Calvert Co bus driver sick-out

[black dog]

It's easier if you name the ones that costs more:










There, I'm done. If you don't think that loaded costs are built into the bids you need to rethink. Engineers working for a remote Beltway Bandit at PAX get waaaay more salary than the FedGov guy doing the same job at the next desk.

And contracts never end. The sewer system still needs maintained, the F35 still needs an upgrade, the toilets still need cleaned. Not to mention the profit for the company built into every contract.

If government contracted out every function you couldn't afford it.

Years ago we didn't have a certified water/sewer operator so it was contracted out, $150K/year (this was 20 years ago). Current that slot pays around $70K for an employee. That's just one example.

I would say any Federal or State giveaway program.
For instance,

Social Security and all of there programs.

VA with those taking advantage of it.

Hud, Snap, WIC, unemployment, workers comp,
Its endless...

Private companys would be proactive on those taking advantage. The savings would improve the bottom line.

Now are you saying that sanitary wastewater doesn't have a man on 24-7-365?

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

So you've never had a fleet of diesel vehicles.....
You cant run equipment for 9 months and then catch up on maintenance...
Its never cheaper when the government runs it...

1. Nope. Never had a fleet of diesel vehicles.
2. Ok then, stagger the fleet maintenance over the year. When maintenance comes due on one, or more, release spare buses until the primary buses are taken care of.
3. Well, as I said, the school system is already paying, through the contracts, nearly all the expenses of running a school bus service anyway. (Paying for the purchase of the buses, their maintenance and repairs, insurance, employee wages, etc..) Which includes handsome profits for the owners. Sure, it might cost a little bit more, maybe, if. But at least the system would be controlled by the county and not be behooved to private bus companies and the way they treat their employees. In addition, it would eliminate a huge chuck of the education budget and several positions as well that deal with the bus system. And giving the County Government, The People, more say and control directly, how the money is spent. Because, as we all know, once County money is transferred to the school system, everyone is just told to go pound sand and is ignored, because, they, the righteous and most experienced education system, knows best how to spend it.

In addition, the county could use it's purchasing power to purchase large quantity delivery of diesel fuel purchases, and/or from the futures market.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

There are two big drivers for increasing school costs: unfunded mandates and SPED. A single out of County residential placement can cost upwards of $300K/year. A one on one aide will be $40K. Not to mention now giving every student a computer and the additional labor and cost for the enhanced cleaning protocols.

Calvert is right in the middle at #13, and not much more than the lowest, Harford County. Worcester is the highest:
This is from 2019
Education Funding Per Student Charts for 2019 – Conduit Street (mdcounties.org)

Actually, school buses are the one place where it's cheaper for it to be contracted out.

Unfunded mandates. Not law. Nothing forcing us to pay into OPEB at the rate we have been, would save a ton of money yearly which could actually be used for road infrastructure and repairs. Especially since the majority of the people weren't even around at the time to approve such grandiose pay, benefits, and retirement plans.

Start by not allowing the school system to subsidize to the tune of 75% teachers health plans. Example below.

PLAN ~ Individual (Self)​	FULL MONTHLY PREMIUM​	BOARD PAYS​	EMPLOYEE PAYS​
Health Insurance​	$1,021.41​	$766.06​	$255.35​
Dental​	$37.79​	$28.34​	$9.45​
Vision​	$9.13​	$6.85​	$2.28​

School system pays in total $801.25 per month, or $9,615 per year, for one teacher on these plans. The teacher? $267.08 a month.​

I doubt the regular private sector Jane and Joe get this kinda of health insurance benefit. Does anyone see the fairness in these? Or more especially, using their words, equality?

To really save money, the formula should be reversed where teacher's pay the $801.25 per month. You know, like those of us in the private sector paying the real cost of health insurance, (if one is able to), in addition to paying the taxes that pay these unfathomable costs to keep teachers from crying.

