Bush overtime plan: A slap in the in the face to Americans Veterans

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by dems4me
see SamSpade -- its not just me... here's the latest poll showing Kerry over Bush. I think the Bush vote will be the more apethetic vote this year and everyone will think everyone else is voting for Bush so why bother.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/02/elec04.poll.prez/index.html

Yep, seen it. Saw another one a few days ago that suggested otherwise. It said Bush would win 49-42 against Kerry.

First, a couple things about polls. It only matters if it is conducted amongst likely voters. People who don't vote - their opinion has no relevance to poll figures.

Secondly - polls differ for different reasons. I don't trust any poll conducted "overnight". That is not scientific. The only one that comes close are ones done on Thursday nights. Statistically people are more likely to be home those nights. Any other night of the week, you're not going to get a statistically accurate representation of the population.

You need ones done over a period of time. Most, are not, and the samples on many are just bad - that's why you can get such a wide shift from day to day.

And lastly - Bush hasn't even STARTED his campaign yet. His numbers will change once he begins. People are fickle. That's why Howard Dean was considered unstoppable - until Kerry started to win. Exit polls in New Hampshire showed that a large portion of the voting population made up their mind on Election Day.

It doesn't surprise me that a poll, taken right after a big win, shows a lean to Kerry. Give it a few months. It will shift back. These kinds of polls depict a shift in sentiment, but rarely show voting trends.

Over longer stretches of time, Bush keeps winning these matchups. He'll do the same in November.

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by SamSpade

And lastly - Bush hasn't even STARTED his campaign yet. His numbers will change once he begins. People are fickle. That's why Howard Dean was considered unstoppable - until Kerry started to win. Exit polls in New Hampshire showed that a large portion of the voting population made up their mind on Election Day.

* * *

Over longer stretches of time, Bush keeps winning these matchups. He'll do the same in November.

Don't tell me you believe in exit polls!! Remember just about all the exit polls had gore winning and all the exit polls in the state of florida alone had him winning that state. Generally exit polls are always accurate - unless your brother is governor.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by dems4me
Don't tell me you believe in exit polls!! Remember just about all the exit polls had gore winning and all the exit polls in the state of florida alone had him winning that state. Generally exit polls are always accurate - unless your brother is governor.

Well THAT doesn't make sense - don't believe exit polls, even though they're generally accurate.

And I don't know WHAT his brother has anything to do with it.

 

[dems4me]

Please -- all the exit polls in florida had Gore projected as the winner of that state -- then all of a sudden, Bush calls up to the press and says not to be sooo fast -- and coincidentally his brother is governor -- I just don't buy it. But that is history and one that is debatable for years to come.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SamSpade
And I don't know WHAT his brother has anything to do with it.

Jeb keeps getting elected so that must mean Floridians like him. Therefore, they'll be more inclined to vote for his brother or whoever else he endorses. So Jeb Bush being Gov of FL probably had something to do with Dubya winning Florida. Or am I engaging in faulty logic?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by dems4me
coincidentally his brother is governor -- I just don't buy it.

And his brother just got re-elected. Think about it - if you were this disenfranchised voter who thought Jeb Bush stole the election for the BEE, would you vote to re-elect him?

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by dems4me
Please -- all the exit polls in florida had Gore projected as the winner of that state -- then all of a sudden, Bush calls up to the press and says not to be sooo fast -- and coincidentally his brother is governor -- I just don't buy it. But that is history and one that is debatable for years to come.

No, it's not "debatable". It's a sore spot for Gore voters. Gore lost. And they need to get over it.

Early polling DID tip it to Gore - and they did this before the polls even CLOSED in the western, more conservative part of the state. It wasn't the only state the networks were wrong on. But the VNS was just plain WRONG and networks have learned their lesson.

And I HATE this about conspiracy types - they can claim something is "suspicious" but never actually point to a smoking gun anywhere. So his brother was governor. So what? Several states tipped for Gore at the last that had Democratic governors. Hmmm. Suspicious to me.

