Bush overtime plan: A slap in the in the face to Americans Veterans

[Bruzilla]

I may be wrong... but what I think this proposal does is makes military training/experience equal to a degree, which can make it easier for employers to justify making employees "exempt." Exempt employees are paid a yearly salary, and no overtime; while non-exempt employees get paid hourly and can get overtime. Exempt status is usually reserved for people deemed to be in a professional status, meaning they have a degree or equivalent experience.

For example, I have no college time, but I have 16 years of experience with Navy aircraft and training systems, so I am considered a professional and have worked only exempt positions since leaving the Navy in 1989. Each company's policy for exempt and non-exempt determinations can be different, and I would guess this new law would help to standardize them.

On the upside, most exempt positions pay a lot more than non-exempt since there's no overtime, so these people might be harping about getting paid a lot more money for doing less work. And most states have rules concerning benefits for exempt and non-exempt employees... and exempt employees get better benefits.

 

[Sparx]

Overtime Pay Under Attack

Lower pay, longer hours and unpredictable work schedules are some of the changes working families could face under proposed changes to overtime and compensatory time rules.

Promoted by the Bush administration as “family-friendly” measures, changes to the Fair Labor Standards Act proposed by President George W. Bush, along with five Big Business-backed bills now in Congress, would take away working people’s hard-fought 40-hour workweek and overtime pay—with no meaningful increased flexibility to help workers balance demands of jobs and family.

The Bush administration has proposed to loosen the rules that determine the types of employees not entitled to overtime pay after 40 hours of work.

Under the Bush proposal, workers, including police officers, nurses, store supervisors and many other workers, would face unpredictable work schedules and reduced pay because of an increased demand for extra hours for which employers would not have to compensate workers, according to an Economic Policy Institute report.

The Bush proposal also could take away overtime pay protections for America's military veterans. The administration has indicated it wants to issue final regulations by March 2004.

On Sept. 10, the Senate approved an amendment to the fiscal year 2004 Labor, Health and Human Services and Education appropriations bill (H.R. 2660) to ban the U.S. Department of Labor from implementing the Bush-backed proposal to gut overtime protections guaranteed under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The House-passed version of the bill does not include a similar amendment to block the overtime rule changes. On Oct. 2, the U.S. House approved a "motion to instruct" House members of the conference committee merging the Senate and House version of H.R. 2660 to go along with the provision in the Senate bill that guarantees workers against the loss of their overtime protection. Bush has threatened to veto the bill if it includes the overtime amendment.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Yeesh, Pete - taking your sig line a little seriously, aren't you?

So what does this mean? Spell it out in plain English. It's my understanding that the Bush proposal wants to take away federally mandated overtime pay for people who make over $65,000 per year. It's also my understanding that companies can still pay overtime to these people if they want to - they just aren't REQUIRED to under federal law.

If this isn't right, give me an education, please.

Fair Labor Standards Act was passed in 1938 to regulate employment practises mainly in factories due to the rapid industrialization that was taking place to protect your hourly/unskilled laborors. Employers were hiring workers in the depression era and forcing them to work 80-90 hours a week for dirt wages. Don't like it? Fine starve because there is a line of starving people outside the gate who will.

The protection for unskilled/hourly emplyees is evident in that the crafters of the legislation made 2 catagories of employees, those exempt for OT and minimum wage requirements and those who were non-exempt from the rules of OT/minimum wage. Exempt workers include, Executives, administrative, professionals salesmen, farm workers and waitresses/waitors. Basically everyone is exempt except hourly workers. Well back in 1938 there were very few "professional" jobs except for Doctors, lawyers and such, so since the wording and criteria of what qualifies as an "Exempt" employee remained at 1938 definition many "highly skilled" hourly employees were getting OT despite their skill and wage levels, because they were paid "hourly" and not salary. Except for computer workers the criteria for non-exempt workers has remained unchanged since 1938.

Well now along comes the Bush administration. What they are doing is trying to update the definitions of "exempt" and "non-exempt" employees to more correctly reflect the workforce in this century, and not the arcaic (sp) standards outlined in 1938. In doing so there are a bunch of greedy bastards who are hourly, but are highly paid and highly skilled, not the unskilled hourly wage earners that is in the spirit and indent of the original Act. There wieners are making $30-$60 an hour and are wanking because under the new rules they are deemed "professional" and thus are not qualified for non-exempt status. The wiener in the story falls into the catagory of "professional" because he gained training in the military that was the equivalent to a 4 year technical degree, even though he did not formally go to college.

Now the Democrats are playing the poor victim card on an "estimated" 8 million workers who are in every aspect "professionals" but have been mooching OT based on a 66 year old definition of an hourly worker. Most of these 8 million make more money that the tard who posted this lie filled propaganda laden, FEAR THE NASTY REPUBLICANS hate article. What a tool.

 

[Ehesef]

Originally posted by Sparx
Overtime Pay Under Attack

Lower pay, longer hours and unpredictable work schedules are some of the changes working families could face under proposed changes to overtime and compensatory time rules.