Oh, and look at the pay scale. I would guess the mean teacher pay to be about $80,000; to simply teach, or rather indoctrinate. There is no sane financial reason to pay any 1-12 grade teacher anything above $65,000-$70,000 at step 31. Even if they have a "doctorate", it is a worthless document to teach a 6th grade class, or any class, from curriculum provided to the teacher. Same goes for the second column. And "SPED'' (Special Education), that's even more of a racket. There is plenty reduction in spending that can be done. If there were those with the political balls to make it happen.

And giving students laptops and computers is a huge boondoggle. Should have simply been under a HS one year requirement, single computer learning class, much like typing classes were back in the day. There is sooooo much financial waste in the school system, it's mind boggling.

Oh, and please elaborate on how "it's cheaper for it to be, [buses], contracted out". Details man. I need details. Wouldn't happen to have a spread sheet comparing private school bus system costs, to the costs of a County controlled and operated school bus system, would you?

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...


Unfunded mandates. Not law. Nothing forcing us to pay into OPEB at the rate we have been, would save a ton of money yearly which could actually be used for road infrastructure and repairs. Especially since the majority of the people weren't even around at the time to approve such grandiose pay, benefits, and retirement plans.

Start by not allowing the school system to subsidize to the tune of 75% teachers health plans. Example below.

PLAN ~ Individual (Self)​	FULL MONTHLY PREMIUM​	BOARD PAYS​	EMPLOYEE PAYS​
Health Insurance​	$1,021.41​	$766.06​	$255.35​
Dental​	$37.79​	$28.34​	$9.45​
Vision​	$9.13​	$6.85​	$2.28​

School system pays in total $801.25 per month, or $9,615 per year, for one teacher on these plans. The teacher? $267.08 a month.​

I doubt the regular private sector Jane and Joe get this kinda of health insurance benefit. Does anyone see the fairness in these? Or more especially, using their words, equality?

To really save money, the formula should be reversed where teacher's pay the $801.25 per month. You know, like those of us in the private sector paying the real cost of health insurance, (if one is able to), in addition to paying the taxes that pay these unfathomable costs to keep teachers from crying.

Oh, and look at the pay scale. I would guess the mean teacher pay to be about $80,000; to simply teach, or rather indoctrinate. There is no sane financial reason to pay any 1-12 grade teacher anything above $65,000-$70,000 at step 31. Even if they have a "doctorate", it is a worthless document to teach a 6th grade class, or any class, from curriculum provided to the teacher. Same goes for the second column. And "SPED'' (Special Education), that's even more of a racket. There is plenty reduction in spending that can be done. If there were those with the political balls to make it happen.

And giving students laptops and computers is a huge boondoggle. Should have simply been under a HS one year requirement, single computer learning class, much like typing classes were back in the day. There is sooooo much financial waste in the school system, it's mind boggling.

View attachment 159952

Oh, and please elaborate on how "it's cheaper for it to be, [buses], contracted out". Details man. I need details. Wouldn't happen to have a spread sheet comparing private school bus system costs, to the costs of a County controlled and operated school bus system, would you?

Too much "feeling" and "guessing". You don't know what private employers pay for insurance, but here it is:
What percent of health insurance is paid by employers? (peoplekeep.com)
Just about the same percentage the school system does, 73% for a family plan, 80% for single coverage.

You "guess" the mean teacher salary in Calvert is $80,000. Here it is, right around your "ideal" of $60K.
Teaching in Calvert County Public Schools | Salary | Jobs | Employment (Maryland) | Teacher.org

The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about.

The buses being private offloads the legacy and capital costs. That's where any savings would be. And not one of you even has a clue why rural school systems across the country, not just here, have private school buses instead of system owned ones.

Here's "mandate" for you. It's a law:
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)

 

[GregV814]

Lots of thoughts here.

But think about this.

Politics in Calvert are stuck in the 1950's or 1960's, with an influx of the new breed. Name a County politician who does not own a liquor store, a business, or have an old Calvert County name. Therefore, their "politics" / business are intertwined. They don't want to bothered with decision making that has no impact on their $$. School bus owners? Write a check, sweep it under the carpet..... who cares. One official is busy trying to find out why his personal life has hit the fan... others want to latch onto Larry's coat tails, and its hard dealing with 855 ers that fled Montgomery County.

