Bible contradictions

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Lugnut said:
All this religion talk has had me reading quite a bit lately (both on and off the web).

One site I ran across was http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com which details quite a few contradictions in the bible.

Lugnut, it's good that you are searching for the truth, but not on that website. There are so many people out there pointing out "apparent" contradictions that they could confuse anyone. Their site sells books by a guy named "Spong" and he knows nothing that the Bible says so stay far away from it. I couldn't even begin to address all the statements listed there but I suggest that you be concerned only with the ones that YOU have questions about my friend. You'll find that there are NO contradictions in the Bible. They're just verses that can only be explained with guidance from God. There is one great resource for books on this topic. It's called the Christian Research Institute at www.equip.org. They have very good books/flyers on these very issues. Hope this helps you and if I can address an issue for you here, let me know and I'll try. :yay:
 

Lugnut

I'm Rick James #####!
A friend gave me a NIV study bible a few years ago. Just cracked it open last night.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Lugnut said:
All this religion talk has had me reading quite a bit lately (both on and off the web).

One site I ran across was http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com which details quite a few contradictions in the bible.
Lugnut, I commend you on your decision to undertake reading the Bible. It is not easy. Much will seem like utter nonsense to someone who has not accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord.

I will say that the only people that find contradictions in the Bible are those that take things out of context or understanding the background of the passage.

God bless you with His wisdom as you read.
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
Lugnut said:
A friend gave me a NIV study bible a few years ago. Just cracked it open last night.
I've been using the NIV study Bible for 18 years and what an easy book to read & understand. The actual verses are on top and the explanations are on the bottom. Not every verse is explained but don't worry about it. Every time you read the Bible, it will make more sense. I would recommend starting in the New Testament because, as a new reader, you might find a lot of the OlD Testament somewhat boring. Go ahead and start in Genesis and, if you start to lose interest, jump ahead to Matthew and read all the way through to Revelation. The New testament tells more about Jesus and will keep your interest more. I wish you well and let us know what you think as you go along. :high5:
 

Celts

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
Lugnut, I commend you on your decision to undertake reading the Bible. It is not easy. Much will seem like utter nonsense to someone who has not accepted Jesus as Savior and Lord.

I will say that the only people that find contradictions in the Bible are those that take things out of context or understanding the background of the passage.

God bless you with His wisdom as you read.

True...and he Bible is about talking stuff on faith..not actual, because like @nd said, it gets all taken out of context and wars begin.
There are 1000 ways to get from So. Maryland to Alaska...many roads, many means..but the destination is the same.
God is the same way..many beliefs, many versions on the Bible, but the destination is the same. Salvation and the Word.
 

supersurfer

New Member
ItalianScallion said:
I've been using the NIV study Bible for 18 years and what an easy book to read & understand. The actual verses are on top and the explanations are on the bottom. Not every verse is explained but don't worry about it. Every time you read the Bible, it will make more sense.

It will make more sense? This is nothing more than brain washing. For some odd reason the indoctrination scene in "A Clockwork Orange" popped into my mind when I picture you reading the Bible.

The Story of B" by Daniel Quinn said:
I wonder if you've ever considered how strange it is that the educational and character-shaping structures of our culture expose us but a single time in our lives to the ideas of Socrates, Plato, Euclid, Aristotle, Herodotus, Augustine, Machiavelli, Shakespeare, Descartes, Rousseau, Newton, Racine, Darwin, Kant, Kierkegaard, Tolstoy, Schopenhauer, Goethe, Freud, Marx, Einstein, and dozens of others of the same rank, but expose us annually, monthly, weekly, and even daily to the ideas of persons like Jesus, Moses, Muhammad, and Buddha. Why is it, do you think, that we need quarterly lectures on charity, while a single lecture on the laws of thermodynamics is presumed to last us a lifetime? Why is the meaning of Christmas judged to be so difficult of comprehension that we must hear a dozen explications of it, not once in a lifetime, but every single year, year after year after year? Perhaps even more to the point, why do the pious (who already know every word of whatever text they find holy) need to have it repeated to them week after week after week, and even day after day after day?

I'll wager that, if there are physicists listening to me here tonight, you do not keep a copy of Newton's Principia on your bedside table. I'll wager that the astronomers among you do not reach on waking for a copy of Copernicus's De revolutionibus orbium coelestium, that the geneticists among you do not spend a daily hour in reverential communion with The Double Helix, that the anatomists among you do not make a point of reading a passage a night from De humani corporis fabrica, that the sociologists among you do not carry with you everywhere a treasured copy of Die protestantische Ethik und der Geist des Kapitalismus. But you know very well that hundreds of millions of people thumb daily through holy books that will be read from cover to cover not a dozen times during a lifetime but a dozen dozen.

