Bush overtime plan: A slap in the in the face to Americans Veterans

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by dems4me
I just take your rehtoric rants as that of a :loser: as I have yet to see you post anything that I agree with you on.
So Pete's now a loser because you don't agree with him? Interesting.

I am not the only American that feels we were wrong for going after Iraq on WMD issues that was a totally bogus pretense.
So, because there are a few other people out there who don't understand the situation, that gives you credibility? Interesting.

This nation is a nation divided and we are all entitlted to our opinions - that is my God given right.
Difference of opinion isn't your God given right - it's your government given right.

That's tellin' him, Dems.


:popcorn:
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Search the web and find out who appoints a special prosecutor and who authorizes them to do an investigation.

I shall await your return with baited breath.


Please - like Kenny boy had nothing to gain out of the Star report. I'm sure Clinton said -- oh yeah - don't forget to point out altoids and cigar uses.

Its perjury yes, but it was based on something that was NONE of our business - he was just keeping his personal life private. He lied under oath in order to protect himself, his family and our country from being laughed at. It was completely ridiculous and as a result of a Republican dominated congress. He was a supposed independent counsel who abused his position. As a result Indep. Counsel statutes has died as a result.

Nonetheless, I really don't understand how we can have an independent counsel on a shady land deal, but we don't have crap with Haliburton, intelligence cover ups, and flat out lies coming out of the white house 24/7. I don't care if the former president was fooling around with an intern, he wasn't sending hundreds of boys to death for an oil war/takeover for Halliburton.

As for lying to a Grand Jury - it wasn't their business to begin with and it should not have escalated to that degree based on an accusation by Paula Jones's harrassement lawsuit. For real, can I really sue President Bush or something and have it escalate the way things did with Clinton??




to
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Search the web and find out who appoints a special prosecutor and who authorizes them to do an investigation.

I shall await your return with baited breath.

Ok Vrai -- here is why I believe Kenn Star was biased... this may take a while for you to read through but I await in baited breath your take on this analaysis


House Rules Chairman Gerald Solomon (R-N.Y.) (a Republican) drafted a resolution that established the rules for handling independent counsel Kenneth Starr's investigation. Another Republican Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) allowed Solomon, not the Judiciary Committee, to set the rules for the investigation. Smell anything fishy??

He was not acting as an independent counsel but one of the Right Wing ¡V whose philosopy was don¡¦t mind the log in my eye as I¡¦m judging the specks in yours.

Kenneth Starr conducted a witch hunt on Clinton while hiding skeleton¡¦s in his own closet. Congress allowed the contravention of the statute to go on, in order to pursue their own political plans.

Here are some more facts that leads one to believe ¡V Mr. Starr himself was indeed going after Clinton and a republican ¡V for pete sake his firm and he at one time represented the Republican National Convention ¡V here is some more facts --