They flat out don't care.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Too much "feeling" and "guessing". You don't know what private employers pay for insurance, but here it is:
What percent of health insurance is paid by employers? (peoplekeep.com)
Just about the same percentage the school system does, 73% for a family plan, 80% for single coverage.

You "guess" the mean teacher salary in Calvert is $80,000. Here it is, right around your "ideal" of $60K.
Teaching in Calvert County Public Schools | Salary | Jobs | Employment (Maryland) | Teacher.org

The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about.

The buses being private offloads the legacy and capital costs. That's where any savings would be. And not one of you even has a clue why rural school systems across the country, not just here, have private school buses instead of system owned ones.

Here's "mandate" for you. It's a law:
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)

I compared the costs to a school system in WV, calling Calvert rural is a joke compared to WV.

When buses are contracted out and there are 4x the bidders than needed contracting it out may work, but when they have to convince the bidders to add more capacity they simply cant get a good deal. I'd bet that anyone bidding gets a contract, in St Mary's my redneck neighbor bought a bus and got a contract.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

Too much "feeling" and "guessing". You don't know what private employers pay for insurance, but here it is:
What percent of health insurance is paid by employers? (peoplekeep.com)
Just about the same percentage the school system does, 73% for a family plan, 80% for single coverage.

You "guess" the mean teacher salary in Calvert is $80,000. Here it is, right around your "ideal" of $60K.
Teaching in Calvert County Public Schools | Salary | Jobs | Employment (Maryland) | Teacher.org

The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about.

The buses being private offloads the legacy and capital costs. That's where any savings would be. And not one of you even has a clue why rural school systems across the country, not just here, have private school buses instead of system owned ones.

Here's "mandate" for you. It's a law:
Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)

Outside federal government, state and county employees, and possibility the hospital, Calvert Cliffs and Dominion, and maybe some government contractor workers at PAX, do tell what private sector companies in Calvert pay 73% or more for a family plan?

I meant to say the 'median' wage, not the average or mean.

"The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about."
Why is it an issue? That some parents don't allow their children to use a computer at home? Or that they don't have one? How is that a societal problem?

Wasn't questioning SPED as law, just that what is spent on it can be reduced. The funding of OPEB is the mandate, not law.

Rural? We ain't no "bedroom community" no more. If those in "planning", and those greedy developers, get their way, soon we'll have a population of 150,000 or more, and still a two lane route 4.

 

[black dog]

O

If I may ...


Outside federal government, state and county employees, and possibility the hospital, Calvert Cliffs and Dominion, and maybe some government contractor workers at PAX, do tell what private sector companies in Calvert pay 73% or more for a family plan?

That horrible employer Walmart does... Along with Union workers and Contractors at Calvert Cliffs and
Dominion Gas Works, workers and Contractors. Most Union workers companies pay the cost of health care fully as part of their package...

Cost per biweekly
pay period
For the Premier Plan second price is for tobacco users.

Associate only $29.20 $58.40 –
Associate + spouse/partner $147.70 $176.90 $206.10
Associate + child(ren) $46.80 $76.00 –
Associate + family $173.30 $202.50 $231.70

 

[PeoplesElbow]

If I may ...


Outside federal government, state and county employees, and possibility the hospital, Calvert Cliffs and Dominion, and maybe some government contractor workers at PAX, do tell what private sector companies in Calvert pay 73% or more for a family plan?

I meant to say the 'median' wage, not the average or mean.

"The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about."
Why is it an issue? That some parents don't allow their children to use a computer at home? Or that they don't have one? How is that a societal problem?

Wasn't questioning SPED as law, just that what is spent on it can be reduced. The funding of OPEB is the mandate, not law.

Rural? We ain't no "bedroom community" no more. If those in "planning", and those greedy developers, get their way, soon we'll have a population of 150,000 or more, and still a two lane route 4.

I know of some contract support people that pay an outrageous amount for their insurance.

My dad was a union glass worker and the company paid most of their insurance, very good insurance at that, but their hourly wage was fairly low because they negotiated for the health insurance instead.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...


