Bible contradictions

[Midnightrider]

Since there is no scientific way to test the claim that the Bible's words were inspired by God, I would propose treating the claim as a matter of opinion. I don't see anything wrong with people having different opinions about the Bible, as long as they accept the right of others to have different opinions.

I agree completely.....
after the written by man part, anything any one wants to believe is completely OK with me.

 

[kwillia]

Since there is no scientific way to test the claim that the Bible's words were inspired by God, I would propose treating the claim as a matter of opinion. I don't see anything wrong with people having different opinions about the Bible, as long as they accept the right of others to have different opinions.

That will never happen because that leaves room for doubt. Belief in the Bible only works when it is accepted as the complete and only truth. If one was to agree to let you believe differently, one would be accepting that there is a chance you may be right.

 

[itsbob]

Yep. People wrote the words guided by the Holy Spirit.

I know we won't agree; I believe and you don't. Let's leave it there.

And Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon guided by the spirit, why don't you believe in it??

 

[Midnightrider]

That will never happen because that leaves room for doubt. Belief in the Bible only works when it is accepted as the complete and only truth. If one was to agree to let you believe differently, one would be accepting that there is a chance you may be right.

thats just not true, i know plenty of good christians that believe the bible is a great teaching tool, but not the actual word of god. Only the literalists believe that every word in the bible was 'written' by god. Lots of christians have varied beliefs on the subject.

 

[Tonio]

That will never happen because that leaves room for doubt. Belief in the Bible only works when it is accepted as the complete and only truth. If one was to agree to let you believe differently, one would be accepting that there is a chance you may be right.

I see no reason to change my religious beliefs just so other people will have no room for doubt. I wouldn't expect or ask them to do the same for me. Each of us has about as much control over others' religious beliefs as we have over the tides.

 

[MMDad]

And Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon guided by the spirit, why don't you believe in it??

I don't believe it because i have read it, but it would be interesting to hear why those who have not read or studied it dismiss it as false when they believe the same story for their own text.

 

[kwillia]

I see no reason to change my religious beliefs just so other people will have no room for doubt. I wouldn't expect or ask them to do the same for me. Each of us has about as much control over others' religious beliefs as we have over the tides.

You missed my point... you said "I would propose treating the claim as a matter of opinion." You see that as a reasonable approach because you are accepting that there is no sure answer. Those that take the word of the Bible at face value as the word of God can't acknowledge it as being just their opinion. It goes against the word of the Bible to do so.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I see no reason to change my religious beliefs just so other people will have no room for doubt. I wouldn't expect or ask them to do the same for me. Each of us has about as much control over others' religious beliefs as we have over the tides.

But you do ask other to change their belief.

You say to Christians don't witness when their very faith tells them to witness.

 

[2ndAmendment]

And Joseph Smith wrote the book of Mormon guided by the spirit, why don't you believe in it??

I read portions of it. I even considered becoming a Mormon at one time. Studied a bit more and saw conflicts with the Bible and decide Mormonism was not for me.

 

[Tonio]

Those that take the word of the Bible at face value as the word of God can't acknowledge it as being just their opinion. It goes against the word of the Bible to do so.

Thanks for the clarification. My point is that such an attitude leaves no room for the idea of spirituality being an individual thing. A person's religious beliefs are a vital part of the person's identity and the person's perception of his or her place in the universe. Take away that and you take away the person's identity.

 

[Tonio]

But you do ask other to change their belief.

You say to Christians don't witness when their very faith tells them to witness.

Please look at it from my perspective - I feel like I'm being perpetually being badgered by people trying to get me to change my beliefs. And when they say they've been ordered by God to badger me, I feel incredibly helpless, like they'll never stop no matter what I do, even if hid for the rest of my life in a cave or on a desert island. I know I'm exaggerating, but I just want to be left alone.

 

[ItalianScallion]

Please look at it from my perspective - I feel like I'm being perpetually being badgered by people trying to get me to change my beliefs. And when they say they've been ordered by God to badger me, I feel incredibly helpless, like they'll never stop no matter what I do, even if hid for the rest of my life in a cave or on a desert island. I know I'm exaggerating, but I just want to be left alone.

I can see your point here, but don't confuse badgering with caring. I never had people tell me about being saved when I was doing immoral things. If they had I might have gotten angry, depending on how they approached me. As I look back, I'm glad that one man approached me about salvation with care & concern FOR ME and not for anything he might gain for himself. Now about the Bible, if we don't have a book of absolute truth, we can't make ANY statements of fact at all. Without the Bible we can't say that anything is a fact unless it is in our hands or in our sight. People believe more in George Washington, Joseph Smith, etc., that they do God and yet we've seen none of them! The "other bibles" are internally flawed & inconsistent even WITHOUT the real Bible saying anything about them. In the book of mormon, the cities were never found nor were the artifacts mentioned and much more. This is why I believe the Bible over any other document. This is why Jesus never tolerated other beliefs, but spoke out against them with great authority. This is not a scare tactic but a word to the wise.