Promoted by the Bush administration as “family-friendly” measures, changes to the Fair Labor Standards Act proposed by President George W. Bush, along with five Big Business-backed bills now in Congress, would take away working people’s hard-fought 40-hour workweek and overtime pay—with no meaningful increased flexibility to help workers balance demands of jobs and family.

The Bush administration has proposed to loosen the rules that determine the types of employees not entitled to overtime pay after 40 hours of work.

Under the Bush proposal, workers, including police officers, nurses, store supervisors and many other workers, would face unpredictable work schedules and reduced pay because of an increased demand for extra hours for which employers would not have to compensate workers, according to an Economic Policy Institute report.

The Bush proposal also could take away overtime pay protections for America's military veterans. The administration has indicated it wants to issue final regulations by March 2004.

On Sept. 10, the Senate approved an amendment to the fiscal year 2004 Labor, Health and Human Services and Education appropriations bill (H.R. 2660) to ban the U.S. Department of Labor from implementing the Bush-backed proposal to gut overtime protections guaranteed under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The House-passed version of the bill does not include a similar amendment to block the overtime rule changes. On Oct. 2, the U.S. House approved a "motion to instruct" House members of the conference committee merging the Senate and House version of H.R. 2660 to go along with the provision in the Senate bill that guarantees workers against the loss of their overtime protection. Bush has threatened to veto the bill if it includes the overtime amendment.

Again, I'd like a source for this article...

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Sparx
Overtime Pay Under Attack

Lower pay, longer hours and unpredictable work schedules are some of the changes working families could face under proposed changes to overtime and compensatory time rules.

Promoted by the Bush administration as “family-friendly” measures, changes to the Fair Labor Standards Act proposed by President George W. Bush, along with five Big Business-backed bills now in Congress, would take away working people’s hard-fought 40-hour workweek and overtime pay—with no meaningful increased flexibility to help workers balance demands of jobs and family.

The Bush administration has proposed to loosen the rules that determine the types of employees not entitled to overtime pay after 40 hours of work.

Under the Bush proposal, workers, including police officers, nurses, store supervisors and many other workers, would face unpredictable work schedules and reduced pay because of an increased demand for extra hours for which employers would not have to compensate workers, according to an Economic Policy Institute report.

The Bush proposal also could take away overtime pay protections for America's military veterans. The administration has indicated it wants to issue final regulations by March 2004.

On Sept. 10, the Senate approved an amendment to the fiscal year 2004 Labor, Health and Human Services and Education appropriations bill (H.R. 2660) to ban the U.S. Department of Labor from implementing the Bush-backed proposal to gut overtime protections guaranteed under the Fair Labor Standards Act. The House-passed version of the bill does not include a similar amendment to block the overtime rule changes. On Oct. 2, the U.S. House approved a "motion to instruct" House members of the conference committee merging the Senate and House version of H.R. 2660 to go along with the provision in the Senate bill that guarantees workers against the loss of their overtime protection. Bush has threatened to veto the bill if it includes the overtime amendment.

Did you ever think that if so many people are getting overtime that if they stopped paying OT and hired some of the unemployed your party is always wanking about to work those hours instead more people would have jobs?

Or do you advocate just overpaying those who are getting it now and let the rest suffer. Party of the common man my ass.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Sparx
Overtime Pay Under Attack

Under the Bush proposal, workers, including police officers (professional) , nurses (professional) , store supervisors(supervisory) and many other workers, would face unpredictable work schedules

(How so? Just because they say so, I am exempt and my work hours are very predictable) and reduced pay (LIE;just because they do not get overtime does not mean that they will lose money, they will still get paid for the 40 hours they work) because of an increased demand for extra hours for which employers would not have to compensate workers, according to an Economic Policy Institute report.

The Bush proposal also could take away overtime pay protections for America's military veterans. (LIE; Veterans go NO special status that guarantees overtime, they are workers just like Joe Blow in Oklahoma who never served.) The administration has indicated it wants to issue final regulations by March 2004.

[/QUOTE] FEAR MONGER

 

[Ehesef]

Originally posted by *archimedes*
I gave it to you, dingus - AFL/CIO

http://www.aflcio.org/yourjobeconomy/overtimepay/ns01272004.cfm

Dillhole. The second one.

Well I'm not buying it. WTF do you need Overtime pay for if you make over $65,000 a year. Thats triple what I make and I'm doing ok considering my age....