1. If Mr. Bush had remained president, Mr. Starr would have retained an important Washington position (Solicitor General); reportedly, Mr. Starr was to be recommended for a Supreme Court appointment.
2. Mr. Starr is a tobacco company lawyer [Phillip Morris and Brown & Williamson], and what better way to blunt the thrust of an anti-tobacco president than this? (and yes, I am a smoker.
3. Mr. Starr, almost immediately after being appointed Special Prosecutor indulged himself in what most people would see as a little conflict-of-interest. His Kirkland & Ellis law firm, from which he did not severe ties, was being sued by the RTC (Resolution Trust Corporation) for its connection to a failed bank.
„h The president of the thrift, who was later convicted of multiple fraud charges, arranged for nearly a million dollars listed on the thrift's ledger as deferred income tax payments to be pocketed instead by certain directors and stockholders.
„h Mr. Starr's firm knew the money wasn't going for income taxes, and the RTC said the lawyers had fiduciary liability and ought to make up the loss to the American taxpayers.
As one of his first acts after being appointed, Starr started using his unparalleled powers as a special prosecutor to begin investigating the activities of the same RTC officials who were involved in the decision to sue his law firm.
„h The RTC officials were looking into the conduct of Jean Lewis, the aggressive Republican bookkeeper at the RTC who was pressing for charges to be filed against the Arkansas Democrats before the 1992 election and sending tips to reporters and Republicans in congress. Starr opened a grand jury investigation of the RTC officials who were reviewing Lewis' conduct. Oops. Isn't it a coincidence that they just happened to be the people suing Starr's firm.
Starr's law firm settled out of court in January of 1996 for $325,000.00 -- $700,000.00 less than the RTC had predicted it could have gotten in a trial. Starr said that he did not know about the case -- which the RTC had filed in May of 1993 -- until October 1995, even though he served on the firm's management committee (as someone else said: "Yeah, his secretary forgot to tell him that there was a one million dollar lawsuit against his company."). This from the same man that threatened imprisonment to people because they could not remember details from a single afternoon twenty years in the past. [Source: The Nation March 18, 1996; New Yorker April 22, 1996, The Arkansas Writers' Project 1997]
4. Mr. Starr represents right-wing groups that bankrolled the virulent attacks on Clinton - one being the Bradley Foundation, which funnels money into anti-Clinton groups like the American Spectator. [Ernest Dumas, The Arkansas Writers' Project; other sources]
5. Mr. Starr represents the Republican National Committee.
6. Mr. Starr contradicted himself on whether he had tried to block a two-year-old investigation and prosection of his star witness against Gov. Jim Guy Tucker (he finally admitted to having done so).
„h Judge David L. Hale was being investigated on numerous charges, ranging from embezzlement through framing one of his employees that was about to come forward with incriminating details. There were many serious charges involved and Judge Hale knew that he was in trouble. Consequently, he arranged to testify for Kenneth Starr's grand jury in exchange for a light sentence. The IC strongarmed the prosecution into dropping its case against Hale. Details can be found in my Other Voices area.
7. It has been found by Judge G. Thomas Eisele that there is at least a prima facie case that Starr had a grave conflict of interest in seeking indictments against President Clinton and the First Lady. Starr at one time had accepted the deanship of a California law school and public policy foundation that owe their existence to the philanthropy of Richard Mellon Scaife, the multimillionaire who funds anti-Clinton organizations. Francis T. Mandanici, a Connecticut public defender suggests that Starr has helped Scaife's enterprises and Clinton's Republican enemies by dragging out the Whitewater investigation for years and that the California jobs were a hidden reward. [Ernest Dumas, September 26, 1997 The Arkansas Writer's Project]
8. Mr. Starr, who claims that he is only pursuing the matter to determine whether there was perjury or evidence of suborning perjury has already been found guilty of both. The courts have determined that Mr. Starr deliberately leaked information about his investigation. He then denied having done so, and apparently instructed his attorneys and investigators to lie about it also. Some examples of the leaks:
„h First Lady Fingerprints found on billing records. However, fingerprints can last up to 20 years, so it is unclear when the First Lady handled these documents [Newsweek, May 5, 1996]
„h GOP Senator on Whitewater Committee used Foster briefcase as prop. On the first day of the Republican Senate Whitewater hearings, Senator Frank Murkowski used the late Vince Foster's briefcase as a prop. The briefcase was obtained from Starr's office.
„h Top Official in Starr's office described odds of First Lady indictment as "at least fifty-fifty." In an April 1996 article, "a top official with the investigation" described the odds in favor of indicting First Lady Hillary Clinton as "at least fifty-fifty". [New Yorker April 22, 1996]
„h And more... (see part 2 of this post)
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Search the web and find out who appoints a special prosecutor and who authorizes them to do an investigation.

I shall await your return with baited breath.