Have you ever wondered why it is the duty of the clergy of so many sects to read the Divine Office----daily? Why the same affirmations of faith are repeated word for word in so many religious communities around the world----daily? Is it so difficult to remember that Allah is One or that Christ died for our sins that it must be reiterated at least once every day throughout life? Of course we know that these things aren't in the least difficult to remember. And we know that the pious don't go to church every Sunday because they've forgotten that Jesus loves them but rather because they've not forgotten that Jesus loves them. They want to hear it again and again and again and again. In some sense or other, they need to hear it again and again and again and again. They can live without hearing the laws of thermodynamics ten thousand times, but for some reason, they cannot live without hearing the laws of their gods ten thousand times.



It doesn't make sense, that's why you have to take it on faith. It's the same with God. You have to have faith to believe in Him and to believe the Bible. Why? Because it goes against all Laws of Nature and common sense. If you run into a difficult passage, or something that obviously is self contradicting, what do you do? You take it on faith.

I encourage everyone to read the Bible, but don't be foolish with it, If you have questions, ask them. Get answers from both sides of the house and draw your own conclusion. A google search will turn up many Christian forums where you can ask your questions. A google search on Atheist forums will turn up the same. Ask a Christian on here where you can look for answer. I would personally recommend the following forums to ask on.
http://www.graveyardofthegods.com/forum/index.php
http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
supersurfer said:
It will make more sense? This is nothing more than brain washing. It doesn't make sense, that's why you have to take it on faith. It's the same with God. You have to have faith to believe in Him and to believe the Bible. Why? Because it goes against all Laws of Nature and common sense. If you run into a difficult passage, or something that obviously is self contradicting, what do you do? You take it on faith.
I encourage everyone to read the Bible, but don't be foolish with it, If you have questions, ask them. Get answers from both sides of the house and draw your own conclusion.
That's a dangerous statement to make about the very words that we are ALL going to be judged by someday. You can't say it doesn't make sense in ALL cases. Anyone can read the Bible and understand some of it. Once a person becomes "saved" by faith in Christ, they can understand A LOT more of it. NO ONE will ever understand all of it because it is about an infinite Being whom we'll never fully understand until we meet Him on the other side. If I don't understand something now, maybe later God will let me understand it. I don't "take it on faith" because I don't know what it means. I just let it go and maybe later I will get the meaning, maybe not. God doesn't reveal too much to us at one time because we can't handle too much at one time. Just as a 15 year old receiving millions of dollars has no idea how to manage it, so it is with us trying to manage too much of God's wisdom too soon. This is why we hear about (your quotations from Mr.Quinn) one time, but we must read the Bible throughout our lives to understand it more. It's not just a book of facts but one where truth is slowly revealed to us when we are ready to handle it. Brainwashed is hardly the word to use for me my friend. :howdy:
 

wxtornado

The Other White Meat
ItalianScallion said:
That's a dangerous statement to make about the very words that we are ALL going to be judged by someday. You can't say it doesn't make sense in ALL cases. Anyone can read the Bible and understand some of it. Once a person becomes "saved" by faith in Christ, they can understand A LOT more of it. NO ONE will ever understand all of it because it is about an infinite Being whom we'll never fully understand until we meet Him on the other side. If I don't understand something now, maybe later God will let me understand it. I don't "take it on faith" because I don't know what it means. I just let it go and maybe later I will get the meaning, maybe not. God doesn't reveal too much to us at one time because we can't handle too much at one time. Just as a 15 year old receiving millions of dollars has no idea how to manage it, so it is with us trying to manage too much of God's wisdom too soon. This is why we hear about (your quotations from Mr.Quinn) one time, but we must read the Bible throughout our lives to understand it more. It's not just a book of facts but one where truth is slowly revealed to us when we are ready to handle it. Brainwashed is hardly the word to use for me my friend. :howdy:

You theists are constantly saying we need some sort of special gift to understand his word, and you never seem to see the circular logic in it all.

You'd think God - as all powerful as he is - would be able to think up some foolproof ways to make his message clear. Instead, it appears as if he does exactly the opposite.

He could have revealed a trove of NT writings appear on a building that were clearly chiseled in during the period of time. You know, like the false god Amon-Ra did with the pyramids - direct and uninterrupted pedigree from the author's hands to our eyes today.

But.... nah, God didn't do that. He kept it "oral" since, as we all know, the oral method is impossible to circumvent or corrupt.

He could have allowed to survive records from Rome. After all, he did apprently let less important documents from the time survive fine.

