Can Godless Atheists Have Moral Values?

[Xaquin44]

My belief goes like this (again, I can't emphasize enough I am not trying to speak for any other Christians, this is MY belief):

God's "plan" is not a single sheet of paper with a linear start and stop point. God can see each and every decision each and every person makes, and the resulting set of decisions from that, and so on, and so on. His "plan" includes each and every one of these contingincies, giving you complete free will, and Him complete omniscience.

This is my belief, I do not ask anyone else to subscribe to it.

then it isn't a plan.

Seeing every possible option, in no way constitutes a plan of any kind.

 

[This_person]

then it isn't a plan.

Seeing every possible option, in no way constitutes a plan of any kind.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

 

[tommyjones]

ever seen someone drown?

It doesn't exactly look painless ....



all said though, you're really really reaching here saying god takes away the pain (hahaha) .... What about the pain the parents would feel?

Why do something like that to a parent?

Or if you aren't directly responsible, why stand by and let it happen?


I've said it before, if god has a plan, it needs some revision. Even I could make a plan that doesn't somehow include dead children.

and all those kids he decides to give cancer, i am sure they have months and months of a painless death, unless you ask them

 

[PsyOps]

ah, but if god is in control, then we don't have the free will I often see us touted as having.

We were talking about killing. Now you're changing the subject. I was addressing the chaotic appearance of events like the flood that was caused by God. This was an event controlled by God. Where God can create life He also has the authority to destroy that life in which He created. And since He can create life He has complete control over how He decides this process.

If you read the Bible it is full of man having choices. From the very beginning God gave Adam and Eve a choice. It was within their free will to choose. But there was a consequence to making the wrong choice. Nevertheless, God gave them the free will to choose.

But, trying to explain why God is allowed to kill His own creation and we aren’t attempts to place us at the same level as God. This is the sort of arrogance that led to Lucifer’s fall as well as man’s. The bottom line is, can we really question God’s will? I suppose if we truly knew what His will was we wouldn’t. But because we think we know better we think we can question God.

Here’s another bottom line… We are born on this, we live a little while and then we die. How cruel is that? Some die a peaceful painless death (or so we think) and some die a very agonizing and painful death. Some die really old and some die really young. But we all die. Why? Why did God make this rule? Once again you have to consider God has a different perspective on death than we do. When you consider the premise of God’s eternity, our lives are just a blink of an eye to Him in the span of eternity. So, what is death really to God?

 

[PsyOps]

ah, but if god is in control, then we don't have the free will I often see us touted as having.

But, really you can answer this yourself. Aren't you free to make your own decisions?

 

[PsyOps]

And, if God is all-powerful, can he make a rock so big even He can't lift it?


Thanks, George Carlin.

My answer to this is, why would God even deal with such a concept. God does not deal with things on a physical plane. Rocks are objects He created, not for the purpose of proving what He can and can’t do, but for our learning. God doesn’t have to prove anything to us. Isn’t it enough that He created us? Is that not proof enough of who He is?