Being a black man

[vraiblonde]

So what's your idea on what to do?

First offense, stick them in Gumbo's military camp. Prison is not the place for young people, unless they've committed some really terrible violent crime and rehabilitation isn't looking feasible.

Get them out of their environment and let them start fresh. What would be interesting is to get a set of mini badass wannabes in there, posturing and acting all tough, then bring in a REAL badass to teach them to be men. Because that's what most of these kids are lacking - a strong male figure in their lives.

 

[vraiblonde]

Should I search for minor errors in your posts or are you diverting the conversation now because you have no answer.

Please. When have you ever known me to NOT have an answer?

 

[juggy4805]

Please. When have you ever known me to NOT have an answer?

OMG! I agree with you 100%

 

[Ken King]

First offense, stick them in Gumbo's military camp. Prison is not the place for young people, unless they've committed some really terrible violent crime and rehabilitation isn't looking feasible.

Get them out of their environment and let them start fresh. What would be interesting is to get a set of mini badass wannabes in there, posturing and acting all tough, then bring in a REAL badass to teach them to be men. Because that's what most of these kids are lacking - a strong male figure in their lives.

Depending on the offense I could buy into that, as I said I don't have a problem with the camp type environment. However, grand-theft auto isn't one I would let slide, nor violent assault, probably most drug offenses too, and certainly repeat offenders. I am sure there are more offenses where it is obvious that the miscreant should simply be locked away. Seems we have found mutual ground at least here.

The concept that bites with our current justice system is where those under 18 go to a juvenile facility until they reach legal adulthood and then are simply released even though the same crime by an adult has serious time. Kids see no deterrent by this technique and that could use some means of fixing.

And yes, I have yet to know you not to have an answer or from sharing it, no matter how absurd it might be. Maybe we are peas from the same pod in that respect.

 

[Speedy70]

OMG! I agree with you 100%

 

[vraiblonde]

Depending on the offense I could buy into that, as I said I don't have a problem with the camp type environment. However, grand-theft auto isn't one I would let slide, nor violent assault, probably most drug offenses too, and certainly repeat offenders. I am sure there are more offenses where it is obvious that the miscreant should simply be locked away. Seems we have found mutual ground at least here.

I wouldn't lock a kid away for theft (of any kind) assault or drugs. The only only time I'd lock them up and throw away the key (unless I could gas 'em) is for a particularly vicious rape or murder. Popping a rival gang member would get them the camp - chopping someone into pieces and eating the remains would get them the death penalty.

I guess I'm thinking of a revision of our juvenile system. Instead of penning them up and babysitting them for the duration of their sentence, do something more productive instead.

 

[itsbob]

The camps don't do any good.. except help them perfect their skills.

We had two of these "camps" local to where I lived.. Vision Quest, and Abraxis.. The only thing either of the camps did is load up our community with criminals. When they "aged out" they just stayed where they were and continued with their crime ridden lives.

At the camp, the kids were always conspiring ways to get over.. from burning down the tents they lived in, to not having to do anything.. to running away.. to stealing the vehicles of the people that worked there. And the people that worked there were prevented from dealing with these deliquents the way they should be dealt with.

 

[Ken King]

I wouldn't lock a kid away for theft (of any kind) assault or drugs. The only only time I'd lock them up and throw away the key (unless I could gas 'em) is for a particularly vicious rape or murder. Popping a rival gang member would get them the camp - chopping someone into pieces and eating the remains would get them the death penalty.

I guess I'm thinking of a revision of our juvenile system. Instead of penning them up and babysitting them for the duration of their sentence, do something more productive instead.

I wouldn't let them slide for felonies, if they do the crime then they should do some time. Just a thought, but maybe they could replace a bunch of the illegals picking lettuce and such.

 

[gumbo]

then automatically enroll their butt for a 4 year hitch in the military for payment of teaching them how to live.

Dear Ken.. I was hoping that you could see past your Archie Bunker attitude to comprehend my first statement.
Notice the words in bold, this does not say anything about those who could not be thought, this is clearly refurring to those who were.


BTW a 14 ear old boy who has stolen a car should not condemned to be garbage by you or anyone else.
If his little gang click is all he knows, what else can anyone expect.


Have a nice day.

 

[vraiblonde]

At the camp, the kids were always conspiring ways to get over.. from burning down the tents they lived in, to not having to do anything.. to running away.. to stealing the vehicles of the people that worked there. And the people that worked there were prevented from dealing with these deliquents the way they should be dealt with.