But nah... he didn't do that either. He left it open to disagreement because after all - he merely wants people to believe so they don't wind up being damned forever.

Hey, he's God - he could have the words enblazoned in the sky for all to see - in every language - simultaneously.

But then... nah.... he'd rather have a few thousand reinterpretations filtered through a few million people over time, and allow the bible to change time and time and time again.

He could "wipe out" all competitive "sacred texts" as they were being written - you know, as "And they all bombed one another happily ever after" was written at the end of the Qu'ran, it could combust and disappear. Only the Bible could survive.

But nah - he doesn't do that either.

And of course, he could have made it so it said things that made sense. Like it could have accurately described how creation occured and the story could adhere to the verifiable evidence.

But nah, he doesn't do that EITHER! (I love the excuse for this one: People back then wouldn't understand the scientific complexity of evolution, so God chose a simpler way - as if all the other stuff in the Bible - global floods, plagues of locusts, parting seas, talking mules, the sun standing still in the sky - are somehow more understandable than "creatures change with each generation and species evolve". Hell, those shepherds were completely aware of such things - which is how they domesticated and bred better flocks. These were people in a time that were sophisticated enough to build the pyramids around atronomical blueprints as well - but somehow they're too primitive to understand a simplified version of evolution?? Riiiight.)

In the end, what God apparently does do is behave EXACTLY as if he didn't exist in the first place - which of course is no surprise.

He leaves gaps, he allows translations, he doesn't cross reference with other works, and he lets it sit there about as useful as a doorstop.

Which is why not everyone buys it as a book about truth.
 

KingFish

Nothing to see here
THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEVOTIONAL THAT DEALS WITH HOW TO TRUST WHAT YOU READ ON CHRISTIAN INTERNET SITES, HEAR ON CHRISTIAN RADIO, AND SEE ON
CHRISTIAN TELEVISION. IT ALSO LOOKS AT ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS IN
CHRISTENDOM TODAY, HOW TO TRUST WHAT CHURCH TO GO TO. THIS IS A WORD, AND WARNING, THAT YOU WILL WANT TO SHARE WITH EVERYONE YOU KNOW!

DAILY DEVOTIONAL MONDAY APRIL 23, 2007
(Galatians 1:6-12, Acts 8:9-13, 2 Timothy 3:16)

How can you trust what you read on Christian Internet sites, hear on Christian radio, or see on Christian television. Even more important, how can trust you what church to go to? Every single day, we are inundated here at Liveprayer with emails from people who are confused and misled because of things they have read on Christian websites. There are currently over a million websites that claim to be "Christian." Along this same line, we also deal every day with people who email us with questions about something they heard on Christian radio or saw on Christian television. Most alarming, however, are the emails we get daily from people confused because of what they were told at a church they went to.

From the very beginning of the church in the Book of Acts, heresy was a problem. Every time I read the passage about Simon the Sorcerer in Acts Chapter 8, I can't help but to think of many of the people you see on TV today representing Christ. Paul was constantly dealing with those who were preaching "another gospel," a perversion of the Truth. Writings in contradiction to the Scriptures were very prominent even at the time the books of the New Testament were being written. Apostate churches, churches that operated in rebellion to God's Word have been part of the scene since the church was birthed right after the death and resurrection of Jesus. So these are not new issues the church has had to contend with.

Let me give you some basic rules to try and help you so that you are not deceived by what you read on "Christian websites," watch and hear on Christian TV and radio, and so that you are not going to a church that is operating in rebellion to God despite their claim to be "Christian." When it comes to Christian websites, you are dealing with a very dangerous world for the simple fact that there are no standards, no controls, no
restrictions on content. For less than $100 you can create a website and
for $20 a month have it hosted. This allows basically anyone to have a website on the Internet. I don't think I need to say much more for you to see how incredibly dangerous this is when the reality is, virtually anyone can have a "Christian" website that says anything you can dream up..AND THEY DO!

I look for several things when I am visiting a Christian website I am not familiar with. The first thing is who put the website up? What is the name of the person or organization responsible for the content. Second, if I don't know that person or organization, I want to find out who they are.
What is their Statement of Faith? Lastly and most critical, does what they say line up with God's Word? (Here we are, back at that critical place we come to often when it is so important for you to read and study God's Word so that you can discern when you are being told something that is simply not in the Bible or a perversion of what God says in His Word.) If I can't find out who the person or organization is, what their Statement of Faith is, I refuse to even read what is on their site. A legitimate Christian website is going to be very up front about who they are and what they believe.