Outside federal government, state and county employees, and possibility the hospital, Calvert Cliffs and Dominion, and maybe some government contractor workers at PAX, do tell what private sector companies in Calvert pay 73% or more for a family plan?

I meant to say the 'median' wage, not the average or mean.

"The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about."
Why is it an issue? That some parents don't allow their children to use a computer at home? Or that they don't have one? How is that a societal problem?

Wasn't questioning SPED as law, just that what is spent on it can be reduced. The funding of OPEB is the mandate, not law.

Rural? We ain't no "bedroom community" no more. If those in "planning", and those greedy developers, get their way, soon we'll have a population of 150,000 or more, and still a two lane route 4.

When you're required to make assignments that have to be done using online resources, or have remote classes like much of last year, the lack of computer access is an issue.

As for what I bolded, keep voting for the same Democratic politicians (even though they now call themselves Republicans and a couple even ran in the past as Democrats) whose fathers and grandfathers started the runaway growth ball rolling down the hill forty years ago and that's what you'll get. You know, unrestrained housing growth while doing almost absolutely nothing to bring any jobs other than minimum wage ones for your own and buddies' businesses. You then, as a public servant, get to bitch about the 65% of residents who leave the County every morning to work.

 

[black dog]

I know of some contract support people that pay an outrageous amount for their insurance.

My dad was a union glass worker and the company paid most of their insurance, very good insurance at that, but their hourly wage was fairly low because they negotiated for the health insurance instead.

The good and bad with most Union Insurance Packages is the cost out of ones package does not change with being single to married and add as many kids as you want.

 

[black dog]

When you're required to make assignments that have to be done using online resources, or have remote classes like much of last year, the lack of computer access is an issue.

As for what I bolded, keep voting for the same Democratic politicians (even though they now call themselves Republicans and a couple even ran in the past as Democrats) whose fathers and grandfathers started the runaway growth ball rolling down the hill forty years ago and that's what you'll get. You know, unrestrained housing growth while doing almost absolutely nothing to bring any jobs other than minimum wage ones for your own and buddies' businesses. You then, as a public servant, get to bitch about the 65% of residents who leave the County every morning to work.

Our city has a 500+ - acre industrial park thats buildingless for at least 15 years now. The city has an employee thats supposed to bring new businesses, factories and plants to this field or other property.
I cought up with him at lunch one day and had an interesting conversation.
He believed he still could bring new large employeers to our city, I asked him why Anderson has gotten so many new plants in the last 3-8 years and nothing for us in the same county?
He didn't have an answer, I told him companies build plants where other plants are or when deviating from that where there is a educated employment base already established.
He didnt believe me.. Its been a few years and that field is still empty of buildings...

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Let me try this, we know bus drivers are in short supply, no?

Now why would a contractor provide a low bid if they knew they were in demand? What would the county do if they suddenly requested more next year? Not pay it, leaving kids not being able to get to school? It isnt as if a lot of people will make the overhead investment in a school bus.

Supply and demand, when the supply is low they can demand more. If the county owned the buses the cost would be set. Maybe the solution is a hybrid of county owned buses with some contracted out?

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Let me try this, we know bus drivers are in short supply, no?

Now why would a contractor provide a low bid if they knew they were in demand? What would the county do if they suddenly requested more next year? Not pay it, leaving kids not being able to get to school? It isnt as if a lot of people will make the overhead investment in a school bus.

Supply and demand, when the supply is low they can demand more. If the county owned the buses the cost would be set. Maybe the solution is a hybrid of county owned buses with some contracted out?

If you had a CDL what would you drive? A school bus at $20/hour for, maybe, thirty hours a week or a concrete truck at $30+/hour for forty hours a week.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...


Outside federal government, state and county employees, and possibility the hospital, Calvert Cliffs and Dominion, and maybe some government contractor workers at PAX, do tell what private sector companies in Calvert pay 73% or more for a family plan?

I meant to say the 'median' wage, not the average or mean.