Well, then if they won't get with the program and are just ruining it for those it could help, back to the slammer they go and to hell with them. This would be a privilege, not a right.

 

[gumbo]

The camps don't do any good.. except help them perfect their skills.

We had two of these "camps" local to where I lived.. Vision Quest, and Abraxis.. The only thing either of the camps did is load up our community with criminals. When they "aged out" they just stayed where they were and continued with their crime ridden lives.

At the camp, the kids were always conspiring ways to get over.. from burning down the tents they lived in, to not having to do anything.. to running away.. to stealing the vehicles of the people that worked there. And the people that worked there were prevented from dealing with these deliquents the way they should be dealt with.

Jails don't do anything but teach them how to be a professional criminal.

 

[Ken King]

Dear Ken.. I was hoping that you could see past your Archie Bunker attitude to comprehend my first statement.
Notice the words in bold, this does not say anything about those who could not be thought, this is clearly refurring to those who were.


BTW a 14 ear old boy who has stolen a car should not condemned to be garbage by you or anyone else.
If his little gang click is all he knows, what else can anyone expect.


Have a nice day.

Archie Bunker attitude? Is it your implication that I am a racist as was portrayed by that character? If it is you are sadly mistaken, unlike the author of the study it matters not to me the race of a person for anything in life. I was fortunate enough to grow up having and enjoining friendships with a very diverse group of people and my opinions and feelings towards people are based on those individual relationships and not the color of their skin. This is how I continue to live and interact with people regardless of your impressions. I might have opinions and an attitude of being tough on crime but you can be assured that I am no racist.

As I read your statement it was that those graduating the camps would then be obligated to a mandatory period of military service that would mix volunteers with forced servitude. Again I don't think it is a very good concept as many of these kids know their way around systems and how to play the game to survive for their benefit. That is simply my belief and what I remember from days when judges did something similar.

To believe that these kids will somehow see the light as to their wrong-doing, and then walk the straight and narrow, while admirable is in my mind naive. I also believe that a 14 year-old car thief should serve a penalty for that act of theft. And if the sentence for that act were to be 7 years then the kid should do 7 years and not be let out just because they turn 18. If making people pay the price for their illegal acts is considered to make them garbage by you so be it. I simply see it as paying a price for what they have done, being held to account for their acts and doing anything less sends a message of condoning the behavior thus perpetuating it.

 

[gumbo]

Archie Bunker attitude? Is it your implication that I am a racist as was portrayed by that character? If it is you are sadly mistaken, unlike the author of the study it matters not to me the race of a person for anything in life. I was fortunate enough to grow up having and enjoining friendships with a very diverse group of people and my opinions and feelings towards people are based on those individual relationships and not the color of their skin. This is how I continue to live and interact with people regardless of your impressions. I might have opinions and an attitude of being tough on crime but you can be assured that I am no racist.

As I read your statement it was that those graduating the camps would then be obligated to a mandatory period of military service that would mix volunteers with forced servitude. Again I don't think it is a very good concept as many of these kids know their way around systems and how to play the game to survive for their benefit. That is simply my belief and what I remember from days when judges did something similar.

To believe that these kids will somehow see the light as to their wrong-doing, and then walk the straight and narrow, while admirable is in my mind naive. I also believe that a 14 year-old car thief should serve a penalty for that act of theft. And if the sentence for that act were to be 7 years then the kid should do 7 years and not be let out just because they turn 18. If making people pay the price for their illegal acts is considered to make them garbage by you so be it. I simply see it as paying a price for what they have done, being held to account for their acts and doing anything less sends a message of condoning the behavior thus perpetuating it.

Do you not understand that children are like un programmed computers, every piece of input they get from their environment makes up who they will become. If all you know is ghetto,then you will more than likely be ghetto.
So what your really saying is every computer that has a glitch or an error can't be fixed and should be dis-guarded.

I did not say a damn thing about, nor did I imply that you were a racist.
Archie Bunker was many things, he was close minded, a bigot and a racist. You pick the one I was implying, it should be fairly easy since one has been removed from the equation.

Once again..Did I say or imply, that all who attend boot camp do a 4 year hitch, or did I say those who were taught?

Actually children respond very well to boot camps the problem I see is that they are returned back into their cesspool environment.
If you offer them a way out of the cesspool, after release of boot camp, lets say a real training program by our armed forces ,"you earn your way into the service".
I bet people would be surprised at how many of these kids jump on it.



http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/187680.pdf

 

[Pete]

Do you not understand that children are like un programmed computers, every piece of input they get from their environment makes up who they will become. If all you know is ghetto,then you will more than likely be ghetto.