When it comes to Christian radio and television, it is not quite as easy since you are dealing with people who are proficient in speaking as well as in eliciting your emotions, making it much more difficult to discern those who are preaching a false message. Since they all use the Bible, it makes it very difficult to discern error when they take Scripture out of context or pervert it. That is why when it comes to anyone on radio or television, unless I know who they are, where they stand doctrinally, I won't even allow myself to listen to them. Again, it goes back to knowing WHO the person is that is feeding you spiritually. Not too many people are going to let a stranger come up to you on the street and give you something to eat they have cooked. If you are that cautious about what you eat when it comes to food for your body, you should be even more cautious when it comes to the spiritual food for your eternal soul!

Without a doubt, what drives me crazy every day are so called "churches"
that are no more a church than a mosque is! Just 50 years ago, you could go to any Christian church regardless of their denomination, and even though there might be some difference in some of the doctrinal issues we have used to divide ourselves, the bottom line was that they still preached and taught from one source...THE BIBLE! In most churches today, you are more likely to hear passages from new Age garbage like "The Secret," or a book of poems, or about any book OTHER THAN God's Word. In some churches, you have to make sure you are not in the local comedy club as you are fed a monologue of jokes. The fact is that you will rarely go to a church where you will actually hear about sin and be brought under conviction about anything, since the goal is not to help you grow spiritually, but entertain you and all at all costs, NOT OFFEND YOU OR ANYONE!

Of course, you are very likely to go to a church and sit next to a man and woman living together outside of the bonds of marriage who don't even know that is not God's plan, or next to Thomas and Mark who are in a "loving relationship," or a local attorney who is married and having an affair everyone knows about with the cute girl in the third row of the choir. You are more likely to get a free toaster for coming to church than a Bible.
You won't hear about how to save souls, but you will hear about next "Vegas night" with all the proceeds going to the churches school. You will hear stories of reaching people in some far off country, but never hear about any efforts to reach the people who live within a block of the church. You will be challenged to give to build a new building, but not save the lost. You are more likely to see a skit or creative dance number than hear how to be a Godly mother or father. One thing I guarantee you that you will NOT hear on Sunday in 90% of the so call churches out there, and that is in invitation to know Jesus as your Savior!

It is easy to warn people about the cults like the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Unitarians, who try to masquerade as "Christian churches."
The sad reality of the year 2007 is that I am just as leery of most churches who claim to be followers of Christ! Churches that openly promote and glorify gross sin like homosexuality. Churches that support a woman's choice to kill her unborn baby. Here is the bottom line litmus test for any pastor and church... God's Word. If any pastor does not believe that the Bible is God's inspired, inerrant Word, representing Absolute Truth and our final authority in all matters, that is a man to RUN FROM! Any church that is not preaching and teaching the Bible, is a church to RUN FROM! There is only ONE TRUTH, the Bible. There is only ONE BOOK that can transform the hearts and lives of men, the Bible! The job of the church is to save the lost, spiritually feed from God's Word the congregation, provide a community of faith for Believers, and train and equip the saints to serve the Lord!

I love you and care about you so much. The Internet is such a great tool to reach people for Christ. I thank God daily for this incredible technology that we have been able to use to reach tens of millions of people all over the world over these past 8 years, impact millions of lives for Christ, and see over 170,000 people we know of rerouted from a conveyor belt to hell to a mansion in Glory! However, it is also a very dangerous place since there are no restrictions or guidelines and anyone with a few dollars can put up whatever content they want, leading unsuspecting people astray with false theology and bad doctrine. That is why it is critical to know who is putting up the website what they really believe, and measure all they say thru the filter of God's Word.

You should use the same guidelines for Christian radio and television. KNOW WHO THE PERSON IS who is feeding you spiritually. Check them out before you listen to them. Most of the people you will see and hear have a great gift to communicate, they know how to play on your emotions, and they can be very deceiving in the things they say. When it comes to where you go to church, the pastor is critical since he is the one God called to lead that congregation. He MUST believe the Bible to be God's inspired and inerrant Word and needs to preach and teach from that Book. There is no other source of Truth, and there are no other words that can transform your heart and life for this life and all eternity.

NEVER FORGET THIS. No matter how beautiful a website may be, no matter how charismatic a man or woman on radio or television may be, no mater how gorgeous and state-of-the-art a church may be, they all mean NOTHING unless they are bringing you the Truth of God's Word. Without the Truth of the Bible, a website can do nothing! As clever as many of these men and women in Christian media think they are, they only have one message that means anything, the Gospel. A true church can't offer you anything of eternal significance other than to feed you with God's Word.

In the end, there is only one way you can trust what you read on Christian Internet sites, hear on radio, or see on television, and what church to go to...that is if they are presenting the Truth of the Bible!


