Black National Anthem

[This_person]

UNCF was founded in the '40s. At the time, any other college fund in the country would have been a corresponding whites-only counterpart.

As for the Urban League, CBC, etc...well, can I ask why whites in the US would need (or need at any time in history) an organization devoted specifically to whites in those fields? Jews in government, sure. Irish in government. Catholics. Germans. Eastern Europeans. (Insert European ethnic group here that was at some point or another the target of discrimination or an underrepresented demographic in government or big business.) But I mean...having a White Congressional Caucus is like...a club of brunettes with one blonde member forming a brunette caucus. (I fail at analogies, don't judge me. :cry

I agree with you that some groups like these are no longer needed now as a lot of the issues they were created to combat are no longer a super large problem. But uh...at the time that most of these groups were formed, everything besides them was a corresponding white counterpart.

So, inequality was appropriate to gain equality?

Or, is it just crap?

 

[tiny_dancer33]

So, inequality was appropriate to gain equality?

Or, is it just crap?

Uh...I fail to see how it was inequality in the 1940s, when blacks could not qualify for any existing scholarship funds or similar awards, and couldn't even attend colleges besides black ones, to create a college fund that they could benefit from.

:shrug:

 

[donbarzini]

UNCF was founded in the '40s. At the time, any other college fund in the country would have been a corresponding whites-only counterpart.

As for the Urban League, CBC, etc...well, can I ask why whites in the US would need (or need at any time in history) an organization devoted specifically to whites in those fields? Jews in government, sure. Irish in government. Catholics. Germans. Eastern Europeans. (Insert European ethnic group here that was at some point or another the target of discrimination or an underrepresented demographic in government or big business.) But I mean...having a White Congressional Caucus is like...a club of brunettes with one blonde member forming a brunette caucus. (I fail at analogies, don't judge me. )

I agree with you that some groups like these are no longer needed now as a lot of the issues they were created to combat are no longer a super large problem. But uh...at the time that most of these groups were formed, everything besides them was a corresponding white counterpart. :shrug:

Can I avail myself of any services any of these organizations offer? Nope.

So they are the very things that they purport to rail against. Separatist organizations designed to benefit one class of people. What their purpose was when they were founded is inconsequential.

 

[tiny_dancer33]

Can I avail myself of any services any of these organizations offer? Nope.

I'm assuming you're of European descent right? Actually, you can. A couple friends of mine, also white Americans, received scholarships (one for a college, another for an internship) after submitting essays on the topic of blacks and women in the physical sciences (well, one of them was, I didn't read the second essay personally) to different black scholarship funds (the winning one was a minorities in sciences group). You can...there's just not much point in it, I suppose, if the issues don't really affect you. Same reason I never applied for any scholarships about working in the medical field - because I don't work in medicine. But I could have if I wanted to. :shrug:

 

[tiny_dancer33]

What their purpose was when they were founded is inconsequential.

(Sorry, I missed this before posting again.) You asked for white counterparts. I said the idea was that when they were made everything else was a white counterpart. I fail to see how that's inconsequential. Similar groups have changed their missions over the years, of course. For example, from "let's get black Americans into big business" to "let's provide a support network for black Americans in big business, as they are still underrepresented in that field."

I mean, someone could certainly start a white Americans senatorial caucus, for example...but what would they have to do? "Yeah, the Senate...we're the majority in it. Yay for us." :shrug: I mean, would you say that groups like the Midwestern congressional caucus are separatist as well?

 

[This_person]

Uh...I fail to see how it was inequality in the 1940s, when blacks could not qualify for any existing scholarship funds or similar awards, and couldn't even attend colleges besides black ones, to create a college fund that they could benefit from.

:shrug:

Were historically black colleges inferior? Lincoln and Howard were good enough to get a Supreme Court Justice!

And, the 40's have been over for a long, long, long time now. Would you agree and work towards abolishing such things as the UNCF, BET, CBC, NAACP, etc? Would you agree these are racist institutions that do NOTHING but make divisions among the races?