Part two to your question

9. Robert Fiske, the earlier Whitewater investigator had been removed because Republicans claimed that his law firm, from which he had taken a leave of absence, had represented International Paper. When he was appointed Whitewater Independent Counsel, Kenneth Starr represented International Paper. (International Paper had sold land to Whitewater Development Company). [New Yorker April 22, 1996]
10. As shown, Starr has a long and conspicuous devotion to the Republican party, which is important in an investigation which is basically meant to topple a Democratic president. Starr had strongly argued, and the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis had agreed that federal Judge Henry Woods should be disqualified from hearing Whitewater cases because newspapers had published articles about Wood's past Democratic associations (Woods was not allowed the opportunity to defend himself).
„h Judge Woods had been friends with Hillary Rodham Clinton in the past. The court removed Woods as a judge in a criminal case against Gov. Jim Guy Tucker because of the potential that Tucker's conviction might have a political impact on the Clintons. The court said Woods would surely be fair, but that the newspaper articles created at least an appearance of potential bias that could erode confidence in the courts. Compare this to Mandanici's points. He presented a stack of newspaper and magazine clippings about Starr's conflicts.
„h His association with the Bush administration, where he lost his Solicitor General job and a potential Supreme Court appointment upon Clinton's victory in 1992.
„h His efforts to intervene on behalf of Paula Jones against Clinton in her sexual harassment suit.
„h His campaign gifts of $1,750 to Clinton's Republican presidential foes in the 1996 election.
„h His representation of the Republican National Committee, conservative foundations and tobacco interests opposing Clinton.
„h His use of the independent prosecutor's office to bludgeon federal officials who had sued his law firm for aiding savings and loan fraud.
„h and on and on.
[Ernest Dumas, September 20, 1996; various other sources]
This list could go on and on. I have, immediately available, many more documented points that I could bring up, but people should do some researching themselves.
The Independent Counsel law says that the Attorney General should investigate to see whether a special prosecutor has violated federal criminal law if a prosecution "may result in a personal, financial, or political conflict of interest". I'd say there were grounds.
Is there a point to all of this?
The point of all this is not to revile Kenneth Starr. It is to show that he is a man with an agenda. An agenda that could hardly be termed "Independent". An agenda that neatly meshed with the inerests of others who were in a position to be able to ensure that he could continue his investigation in any direction that he wanted. Anyone that did not mesh as well with the motivation of particular political interests would have been canned within two weeks of anyone uncovering any of this information. The media knew about it, but sensationalsm sells. Most people did not even hear about it. And when you're raised on soap operas and tabloid journalism, where the only way to get heard above the others is to increase the level of the shock value, they've come to want the sensationalism and thereby Starr was not an innocent nor bipartisan counsel that should have been appointed to conduct the investigation.
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by vraiblonde
So Pete's now a loser because you don't agree with him? Interesting.

So, because there are a few other people out there who don't understand the situation, that gives you credibility? Interesting.

Difference of opinion isn't your God given right - it's your government given right.

That's tellin' him, Dems.


:popcorn:

it is my God given right thank you very much. Government protects that right. Do I need to now quote the bible to you - oh that's right I think I recall that you were atheist and that is something we will definately have to disagree on

In response to you Ken, you can spout off all the legalese you want to justify the war in Iraq but me and the REST of the world (i.e. other countries) do not agree with our invasion. You can gerrymander the language to fit your own agressive intereptation and belief on Iraq but I just don't see the need to continue fighting in Iraq - its not worth the lives that keep getting lost. I suppose us now proposing to go to Mars is so we can find Saddam's WMDs???? They don't and never have existed. it's all about their OIL.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by vraiblonde


Difference of opinion isn't your God given right - it's your government given right.

In this area, I have to side with Dems. Our rights are not *granted* to us by our government. The Bill of Rights does not GRANT rights - it forbids the Congress from infringing on those rights, which already exist.

Congress doesn't GIVE you freedom of speech, it only guarantees and protects it. You were BORN with it.

This is the concept behind "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

These are rights you possess by your nature as a human. Further, it is the reason behind the protecting the rights of NON citizens. SAME concept. Men are *born* with these rights.
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by SamSpade
In this area, I have to side with Dems. Our rights are not *granted* to us by our government. The Bill of Rights does not GRANT rights - it forbids the Congress from infringing on those rights, which already exist.

