrongly) that their Messiah would lead them to great victory over their enemies (they were thinking in worldy terms instead of spiritually) Their own Scriptures said all along that they would reject Him and kill Him. Which is exactly what took place. Then He would become King in spite of their rejection. Again, precisely what had happened.

John 1:11 says: "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not" .

two things...

first, these are just a vague as nostradomous' predictions, just about any person who was rejected by the jewish establishment could fit it.

next, jesus would have been privy to these predictions and would have KNOW what they said and what the criteria for the messiah was. THEREFORe he could have easily done certain things just for the effect of seeming like the messiah.

 

[foodcritic]

reasoning

How was it false, tommy? How was it incomplete?

I like your positions. Just keep in mind the old saying, you can't reason with a drunk person.

You are trying to convince them of the details. They have rejected the whole context.

 

[Xaquin44]

I like your positions. Just keep in mind the old saying, you can't reason with a drunk person.

You are trying to convince them of the details. They have rejected the whole context.

actually, tommy had the details. which showed the 'bible prophecy' and/or 'scientific discovery' (haha) completely inaccurate.

I know it's akin to talking to a (somehow) retarded brick wall, but, try to follow along.

 

[tommyjones]

I like your positions. Just keep in mind the old saying, you can't reason with a drunk person.

You are trying to convince them of the details. They have rejected the whole context.

actually she posted the details of the scientific theory AND the quoted prophecy, i just pointed out the inconsistancies