 

[donbarzini]

(Sorry, I missed this before posting again.) You asked for white counterparts. I said the idea was that when they were made everything else was a white counterpart. I fail to see how that's inconsequential. Similar groups have changed their missions over the years, of course. For example, from "let's get black Americans into big business" to "let's provide a support network for black Americans in big business, as they are still underrepresented in that field." That's all.

It is inconsequential because while their purpose may have been one of "forced inclusion" when they were created; that is their purpose no longer.
Is it?

 

[tiny_dancer33]

Were historically black colleges inferior? Lincoln and Howard were good enough to get a Supreme Court Justice!

And, the 40's have been over for a long, long, long time now. Would you agree and work towards abolishing such things as the UNCF, BET, CBC, NAACP, etc? Would you agree these are racist institutions that do NOTHING but make divisions among the races?

Of course they weren't inferior. Therefore, doesn't it make sense for that time period, that if there's these colleges that black Americans could attend at the time, they should have a scholarship fund that they could actually have access to as well?

And judging from the other posts in this thread, I think it's safe to say that you and others would agree that the black race could still use some "advancement" (re: NAACP).

I'll repeat what I said above, would you say that the northeast or midwestern caucuses are separatist? Because I wouldn't. I'd say that they're a circle for senators/reps who have something in common - that they're from the midwest/etc.

 

[Baja28]

UNCF was founded in the '40s. At the time, any other college fund in the country would have been a corresponding whites-only counterpart.

As for the Urban League, CBC, etc...well, can I ask why whites in the US would need (or need at any time in history) an organization devoted specifically to whites in those fields? Jews in government, sure. Irish in government. Catholics. Germans. Eastern Europeans. (Insert European ethnic group here that was at some point or another the target of discrimination or an underrepresented demographic in government or big business.) But I mean...having a White Congressional Caucus is like...a club of brunettes with one blonde member forming a brunette caucus. (I fail at analogies, don't judge me. )

I agree with you that some groups like these are no longer needed now as a lot of the issues they were created to combat are no longer a super large problem. But uh...at the time that most of these groups were formed, everything besides them was a corresponding white counterpart. :shrug:

Uh...I fail to see how it was inequality in the 1940s, when blacks could not qualify for any existing scholarship funds or similar awards, and couldn't even attend colleges besides black ones, to create a college fund that they could benefit from.

:shrug:

I'm assuming you're of European descent right? Actually, you can. A couple friends of mine, also white Americans, received scholarships (one for a college, another for an internship) after submitting essays on the topic of blacks and women in the physical sciences (well, one of them was, I didn't read the second essay personally) to different black scholarship funds (the winning one was a minorities in sciences group). You can...there's just not much point in it, I suppose, if the issues don't really affect you. Same reason I never applied for any scholarships about working in the medical field - because I don't work in medicine. But I could have if I wanted to. :shrug:

(Sorry, I missed this before posting again.) You asked for white counterparts. I said the idea was that when they were made everything else was a white counterpart. I fail to see how that's inconsequential. Similar groups have changed their missions over the years, of course. For example, from "let's get black Americans into big business" to "let's provide a support network for black Americans in big business, as they are still underrepresented in that field."

I mean, someone could certainly start a white Americans senatorial caucus, for example...but what would they have to do? "Yeah, the Senate...we're the majority in it. Yay for us." :shrug: I mean, would you say that groups like the Midwestern congressional caucus are separatist as well?

You've posted here in an intelligent manner and I respect you for that.



I don't mean to speak for everyone but I believe what we're all saying is those organizations had a time and place and now the time has come to do away with (insert race here)only groups and organizations and work as one.

The only way this will happen is if enough blacks rally together and denounce Al, Jesse, Louis et al every time they open their mouths. Bill Cosby has tried and look at the ridicule that got him from the black community.

I'm glad you agree this woman lost her mind by doing what she did.



P.S. I didn't mean to offend you with my anthem but I am sick of what she did and how she did it so I retaliated in my own humorous way.

 

[donbarzini]

Of course they weren't inferior. Therefore, doesn't it make sense for that time period, that if there's these colleges that black Americans could attend at the time, they should have a scholarship fund that they could actually have access to as well?

And judging from the other posts in this thread, I think it's safe to say that you and others would agree that the black race could still use some "advancement" (re: NAACP).