Congress doesn't GIVE you freedom of speech, it only guarantees and protects it. You were BORN with it.

This is the concept behind "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

These are rights you possess by your nature as a human. Further, it is the reason behind the protecting the rights of NON citizens. SAME concept. Men are *born* with these rights.

Thank you samspade! :) I knew I was born with this!!:smile:
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by dems4me
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....YADA YADA YADA

Poor thing.....tell you what, you just sit there and cower like the scared victim your party wants you to be and wait for them to protect you against the all that is evil. Every time you open your :loser: mouth to blame Bush for not fixing in 3 years what the Dems spent 8 not fixing you look like a fool. Everytime you open your loser mouth to "rationalize" what Clinton did you expose your character. Everytime you ignore what Bush really has done while you rail about what is "all his fault" you look like a goober. But when you compare what we did in Iraq to what Hitler did you expose yourself to be a complete and utter moron. I am sure glad I will cancel out your vote. Unless the mean old Republicans find out you have a warrant or parking tickets and trick you into not voting because the law will be looking for you that day. :duh:
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by Pete
Poor thing.....tell you what, you just sit there and cower like the scared victim your party wants you to be and wait for them to protect you against the all that is evil. Every time you open your :loser: mouth to blame Bush for not fixing in 3 years what the Dems spent 8 not fixing you look like a fool. Everytime you open your loser mouth to "rationalize" what Clinton did you expose your character. Everytime you ignore what Bush really has done you look like a goober. But when you compare what we did in Iraq to what Hitler did you expose yourself to be a complete and utter moron. I am sure glad I will cancel out your vote. Unless the mean old Republicans find out you have a warrant or parking tickets and trick you into not voting because the law will be looking for you that day. :duh:

I am not the only one with this opinion. You will realize this on election day - the country is split 50/50 on Bush's accomplishes and his warmongering spirit.

Also, with his new budget, the Washington Post says that many programs will be ELIMINATED but the White House has yet to comment on which ones - instead they are giving more money to the endowment of the arts. If I worked at a program that was being eliminated -- not downsized -- but eliminated, I'd want to know. And as a citizen of the United States, I'd like to know what Pres. Bush has decided to stop my tax dollars from paying and where they are being refunnelled to. He plans on eliminating programs -- but will not state all of them or any of them???? smells a little fishy to me. He is an economic nightmare. As Wanda Sykes says "Bush gets my approval rating, he's done everything I expected him to do.... economy is in the toilet, we are at war and everything is on fire.!!"

Grow up.
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by dems4me
I am not the only one with this opinion. You will realize this on election day - the country is split 50/50 on Bush's accomplishes and his warmongering spirit.

Also, with his new budget, the Washington Post says that many programs will be ELIMINATED but the White House has yet to comment on which ones - instead they are giving more money to the endowment of the arts. If I worked at a program that was being eliminated -- not downsized -- but eliminated, I'd want to know. And as a citizen of the United States, I'd like to know what Pres. Bush has decided to stop my tax dollars from paying and where they are being refunnelled to. He plans on eliminating programs -- but will not state all of them or any of them???? smells a little fishy to me. He is an economic nightmare. As Wanda Sykes says "Bush gets my approval rating, he's done everything I expected him to do.... economy is in the toilet, we are at war and everything is on fire.!!"

Grow up.

If you had any freaking clue how stupid you sound you would jump off a bridge. Warmongering? Haiti, Kosovo, Bosnia, Somolia, It seems your poster boy was a little free with the trigger finger too, except he didn't have the excuse of a 9/11 now did he?

The budget is public record. All you have to do is check it out. Problem is that congress (who approves the budget BTW) really doesn't want anyone to find it very easily because then you would find out about things like PORK.