"The computer piece was necessitated by last year's events. Do I agree with with it? I don't know, I had too many kids over the years who were dropped off at school in a Benz who weren't allowed to use the at home computer if there even was one. That's one of those hidden issues no one talks about."
Why is it an issue? That some parents don't allow their children to use a computer at home? Or that they don't have one? How is that a societal problem?

Wasn't questioning SPED as law, just that what is spent on it can be reduced. The funding of OPEB is the mandate, not law.

Rural? We ain't no "bedroom community" no more. If those in "planning", and those greedy developers, get their way, soon we'll have a population of 150,000 or more, and still a two lane route 4.

What other private sector jobs are there in the County other than what you listed that aren't Mom and Pop, chain or other restaurants with a couple Dollar Stores and construction companies thrown in? Exactly the kind of businesses everybody said they wanted to up class the County years ago. Those businesses never offered benefits.

I hate to break it to you but most mandates, while they may not be a "law", have the force of one and not following them incurs penalties. Want a federal one? The EPA mandate that sewer plants and septic systems install Enhanced Nutrient Removal when replaced or upgraded.

What is OPED? I'm pretty good with acronyms but have no clue what that one is.

 

[LightRoasted]

If I may ...

What is OPED? I'm pretty good with acronyms but have no clue what that one is.

It's OPEB: Other Post Employment Benefits, aka the teacher's retirement funding.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

If I may ...


It's OPEB: Other Post Employment Benefits, aka the teacher's retirement funding.

Oh that. The pension that's designed to return 32% (which is taxable) of final year salary and for which teacher's contribute 7% every pay. That one.

 

[Bann]

There are two big drivers for increasing school costs: unfunded mandates and SPED. A single out of County residential placement can cost upwards of $300K/year. A one on one aide will be $40K. Not to mention now giving every student a computer and the additional labor and cost for the enhanced cleaning protocols.

Calvert is right in the middle at #13, and not much more than the lowest, Harford County. Worcester is the highest:
This is from 2019
Education Funding Per Student Charts for 2019 – Conduit Street (mdcounties.org)

Actually, school buses are the one place where it's cheaper for it to be contracted out.

According to the Federal IDEA Law, every SpEd student is entitled to a free and appropriate education. (FAPE) That doesn't necessarily mean a high number of students get out of county residential placements (or even one on one aides unless they are severely affected by their disability or have medical issues) I would guess out of county placements very rare, given how difficult it is to even get an IEP or 504 Plan implemented by the county school system. I know parents who have had a hell of a time getting the first meeting before the 2nd semester. If Calvert County could/would provide the services that SpEd student required, then they wouldn't need to place them out of county.

While the IDEA law is Federal, it is implented at the state and local levels. Calvert County was by far NOT the easiest LEA that I dealt with in my 19 years* of dealing with school systems in 3 different states. (Florida was hands down - the best)

*son was in school from 18mos in the Infants & Toddlers program thru HS (graduated at 21).
.

 

[Bann]

p.s. this tread sure got off topic. #shocker

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

According to the Federal IDEA Law, every SpEd student is entitled to a free and appropriate education. (FAPE) That doesn't necessarily mean a high number of students get out of county residential placements (or even one on one aides unless they are severely affected by their disability or have medical issues) I would guess out of county placements very rare, given how difficult it is to even get an IEP or 504 Plan implemented by the county school system. I know parents who have had a hell of a time getting the first meeting before the 2nd semester. If Calvert County could/would provide the services that SpEd student required, then they wouldn't need to place them out of county.

While the IDEA law is Federal, it is implented at the state and local levels. Calvert County was by far NOT the easiest LEA that I dealt with in my 19 years* of dealing with school systems in 3 different states. (Florida was hands down - the best)

*son was in school from 18mos in the Infants & Toddlers program thru HS (graduated at 21).
.

Calvert historically had the reputation of not following IDEA. It took how many lawsuits to snap them around? I can remember three or four just off the top of my head.

Out of County placements are tricky, the ones I know of were mostly due to extreme behavior issues that couldn't be handled here, not cognitive problems (except that the kid was usually years behind because of the behaviors). Those kids basically went to an enhanced control boarding situation.