In His love and service,
Your friend and brother in Christ,
Bill Keller
 

ItalianScallion

Harley Rider
wxtornado said:
You theists are constantly saying we need some sort of special gift to understand his word, and you never seem to see the circular logic in it all. You'd think God - as all powerful as he is - would be able to think up some foolproof ways to make his message clear. Instead, it appears as if he does exactly the opposite.
WX, hopefully I won't repeat myself but God said it not me and He DID make it clear,(not in ALL places but in enough of them). Jesus died and came back to life @2000 years ago and people who saw Him dead, then alive, STILL refused to believe in who He was! Today folks refuse to believe the truth when it is STANDING right in front of them. THE BIBLE! Friend, if you won't believe what it says in print, you won't believe it if it was "enblazoned in the sky for all to see - in every language - simultaneously"! Read Luke 16v19-31.
wxtornado said:
He could "wipe out" all competitive "sacred texts" as they were being written - you know, as "And they all bombed one another happily ever after" was written at the end of the Qu'ran, it could combust and disappear. Only the Bible could survive.
Think about it, it has!
wxtornado said:
And of course, he could have made it so it said things that made sense. Like it could have accurately described how creation occured and the story could adhere to the verifiable evidence.
The creation is clear enough and is proof of God's existence.(Romans 1) Just the complexity of the human body & the solar system proves God's existence to those who WANT to believe it.
wxtornado said:
(I love the excuse for this one: People back then wouldn't understand the scientific complexity of evolution, so God chose a simpler way - as if all the other stuff in the Bible - global floods, plagues of locusts, parting seas, talking mules, the sun standing still in the sky - are somehow more understandable than "creatures change with each generation and species evolve". Hell, those shepherds were completely aware of such things - which is how they domesticated and bred better flocks. These were people in a time that were sophisticated enough to build the pyramids around astronomical blueprints as well - but somehow they're too primitive to understand a simplified version of evolution?? Riiiight.)
People in the Bible were fairly dumb in lots of cases. Jesus told the Apostles how dumb they were many times. The problem is that our minds are limited in understanding and God is infinite, so we WILL have trouble understanding some things.
wxtornado said:
In the end, what God apparently does do is behave EXACTLY as if he didn't exist in the first place - which of course is no surprise. He leaves gaps, he allows translations, he doesn't cross reference with other works, and he lets it sit there about as useful as a doorstop.
If God doesn't exist, how could He behave in any way? History books and even Apocryphal writings speak clearly about Jesus. Even the other books, the Qu'ran, book of Mormon, etc., speak of Him but the bottom line is this. The Bible is a lot of things. A history book, a book of prophesy, a book of wisdom & guidance on how to live life and a book that reveals how to have a relationship with the God of the universe. WX, why would God write such a book, then send Jesus to walk among us and die for what we can't obtain on our own, only to try to confuse us? He didn't. He knew that certain people would refuse to believe in it, but He shows them enough to be accountable. After that He is not going to give His "secrets" to someone who will walk all over them. Besides, I know a lot if unsaved people who have read, understood & enjoyed the Bible in as much as they can understand it. Don't be so hard on it. Give it a fair shot. Your avatar makes me wonder but I know you have studied (or at least heard) of a lot of stories in the Bible, right? Rock on dude!
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Midnightrider said:
the short answer is that he didn't, people did........
That is your answer, but not THE answer. God most assuredly inspired every word of the Bible.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
2ndAmendment said:
That is your answer, but not THE answer. God most assuredly inspired every word of the Bible.
just because its yours, doesn't mean it is THE answer.

besides, even using your logic, PEOPLE most assuredly WROTE every word in the bible.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Midnightrider said:
just because its yours, doesn't mean it is THE answer.

besides, even using your logic, PEOPLE most assuredly WROTE every word in the bible.
Yep. People wrote the words guided by the Holy Spirit.

I know we won't agree; I believe and you don't. Let's leave it there.
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
2ndAmendment said:
Yep. People wrote the words guided by the Holy Spirit.

I know we won't agree; I believe and you don't. Let's leave it there.
your right, lets just leave it at the truth, people wrote the bible, you can believe what ever you want past that......
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Midnightrider said:
your right, lets just leave it at the truth, people wrote the bible, you can believe what ever you want past that......
Yep. Let's leave it at the Truth that God inspired every word written.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Since there is no scientific way to test the claim that the Bible's words were inspired by God, I would propose treating the claim as a matter of opinion. I don't see anything wrong with people having different opinions about the Bible, as long as they accept the right of others to have different opinions.
 
Top