Economy in the toilet. You think that started in Jan 2000? Ken King has alreay told you what brought that about but your head is stuck in the sand. Do you remember Alan Greenspahn telling everyone over and over about running up the market with over inflated .com stock? Testifying in congress? You actually think that Kenneth Lay and Skilling waited until January of 2000 to start the Enron crap?


You need to move to Hollywood California because your conspiracy theories would make good fiction for a screen play.
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by Pete
If you had any freaking clue how stupid you sound you would jump off a bridge. Warmongering? Haiti, Kosovo, Bosnia, Somolia, It seems your poster boy was a little free with the trigger finger too, except he didn't have the excuse of a 9/11 now did he?

The budget is public record. All you have to do is check it out. Problem is that congress (who approves the budget BTW) really doesn't want anyone to find it very easily because then you would find out about things like PORK.

Economy in the toilet. You think that started in Jan 2000? Ken King has alreay told you what brought that about but your head is stuck in the sand. Do you remember Alan Greenspahn telling everyone over and over about running up the market with over inflated .com stock? Testifying in congress? You actually think that Kenneth Lay and Skilling waited until January of 2000 to start the Enron crap?

I don't believe Ken's theory on wow is me Bush and all his excuses for the economy. Greenspan said that we were just in state of "rash exuberance" -- coincidentally all under the Clinton administration -- you and ken don't hold Bush responsible for anything under the sun and its almost sickening.

GYHOYA and do the research for yourself.


You need to move to Hollywood California because your conspiracy theories would make good fiction for a screen play.
 

Pete

Repete
Originally posted by dems4me
-- you and ken don't hold Bush responsible for anything under the sun and its almost sickening.
And I find it equally sickening that you blame Bush for everyhting. It is appearant that you have no clue as to economics, micro or macro.

For the record I DO hold Bush responsible for things. I do not want another $ going to the NEA so they can distribute money to those who squirt pain onto a bed sheet out their butts and call it art. The simple matter is that he is pandering to the liberals who love that crap.

I do not like his woddy for Mexico, and opening the border for a flood of new welfare recipients.

I don't like the support that the GOP gave the bankruptcy reform act that died in congress.

I don't like any politician who takes money form lobby's, PACs or corporations. But that is how it is but I wished he had passed campaign finance reform.

I do not like that China has gotten FNTS

But one thing is for sure, his agenda is more to my liking than the Dems.

I am significantly more secure with the world's view of the US. Fear works and it will be a cold day in hell before any more of those radical goobers waltz in and try another 9/11.

I am happy with his protectionist tarriff 's that he did in several industries to protect US markets form dumping.

I am middle class and got my tx cut. Why would Kerry offer me one yet he will not back making the ones I already have permanent?

Kerry wants to make it illegal for US corps to move jobs overseas, yet he voted for NAFTA?

BTW does this policy include his wife's namesake company?

From Heinz website:


World Locations: The Americas



H.J. HEINZ COMPANY OF CANADA LTD
Established 1909
North York, Ontario, Canada

Factory: Leamington, Ontario
Major Product Lines: baby foods and juices/beans/canned pasta/frozen appetizers/gravies/ketchup/mustard/red juices/relish/salad and sandwich spreads/sauces/soup/tomato products/vinegar.
Brand Names and Trademarks: Alpha-Getti/Diana Sauce/Heinz/Pablum/Scarios/Zoodles.

OMSTEAD FOODS LIMITED
Acquired 1991
Wheatley, Ontario, Canada

Factory: Wheatley, Ontario
Major Product Lines: coated appetizers/fish/frozen vegetables and fruit.
Brand Names and Trademarks: Leo D'Or/
Omstead.



ALIMENTOS HEINZ C.A.
Established 1959
Caracas, Venezuela

Factory: San Joaquín
Major Product Lines: baby foods/bouillon/ketchup/sauces/soups/vinegar.
Brand Name and Trademark: Heinz.

DISTRIBUIDORA BANQUETE, S.A.
Acquired 2001
San José, Costa Rica

Factory: San José
Major Product Lines: ketchup/sauces.
Brand Name and Trademark: Banquete/Columbia/Emily Gyor/Salsitica/Tipica.
 