POINT to something. Or give it up. If it's dead voters voting, or as they say in Massaschusetts "Vote Early, Vote Often". But have the intellectual integrity to point to something.

 

[SamSpade]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Jeb keeps getting elected so that must mean Floridians like him. Therefore, they'll be more inclined to vote for his brother or whoever else he endorses. So Jeb Bush being Gov of FL probably had something to do with Dubya winning Florida. Or am I engaging in faulty logic?

No, that would be INTELLIGENT. Faulty reasoning says that a Democratic governor like Bill Richardson "gave" New Mexico to Gore because he's a Democrat. That Gray Davis "gave" California to Gore even though he won there by MILLIONS of votes, because Davis was a Democrat.

But the story is - Bush is EVIL - he's incredibly diabolical and clever - oh, and colossally STUPID at the same time - he and his equally evil, mustache-twirling (even though he has NO mustache) brother *conspired* to change the vote in Florida and escape the notice of every journalist or law enforcement official in the state. Did I mention also, they were stupid? Yes, the stupid Bush brothers managed to pull off disenfranchising one of the largest states in the Nation, and no one is the wiser.

And when people changed the votes on ballots to re-cast them for Gore - the Bush brothers could do nothing, so they got around their cauldron and cast a few spells. Amazingly, they still came out ahead.

I mean, I don't get it. It was a close election. When the dust cleared, one of them won, and it was Bush. Geez, it's been three years already. You lost. You're gonna lose AGAIN. And wait till 2008 when you lose AGAIN. Figure it out. It ain't "conspiracies".

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by dems4me
Please -- all the exit polls in florida had Gore projected as the winner of that state -- then all of a sudden, Bush calls up to the press and says not to be sooo fast -- and coincidentally his brother is governor -- I just don't buy it. But that is history and one that is debatable for years to come.

That is just rich

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by dems4me
In response to you Ken, you can spout off all the legalese you want to justify the war in Iraq but me and the REST of the world (i.e. other countries) do not agree with our invasion. You can gerrymander the language to fit your own agressive intereptation and belief on Iraq but I just don't see the need to continue fighting in Iraq - its not worth the lives that keep getting lost. I suppose us now proposing to go to Mars is so we can find Saddam's WMDs???? They don't and never have existed. it's all about their OIL.

You and the rest of the world? And who gives a rats ass what they think, we are allowed to protect ourselves. I realize the concept might be obscure for some like the French, as they have had to have others fight their battles for over a century now.

And there has been no gerrymandering by me; you are the one trying to divide this by political means, not I. I read where we are allowed to protect ourselves in accordance with International Law and where it is mandated in our Constitution, Bush was just doing his job. No aggressive interpretation here, just reading the words.

How can you say that making our nation safer and liberating a people that have been under the thumb of this tyrant is not a worthy endeavor? I think that the lives being lost are in deed tragic, but I don’t see them being wasted or lost for nothing.

Also Saddam did have WMD, some have been found, but I guess they don’t count because everyone is looking for that single major stockpile that might or might not still exist. After all, they only had about 12 years to hide what they have and have never accurately explained what has happened to those weapons that they were known to possess.

And again, it has never been about oil. Just like Clinton’s impeachment wasn’t about sex. Just because you say it is so doesn’t make it true or have I missed all those tankers coming into our ports with Iraqi crude?

 

[Holywood_CA]

Sparx please tell me exactly what your views are because from what I'm reading here you have Democrats calling you an idiot and Republicans calling you a retard. So which group is right?

 

[Sparx]

Sparx please tell me exactly what your views are because from what I'm reading here you have Democrats calling you an idiot and Republicans calling you a retard. So which group is right?

Neither group is right. I am completely against this policy of overtime take-aways. I work at a salarie job so it doesn't really matter to me personaly. I do however have many freinds and family members who do get overtime and would be screwed by this policy. I am especially irked by the fact that some of these folks could be concidered ineligible for overtime because of training they recieved in the military. This is simply another way for Bush to give a helping hand to those who do not need it to survive.