 

[Tonio]

I can see your point here, but don't confuse badgering with caring.

Obviously I understand that your intentions are good. However, the caring relates to a negative definition of people with different beliefs. My personal boundaries are more important than anything that other people want from me or believe about me. I have the right to refuse to be defined by what other people say about me or think about me. I feel threatened when anyone has an agenda for me, no matter what the agenda might be. I shouldn't have to conduct my private life according to what other people want or believe.

 

[Toxick]

but I just want to be left alone.

Then why do you read and post in the Religion forums where the topic of Religion is invariably going to come up, and Christians are going to undoubtedly argue from the Christian standpoint.

What do you expect when you read these threads, exactly?



Now, I realize that there are other religions than Christianity, and I have absolutely no problem with them coming into the religion forum and gleefully cheering their own Gods, or exchanging wiccan spells, or praising Allah or quoting Confusius - or whatever.



Having said that: I don't see why Religion has to be Shiny-Happy-People Forum where we can all agree that your religion is perfectly valid for you and my religion is perfectly valid for me and we can all pick up a guitar and sing Kumbaya. If someone's not a christian - I am going to think they're WRONG. Sorry - but If I believed otherwise I would not be a christian. I wouldn't be so vulgar as to join a thread full of Wiccans who are discussing the upcoming solstice, and start spouting off about Jesus. However, if you - or anyone else - starts a Christian thread, or joins one already in progress, how can you expect ANYTHING OTHER THAN Christians defending their beliefs.

Discussing religion, arguing about religion, promoting religion: That's what this forum is for... That's its entire raison d'être. It is the sole reason its here.



Simply stated: your above complaint is akin to standing in the path of a hurricane and compaining about the wind.


If you just want to be left alone, then beat it. I promise that I won't hunt you down and preach to you.

 

[Tonio]

But you do ask other to change their belief.

I'm asking others to respect my personal boundaries. I have the right to object when someone has a religious belief about me. My own religous beliefs are about how I perceive my role in the universe and my own purpose for life - I don't attempt to define these for anyone else, and no one has any business attempting to define these for me.

Then why do you read and post in the Religion forums where the topic of Religion is invariably going to come up, and Christians are going to undoubtedly argue from the Christian standpoint.

Because dammit, I feel vulnerable when people claim to know what their deity or deities wants for me, like those people have power over me. Also, I'm trying to understand why anyone has to include other people in their religious beliefs in the first place, instead of working out their own place in the universe and their own purpose for life.

 

[willie]

This is not a scare tactic but a word to the wise.

A word to the wise? Not a scare tactic? Tolerance is not your strong point.

 

[Tonio]

If someone's not a christian - I am going to think they're WRONG. Sorry - but If I believed otherwise I would not be a christian. I wouldn't be so vulgar as to join a thread full of Wiccans who are discussing the upcoming solstice, and start spouting off about Jesus. However, if you - or anyone else - starts a Christian thread, or joins one already in progress, how can you expect ANYTHING OTHER THAN Christians defending their beliefs.

Valid point about defending beliefs. Surely people can defend their beliefs without defining other people in negative ways. As an example, why couldn't the individual Christian believe in heaven and hell only for himself, and treat the afterlife for everyone else as an unknown?

As I said before, claims about the supernatural can't be tested like natural phenomena, so all such claims are merely opinions. How can one claim be right and the others be wrong, when none of them can be verified? Why should one person's opinion about deity matter to another person, as long as neither one tries to use that opinion to define the other?

For what it's worth, I have a similar emotional reaction whenever women (and some men) claim that all men are pigs or that all men are obsessed by sex. My reaction is, "Look, dammit, you don't know anything about me, you don't know what is in my head, so what business do you have making generalizations about me? What do I have to do to be thought of as an individual?"

 

[vraiblonde]

What do I have to do to be thought of as an individual?"

I'm a PERSON, dammit, and I demand respect!

 

[wxtornado]

I can see your point here, but don't confuse badgering with caring. I never had people tell me about being saved when I was doing immoral things. If they had I might have gotten angry, depending on how they approached me. As I look back, I'm glad that one man approached me about salvation with care & concern FOR ME and not for anything he might gain for himself.

What about the guy who lives in a cave all his life - never heard of Jesus or God. Has no concept whatsoever. Is he going to heaven?

 

[Tonio]

I'm a PERSON, dammit, and I demand respect!

I appreciate your point - each of us judges others by their actions, and we can expect others to judge us by our actions. We have to earn others' respect through our actions. The operative word is actions. It's wrong to deny peple respect simply because of their gender or skin color or religious belief, to make assumptions and generalizations about people without evaluating their actions. That doesn't give people a chance to earn respect. It would be wrong of me to make assumptions about 2A's actions or ItalianScallion's actions based solely on them being Christians, and I hope I haven't done so unintentionally. It would be wrong of me to make assumptions about your behavior based solely on you being a woman, and I hope I haven't done that by mistake either.