Banning Pitbulls

[seasquirt]

Just putting in my 2 cents worth-

Ken King has pretty much said exactly my thoughts on the issue.

vrailblonde - herding dogs can be trained to be every bit as vicious as pit bulls. They were bred to protect flocks from potential predators - I don't think their methods of dissuading a wolf or coyote (or other potential threat) from sampling some livestock would include anything diplomatic, especially if the predator ignored the initial warnings (barking, chasing).

 

[PmoneyandTT]

I remember back in the early 90's when I lived in Millington TN.. Well what they did - people who owned these types of dogs - had to take out $50,000 insurance.. Because to many of the dogs were attacking children.  Im not saying this worked - but there are alot of people that are irresponsible with any type of pets.  This was a way of making them responsible.. Not something I agree with - but people who owned pit bulls accepted this - because they didn't want to get rid of their dogs.

 

[alex]

RoseRed,

You never mentioned if the owner was convicted or not?

 

[Jameo]

I own a pit mix and she has the BEST disposition I have EVER seen in any dog.  Loves all people and other dogs.  I have been around many pit and pit mixes, and I have only seen ONE that was aggressive towards other dogs, but wasn't the least bit aggressive towards people, adults or kids.  I feel it is truly on how the animal was raised.  You raise your animal without any type of socialization with people or animals, you are going to have an aggressive animal in some way or another.  You raise a dog to retrieve waterfowl, you have a dog that will retrieve waterfowl.  You raise your dog to fight, well that's what your gonna get.

I can understand why most of the people have a bad taste in the mouths about pits, because they believe everything they heard and/or read!  I seriously doubt that people in favor of this ban have never had a personal bad experience with a pit.  They have only "heard" how terrible they are, so they believe they should all be done away with.  


(Edited by Jameo at 10:52 am on Jan. 31, 2002)

 

[vraiblonde]

So you all are saying that dogs are interchangeable and there's nothing to set one breed apart from another other than physical?  I'd like to hear from a trainer or someone who is more than just a pet owner.  Not that your opinions aren't valid, but I'd like to hear it from an expert before I change my mind.

What I DO know is that when my Boxer-Shepherd mix, who was baby-raised, decided to start eating people, I called a friend of mine who's a trainer.  He said that he wished I'd have called before I got the dog - seems that mix tends to have aggression problems no matter how gently they're raised.  So I don't believe that dogs will only become aggressive if the owner trains them that way.

Where's Erin?  I'm going to send her an email - if she says that pitbulls are sweet darlings, then I'll change my opinion.  She works with greyhounds but I'll bet she has some knowledge of pitbulls.

 

[Larry Gude]

Alex,

I understand your concern in regards to responsibility with someone, especially a child, innocently getting on your property despite your best efforts and then coming to harm, with you possible ending up in jail.

However, I doubt many would be OK with the idea of someone harming your dog if he were simply out of the yard just because he was out (and not supposed to be) therefore can we also say that it should not be OK for harm to come to a kid just because he was in your yard, and not supposed to be?

My point is that the dog is capable of severe harm, like a firearm and you, as the owner, in both cases, must be accountable or we will have the inevitable mob rush to legislate, removing choice and freedom.

I say if you choose to not be overly concerned, then you, rightly (you are supposed to be the judge for yourself), have judged your dog and the level of openness and concern appropriate for your yard, home et al. If you are wrong, you are liable.

The dog may be YOUR best friend, but a simple understanding that they are animals and what they can do would seem to me to advise caution and responsibility.

The very reason this is a topic is that sometimes dogs hurt innocent people. I feel the owner must be responsible.

 

[Ken King]

Vraiblonde,

No one is saying that, at least I don’t read it that way.  What I and I believe others are saying is that for the most part the animal is what the owner makes of it.  You want a mean, nasty, and vicious dog you can make one.  If you want a sweet, friendly, and joyous critter you can make one also.  Now is that a 100% guarantee that it will always be like that, hell no.  Numerous things can make an animal react back at its basic survival level (you know, fight or flight).  When one of those triggers is set off in the animal all bets are off on how it will behave, this has nothing to do with size as we know even the four pounder can be a killer.