I'll repeat what I said above, would you say that the northeast or midwestern caucuses are separatist? Because I wouldn't. I'd say that they're a circle for senators/reps who have something in common - that they're from the midwest/etc.

No the caucuses from the NE or Midwest aren't separatist, because THEY don't discriminate based on the color of one's skin. And how much more "advancement" does the black race need? It was a black man who came from the proverbial "nowhere" to defeat the Democratic Party's
anointed one. And the Republicans were making legitimate noise about both Powell and Rice as "Presidential Timber".

 

[This_person]

Of course they weren't inferior. Therefore, doesn't it make sense for that time period, that if there's these colleges that black Americans could attend at the time, they should have a scholarship fund that they could actually have access to as well?

Actually, no. It would have made sense to argue (in court if necessary) that any scholarships that required a particular race of the recipient was discriminatory, as we are with this line of discussion.

And judging from the other posts in this thread, I think it's safe to say that you and others would agree that the black race could still use some "advancement" (re: NAACP).

Again, no. Anything that puts one race above another is inherently racist and discriminatory. An affirmative action program affirms the notion that the protected race/class of people are inferior and need a handicap to compete on an even footing - thereby proving they cannot compete on an even footing. This is inherently racist AGAINST the race it purports to protect, and discriminatory against all other races.

I'll repeat what I said above, would you say that the northeast or midwestern caucuses are separatist? Because I wouldn't. I'd say that they're a circle for senators/reps who have something in common - that they're from the midwest/etc.

They are separatist - for a common cause. Nevada probably doesn't care about Mississippi River issues, and Wisconsin probably doesn't care about Rocky Mountain issues.

By separating races in this same way, it implies a black person justifiably has different issues than a white person, or a hispanic person, etc. This creates a racial divide where none should exist. It is very different.

 

[tiny_dancer33]

You've posted here in an intelligent manner and I respect you for that.



I don't mean to speak for everyone but I believe what we're all saying is those organizations had a time and place and now the time has come to do away with (insert race here)only groups and organizations and work as one.

The only way this will happen is if enough blacks rally together and denounce Al, Jesse, Louis et al everytime they open their mouths. Bill Cosby has tried and look at the ridicule that got him from the black community.

I'm glad you agree this woman lost her mind by doing what she did.

I do agree with you. I think it's time to for all of those groups not to be done away with, but to merge. Things like UNCF would simply blend in with other longstanding prestigious scholarship organizations and that would mean more college money for all (which is always a good thing).

The thing I really don't like about Jackson and Sharpton is that non-blacks seem to assume that they're the mouthpieces of black Americans. Which I'm sure is something they both dream about every night, but it's simply not true. As I said in a post a couple pages ago, blacks don't have a big town meeting and decide what all our positions are as a whole, just likes whites don't. It's the same exact thing. Assuming Jackson and Sharpton speak for black sentiments is like assuming...well I don't even have a comparative figure for whites. And as for Farrakhan (I'm assuming that's who you mean by Louis?) he speaks for only himself, as far as I'm concerned. People like them have made a lifeblood out of the racial divide, and that's why I know that none of them really support Obama, because he represents a real closing of the gap, you know what I mean? In a "we've come this far" kind of way. When the gap closes, what will they have to jaw on about? And that's why I don't really like them.

Ooh sorry that was off-topic.

 

[vegmom]

What I think we're missing here is the song she chose to sing was "Lift Every Voice and Sing" not the "Black National Anthem". That's just the song's nickname. I didn't find anything racist or inflamatory about it. Nice little hymn actually.

But....

Does that mean I approve of what she did? Not by a longshot.

When you are asked to sing the National Anthem at a government function you should assume they mean "The Star Spangled Banner". This is not the time to change the program, all jazz and bluesy inflections aside.

Would you walk out to a microphone in the middle of a ballfield, crowd standing, and start warbaling "Danny Boy" and not expect to get booed?

Do TV stations play "Video Killed The Radio Star" when they sign off at night?

When our Olympians are up on the podiums later this summer recieving their gold medals, will the Chinese musicians grace them with a rendition of "Pinball Wizard"?

I'm all for artistic freedom, but there are times it's best to stick with the script.