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dems4me

Guest
well pete -- following your lead -- there are a few things I like about Bush.
1) He is a recovered (ing?) alcoholic which is very admirable.
2) He has a lot of malpropisms which I have the same problem with.
3) He makes the attorneys I work for very happy.
4) He makes our energy and oil conglormerate clients very happy
5) when bosses are happy, I'm happy
6) and finally, he gives more money to help Aids research than any other Republican administration

I think that's about all I can think of off hand.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Originally posted by dems4me
You tell me -- there's nothing there. It could have been media driven or something. The proof is just not there. I don't know what else I can tell you.
OMG! :roflmao: :lmao: :roflmao:

:killingme :killingme :killingme
 
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dems4me

Guest
Originally posted by vraiblonde
OMG! :roflmao: :lmao: :roflmao:

:killingme :killingme :killingme



Well -- do you know where it is vrai?? What happened to all these gases and other biological weapons???
 

Sparx

New Member
Back to the topic...
The Labor Department, in a summary of it's plan published last March, suggests how employers can avoid paying more money to those newly eligible low income workers.

"Most employers affected by the proposed rule would be expected to choose the most cost effective compensation adjustment method." So said the Labor Department.

Employers options include:
Adhering to a 40 hour work week
Raising workers slaries to a new $22,100 annual threshold making them ineligible. (workers annual pay would be converted to an hourly rate and cut, with overtime added in to equal the former salary.)

The DOL says, it is mearly listing well known choices available to employers, even under current law. "We' not saying anybody should do any of this", said Labor Department spokesman Ed Frank.

SO, DOL, WHY POINT IT OUT?
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by dems4me
I am not the only one with this opinion. You will realize this on election day - the country is split 50/50 on Bush's accomplishes and his warmongering spirit.

Not at all. In fact, this mistaken notion is the Democrat's biggest mistake, and it's going to cost them the election.

A large portion of the left absolutely HATES Bush. Hates him. If he brought people back from the dead, they'd hate him for not giving the guy a job. They just hate him. They also hate Ashcroft for some reason. *Every* time I ask someone why, they can't tell me. One even told me she wasn't sure why, but as a Democrat, she was *supposed* to hate him.

On the other side, a small portion of the right just loves the guy. Some consider him heroic, others, they just like him. A lot like him because he's a Republican.

And in the middle - maybe 60-70% - really don't give a crap.

Why? Well for one thing, half of the voting population NEVER votes. They don't bother. They're on record as saying, repeatedly, it makes no difference, because either way, it's the same. To win elections you have to win the middle, and a few of these people over.

See, Democrats are convinced there is this HUGE outrage, this *groundswell* of hatred for Bush growing nationwide. They're so convinced of it, it really perturbs them to see "propaganda" that shows otherwise. Republicans made the same mistake with Clinton - *TWICE*. They just couldn't believe with all of the scandal, people still gave him a free ride.

Now personally - I think you could have pinned a LOT more scandal on Clinton's azz then on Bush's. We have one columnist who admitted recently that he just hates Bush, hates the way he walks, smiles, talks - can't point to a single character flaw, just knows that he hates him. At least with Clinton, I could say, travel office, FBI files, govt shutdown, Monica, Kathleen Willey, blah blah blah.

ANYWAY -

When you spend all your time talking to people who AGREE with you poltically - when you dismiss every right-wing pundit, Fox News, and so on - you're going to believe EVERYONE thinks as you do. A majority still gives Bush a pass - they STILL like him. They still trust him, and consistently, poll after poll usually shows him beating ANY Democratic opponent. Americans - LIKE - Bush. Mostly.

This INFURIATES Democrats. In true liberal fashion, they're convinced that the populace is simply *ignorant* of the evil of George Bush. They believe by being MORE strident, more rabid, and shouting LOUDER, the "truth" of his evil will become apparent.

And it's why they're going to lose. They've created a fiction they believe themselves.
 
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