Some animals by the general virtue of their size make them worthy of more consideration before becoming a pet.  But that is a personal decision and not one that needs to be controlled through the use of a ban.  If you have a large man-eater you should be prepared for the accompanying lawsuits.  Who knows what reasons a person has for getting one of these animals but is it the government that should tell you that you couldn’t because each year 17 people are going to die from dog bites and the breed you are interested in or own is responsible for XX percentage of those deaths.  To me this issue doesn’t make any sense when you consider that the numbers of deaths, no matter how tragic, are very few.  


(Edited by Ken King at 4:42 pm on Jan. 29, 2002)

 

[Keith Bailey]

THIS IS LONG BUT PLEASE READ ESPECIALLY THOSE OF YOU THAT SUPPORT THE BAN OF ANY ANIMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have two Staffordshire Bull Terriers, not American Staffordshire Terriers and not Pit Bull Terriers. From my extensive research, before I decided on this breed, they are what the Amstaffs and Pits were developed from.

I have a four-year daughter and a six-month old son. These dogs are great. In England, where this breed was developed they are called Nanny-Dogs because they are so GREAT with kids.

Oh yeah, by the way they look like Pit Bulls, only with larger jaw muscles, shorter legs and more muscular all around. But get this - my male is full-grown. He is 1 foot and 4 inches at the shoulder (large for this breed, maximum height for show for males) and he weighs only 35 pounds (max for show for males is 38). Females are usually shorter and weigh less and my female seems as though she will be significantly smaller, than my male. Not large by any means. These little Nanny-Dogs would be banned and that would be a shame. Just as if any other banning of any other breed would be. Banning will eventually lead to the EXTINCTION of those animal. That is permanent, no return.

I am pretty emotional right now because my worst fear was realized this Saturday. A van hit both of them, at the same time. I am still in shock but the dogs are fine. Delila was dragged about 20 feet and still under the van when it finally stopped. She dragged herself from under van and blood was gushing from her mouth and nose. I thought I was going to have to take her "out back" myself. She had sutures to close a wound in her mouth and mild liver damage, which will be fine. Samson came out of the back of the van and was up and walking in an instant. He looks beaten up and has to have his right canine extracted Thursday because it shattered after we came back home from the Vet.

First of all I truly believe that if these dogs would not have been of the very physically fit "pit bull like" breed they would not have survived the initial impact of the van. Secondly, if they had the Vet would have had to euthanize them. Why because dogs that are not "pit bull like" were not breed to have a high pain threshold and would have been delirious from the pain causing them to even attack there owners and anyone else who tried to help them even the Vet. If they made it though surgery recovery would be a sensitive time and they would be moody towards everyone. Now that high pain threshold is not a bad thing. This is what allows kids to be kids around them. They can pull the tails, poke the eyes, and fall on top of them, anything.

When I took my dogs to the Vet everyone was surprised at how well they behaved and cooperated with the examination and Delila with her surgery. Especially with all of the blood everywhere. All of you non-believers call St. Mary’sVeterinary Hospital and ask about the two dogs that got hit on the 26th.

Also all of you dog-lovers go to VA. Beach this summer and you will see what real dogs are. Everyone has Pits and Amstaffs and it was a beautiful sight. Why? When you get there you will see that they are very well behaved. The only breed that was well behaved. Dobies and Rotties and every other breed was barking and pulling and again, snapping at people even their owners. The Pits and Amstaff just glance at them as if to say, “Please be quite”. Well that is it. Sorry that this is so long but people must know the truth. Remember banning this type of dog is also banning the little ones (Staffordshire Bull Terriers – males 28-38 pounds max and females 24-34 pounds). And is one more breed closer to yours!

LOVE AND TAKE CARE OF YOUR DOGS AND LET OTHERS LOVE AND TAKE CARE THEIR’S

Remember the Nanny-Dogs

Keith Bailey

 

[RoseRed]

Alex,

I am pretty certain that he was convicted and had to do time.  Not sure how long or what ever happened with that case.  It was a long time ago.