 

[Sparx]

Under the Bush overtime scheme:

Millions of salaried workers making between $22,101 and $65,000 who now are eligible to receive overtime pay could be reclassified as executives or administrative or professional employees—and would no longer qualify for overtime pay.
Relatively low-salary earners who have supervisory responsibilities or management-related responsibilities would be penalized, as would workers with advanced education or specialized training. Some of the jobs affected are police, firefighters, nurses, retail managers, insurance claims adjusters and medical therapists.
Employees not covered by the new rules also could be hurt: By reclassifying many of their workers as exempt from overtime pay, employers most likely would assign overtime only to them and eliminate overtime for other workers. Police and firefighters are among those potentially affected.
Anyone making $65,000 or more a year likely would lose overtime pay, effectively eliminating many middle-income wage earners’ much-needed extra pay.
According to the U.S. Department of Labor’s own estimates, the Bush administration’s proposed rule changes could mean between 2.1 million and 3.3 million workers would face unpredictable work schedules because of an increased demand for extra hours for which employers would not have to pay time-and-a-half.

 

[ememdee19]

Question - isn't this degree equivalence stuff comparable to a CCAF degree??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all military branches give you some kind of equivalent for time in?

 

[Kizzy]

Read it straight out of the Federal Digest.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Sparx
Under the Bush overtime scheme:

Millions of salaried workers making between $22,101 and $65,000 who now are eligible to receive overtime pay could be reclassified as executives or administrative or professional employees—and would no longer qualify for overtime pay.
Relatively low-salary earners who have supervisory responsibilities or management-related responsibilities would be penalized, as would workers with advanced education or specialized training. Some of the jobs affected are police, firefighters, nurses, retail managers, insurance claims adjusters and medical therapists.
Employees not covered by the new rules also could be hurt: By reclassifying many of their workers as exempt from overtime pay, employers most likely would assign overtime only to them and eliminate overtime for other workers. Police and firefighters are among those potentially affected.
Anyone making $65,000 or more a year likely would lose overtime pay, effectively eliminating many middle-income wage earners’ much-needed extra pay.
According to the U.S. Department of Labor’s own estimates, the Bush administration’s proposed rule changes could mean between 2.1 million and 3.3 million workers would face unpredictable work schedules because of an increased demand for extra hours for which employers would not have to pay time-and-a-half.

I really wish you would read the FLSA, many of those people are exempt anyway. If you go read it anyone who spends more than 20% of their time supervising others is considered a Supervisor or Manager and thus are exempt as are fireman and police in small departments.

ALSO, of the 8 million who might lose "non-exempt status" are ACTUALLY getting overitme pay? NOT VERY FREAKING MANY. This is like me saying that EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATLY all men over 99 are not allowed to have sex!! WTF cares none are.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by ememdee19
Question - isn't this degree equivalence stuff comparable to a CCAF degree??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't all military branches give you some kind of equivalent for time in?

No

 

[ememdee19]

Originally posted by Pete
No

So, is it just the USAF that offers this?

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by ememdee19
So, is it just the USAF that offers this?

You might get a DOL breakdown of what you have as far as experience. As far as a degree goes the military in cooperation with some accreditation organizations provide a breakdown of college credit equivalents form your trianing. Some of it is useful but most is not really. What is 1 semester hour of PT and 2 semester hours of organizational management going to get you at a University? Basically it is just "feel good" stuff. Much like the end of year statement they give you that states, despite the $37K you actually got paid this year we actually compensated you about $56K base don 52 visits to the commissary, 52 visits to the Exchange, 20 Dr. appointments ect.

 

[ememdee19]

Originally posted by Pete
You might get a DOL breakdown of what you have as far as experience. As far as a degree goes the military in cooperation with some accreditation organizations provide a breakdown of college credit equivalents form your trianing. Some of it is useful but most is not really. What is 1 semester hour of PT and 2 semester hours of organizational management going to get you at a University?

You silly man! The AF doesn't do PT, whatareyathinking?? j/k

Actually, my husband is an SP and b/c he's had so much training and experience pertaining to his career field, he has almost completed a degree in Criminal Justice.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Pete
Did you ever think that if so many people are getting overtime that if they stopped paying OT and hired some of the unemployed your party is always wanking about to work those hours instead more people would have jobs?

That's a good point. Sparx? Any comments?

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by ememdee19
So, is it just the USAF that offers this?

Em, the AF doesn't give you a CCAF just for time in. There are actually required courses, credits etc.. that must be fulfilled. I didn't pursue my CCAF stupid: ) when I was in, because I figured I had plenty of time and I seperated from the AF before I finished up with all the required classes. It's definitely not a "gimme".

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
That's a good point. Sparx? Any comments?

He is busily scouring the Demogog web sites looking for something he can cut and paste to answer.

 

[ememdee19]

Originally posted by Christy
Em, the AF doesn't give you a CCAF just for time in. There are actually required courses, credits etc.. that must be fulfilled. I didn't pursue my CCAF stupid: ) when I was in, because I figured I had plenty of time and I seperated from the AF before I finished up with all the required classes. It's definitely not a "gimme".

I didn't mean to make it sound like they just give you a degree...woops. I know the hubby has had to take a few general courses, but his experience has helped him a great deal.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by ememdee19
You silly man! The AF doesn't do PT, whatareyathinking?? j/k

Of course we don't. We don't need to, unlike the fatty fatty 2x4's that I worked with from the Army and the Navy.