I disagree in part. I agree that environment is one of the biggest influences on youth. However, a great deal of it is genetic mis-wiring of the coping mechanism with societal pressures.

Case 1.

Very good friends of my grandparents lived in CA. When I was stationed there I looked them up and they became my good friends as well. They were barren and could not have kids so they adopted 2 infants. #1 was 3 years old when they adopted #2. Each child was from different women. Both kids had the same parents, same home, same schools, same neighborhoods. Child #1 was a dream kid, now an executive with a food production company out of Iowa, great spouse, great kids. Child #2 was trouble, trouble with the law, endless relationships, illegitimate kid, homeless for a time, drugs, basically trash. Same exact environment totally different outcomes.

Case 2. My sister and I. Not that I am a great success story I am independent, financially secure, responsible, desire and have nice things and a good standard of living. My sister is the exact opposite. Constant trouble, dropped out of school, law trouble, married 4 times, her kid was raised by my parents, about the only thing she hasn't done is get into drugs. Her rented trailer is a dump and she has nothing. Same parents, same schools, same neighborhoods, same relatives, different outcomes.

 

[vraiblonde]

Case 1.

Very good friends of my grandparents lived in CA. When I was stationed there I looked them up and they became my good friends as well. They were barren and could not have kids so they adopted 2 infants. #1 was 3 years old when they adopted #2. Each child was from different women. Both kids had the same parents, same home, same schools, same neighborhoods. Child #1 was a dream kid, now an executive with a food production company out of Iowa, great spouse, great kids. Child #2 was trouble, trouble with the law, endless relationships, illegitimate kid, homeless for a time, drugs, basically trash. Same exact environment totally different outcomes.

This is what happened with my great-aunt and uncle. They adopted two kids (who are my peers, even though Auntie and Unc are my grandmother's age) as babies. The boy is a solid dude - good family, solid career, just an all-around good guy like his (adopted) Dad.

The girl, on the other hand.... Drugs, sleeping with any guy she could get her filthy mitts on, her son actually ran away from home when he was 14 (yes, 14) and became a prostitute, servicing the queens. They found him drugged out, cigarette burns all over his body, just a heartbreaking mess. And he's actually a nice kid. His Mom was too busy doing drugs and screwing the cowboys to pay him any mind and he just got mixed up in the stuff. She and I were very close when we were kids and she was always such a goody-goody, but she went bad when she hit about 16 or so and never looked back.

I believe that how kids turn out is predominantly how they're raised, like Gumbo said, but there are exceptions.

 

[Pete]

This is what happened with my great-aunt and uncle. They adopted two kids (who are my peers, even though Auntie and Unc are my grandmother's age) as babies. The boy is a solid dude - good family, solid career, just an all-around good guy like his (adopted) Dad.

The girl, on the other hand.... Drugs, sleeping with any guy she could get her filthy mitts on, her son actually ran away from home when he was 14 (yes, 14) and became a prostitute, servicing the queens. They found him drugged out, cigarette burns all over his body, just a heartbreaking mess. And he's actually a nice kid. His Mom was too busy doing drugs and screwing the cowboys to pay him any mind and he just got mixed up in the stuff. She and I were very close when we were kids and she was always such a goody-goody, but she went bad when she hit about 16 or so and never looked back.

I believe that how kids turn out is predominantly how they're raised, like Gumbo said, but there are exceptions.

Funny, in my case 1 the sexes are male=good guy, female=loser.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm. Do chics have a higher likelyhood to end up loser trash?

 

[gumbo]

Funny, in my case 1 the sexes are male=good guy, female=loser.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm. Do chics have a higher likelyhood to end up loser trash?

I'm so not going there..

 

[jazz lady]

Funny, in my case 1 the sexes are male=good guy, female=loser.

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm. Do chics have a higher likelyhood to end up loser trash?

In my case, it's the exact opposite so I don't think that's the case. Sis and I are both very successful while my brother is the low-life druggie loser. :shrug:

 

[gumbo]

In my case, it's the exact opposite so I don't think that's the case. Sis and I are both very successful while my brother is the low-life druggie loser. :shrug:

Is he the youngest?

 

[jazz lady]

Is he the youngest?

No, I'm the youngest, sis is the oldest, and he's in the middle.

Come to think of it, my half-sister is the successful one and my half-brother is a low-life druggie. Hmm....