 

[RoseRed]

Has anyone noticed on the home page how the voting for this survey is neck and neck in the running?

Does any one else find that strange....?

 

[seasquirt]

Keith - I am so sorry to hear what happened to your dogs. I really hope they recover fully! What a horrible thing to happen to one's pets.

I am with you on the Staffordshire Bull Terriers - they are some of the sweetest dogs out there. A professor of mine would bring hers in to class once in awhile, and during the slide-show parts of her lectures, the dog would come to the back of the classroom, climb up in my lap, and fall asleep with its head in the crook of my arm. He was one of the best dogs I've ever met.

I think a big part of why there are so many pit bulls trained to be vicious, aside from their physical strength, is that they are very eager to please their masters. They are some of the most devoted dogs there are. If it makes the masters happy when the dogs are mean or aggressive, and the dog gets rewarded, then that is what the dog will do. Their level of loyalty is a wonderful breed trait that is unfortunately abused to develop harmful temperaments.

 

[SxyPrincess]

Keith,

I am sorry to hear about your dogs and wish you and them the best of luck and also a speedy recovery.  

 

[Sharon]

Quote: from SxyPrincess on 9:18 am on Jan. 30, 2002[br]Keith, I am sorry to hear about your dogs and wish you and them the best of luck and also a speedy recovery.  

Me too!  How horrible.  I am surprised that either one survived, given the description of what they went through.

RoseRed...I find it very strange indeed.

 

[michelled]

It seems that people tend to stereotype all pitbulls based on our own limited experiences or the experiences of others-- not to mention all the biased media hype.  I have owned several pitbulls over the years and pitbulls are no more inheritantly vicious than humans.

For those of you disbelievers, I'd be happy to introduce you to my pit "Sasha" who doesnt have a vicious bone in her body.  As a matter of fact, she is one of the most timid dogs I've ever seen AND she's never been abused.

Perhaps we need to stop labeling the dogs and start focusing on punishing the owners of the out of control pitbulls who are teaching/training these dogs to behave this way!

 

[vraiblonde]

Still waiting to hear back from Erin...

I'm curious about something, though, in the interest of learning.  Just because a dog <i>looks</i> like a pitbull, does it mean it is in fact a pitbull?  It's my understanding that pitbull isn't even really a breed - merely a hybrid of others and bred to retain the aggressive qualities.  AmStaffs and such wouldn't count as a true pitbull.

I don't subscribe to the "them and everyone who looks like them" theory so maybe I've got it wrong.

 

[seasquirt]

This is my understanding of it -
There are several pit-bull "types" that all look similar, but when most people speak of pit bulls asa certain breed, they are referring to the American Pit Bull Terrier. As far as I know, this is the only one of the pit bull "types" that actually has the words "pit bull" in its breed name.

 

[Ken King]

vraiblonde,

This site has some great information on the animal as well as information on APBT rescue.  http://www.nyx.net/~mbur/apbt.html

One thing I didn't remember was that the dog on "Little Rascals" was an APBT.

 

[vraiblonde]

I just went to the <a href="http://www.akc.org">AKC website</a> and there is no mention of an American Pit Bull Terrier in the "Breeds" section.  The AmStaff is there and the Bull Terrier is there, but no pitbulls of any kind.  If you do a search for "pitbull" you get nothing.  If try "pit bull" you get articles about the breed ban.

In the interest of getting an education, I checked out Maryland HB 567 (the pitbull ban bill) and it says:<br><i>"Pit bull" is defined as any of the following: Staffordshire Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Pit Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, and any dog that exhibits the characteristics of these breeds"</i>

Since this was not my understanding of what a pitbull is, I'll have to check around more and get back with you.

 

[seasquirt]

The American Pit Bull Terrier is not an AKC-recognized breed. That's why it's not there. Do an internet search for American Pit Bull Terriers, and you should find the breed info, as well as which registries and kennels recognize the breed.

 

[Ken King]

Vraiblonde,

Try that site I referenced as it includes an excellent history of the breed.