 

[tiny_dancer33]

When you are asked to sing the National Anthem at a government function you should assume they mean "The Star Spangled Banner". This is not the time to change the program, all jazz and bluesy inflections aside.

Would you walk out to a microphone in the middle of a ballfield, crowd standing, and start warbaling "Danny Boy" and not expect to get booed?

Do TV stations play "Video Killed The Radio Star" when they sign off at night?

When our Olympians are up on the podiums later this summer recieving their gold medals, will the Chinese musicians grace them with a rendition of "Pinball Wizard"?

I'm all for artistic freedom, but there are times it's best to stick with the script.

THANK YOU. That's the part of this I don't like, that as a hired performer she messed up the program. As a musician I could never see doing that.

(But I would really like it if TV stations did play "Video Killed the Radio Star." )

 

[tiny_dancer33]

It was a black man who came from the proverbial "nowhere" to defeat the Democratic Party's
anointed one. And the Republicans were making legitimate noise about both Powell and Rice as "Presidential Timber".

Yes...yet almost all of the criticism coming at Obama is based on his race, connections on the topic of race, etc. Racism will be over when that kind of thing doesn't even have to be acknowledged in smear campaigns. Presidential timber, certainly, but both Powell and Rice (whom I respect very much for their achievements) have both been adamant in denying presidential aims.

 

[donbarzini]

Yes...yet almost all of the criticism coming at Obama is based on his race, connections on the topic of race, etc. Racism will be over when that kind of thing doesn't even have to be acknowledged in smear campaigns. Presidential timber, certainly, but both Powell and Rice (whom I respect very much for their achievements) have both been adamant in denying presidential aims.

I think that's your first true mis-step in this debate. I think most of the criticism is not based on his race, but on his very Muslim-sounding name. And even if you are correct, you know that the shoe is on the other foot as well; in that how many blacks are voting for him because he's not white.

 

[This_person]

Yes...yet almost all of the criticism coming at Obama is based on his race, connections on the topic of race, etc. Racism will be over when that kind of thing doesn't even have to be acknowledged in smear campaigns. Presidential timber, certainly, but both Powell and Rice (whom I respect very much for their achievements) have both been adamant in denying presidential aims.

Sort of race. Not his race, but his lack of acknowledgement of his full heritage, his associations with racist people, his racist views that are assumed from that......

Voting for Obama based on his claim of being black (in which he's half right) is much like voting for someone like David Duke because of his views on whites. A bi-racial racist is just as wrong as a black one, a white one, a hispanic one.....

 

[tiny_dancer33]

I think that's your first true mis-step in this debate. I think most of the criticism is not based on his race, but on his very Muslim-sounding name.

...Isn't that racist just as well, though? Or xenophobic, rather. Connotations of a name and skin color. Both reasons are just as dumb.

Voting for Obama based on his claim of being black (in which he's half right) is much like voting for someone like David Duke because of his views on whites.

And at the same time, not voting for someone based on their race is just as bad. I do however agree with your other answer about the fact that it's more the associations he's made, and that those happen to be racial. Still, though, in a perfect racism-free world, those wouldn't even have come up. Black and white racism.

(Btw, I'm biracial and I usually refer to myself as black. Halle Berry also refers to herself as black. I don't think it's that strange that he's referred to as black even though he's only Halfrican. It's just easier to explain that way for us mulattoes. If I walked up to someone with my puffy hair and said "I'm Irish and Scottish!" they'd probably laugh in my face. Even though I am.)

 

[Baja28]

I'm not voting for Barack for the following reasons:

He's for everything I'm against
He's a tax and spend democrat.
He's a liar
He hates America.
He attended an American hating church for 20 years.


Please note his skin color was not mentioned.

Gimmee Keys, Rice or Powell and they'll have my vote.

 

[Baja28]

..(Btw, I'm biracial and I usually refer to myself as black. Halle Berry also refers to herself as black. I don't think it's that strange that he's referred to as black even though he's only Halfrican. It's just easier to explain that way for us mulattoes. If I walked up to someone with my puffy hair and said "I'm Irish and Scottish!" they'd probably laugh in my face. Even though I am.)

How you doin?

Are you chubby?
Are you single?
What kind of bike do you ride?