Xaquin44
New Member
I changed it for me!
I changed it for me!
This_person
Well-Known Member
You question the judgements and actions of God. We got that. We don't, we think He knows what He was doing. I choose to think that the innocent - the children of the flood - didn't suffer, and have everlasting life in Heaven. You choose to think they did nothing more than become fertilizer for when the water receded after the flood. I choose to believe there is meaning in life, and that God gave me the ability to find that meaning, that "higher purpose" than cattle in the field, through Him. You choose to believe that that "higher purpose" is self-driven, self-achieved. I believe I have a soul that will live on forever. You choose to believe you end when your life ends. It's okay, I'm not saying you're wrong to believe what you choose to believe, and I don't criticize your beliefs. If you don't believe in God, why do you question the actions of someone you don't believe exists?
Xaquin44
New Member
I never said I think they (anyone) just turns into fertilizer. I question because what we are presented with is B.S. and that's from any standpoint.
Thou shall(t?) not kill. ok. Who according to the bible committed the largest mass killing possible? .... .... That doesn't raise an eyebrow?
Why should I believe in or worship a god who can't (or won't) even follow his own rules?
It also calls into sharp relief the fact that either god is a HUGE hypocrite or the bible is false, and god really didn't kill almost every being on earth (even the babies and animals) (why kill the innocents?).
This_person
Well-Known Member
By reacting as an athiest (though I know you're not), I was reacting back as though you're an atheist.
As noted earlier, there is a difference between muder/killing and death due to war/punishment. No hypocracy.
Xaquin44
New Member
Whhhaaaattttt?
Dead is dead.
Be it by gods hand or a stray bullet, you're still off to join the choir invisible.
This_person
Well-Known Member
So when a madman kills a six year old child through a brutal series of tortures and attacks, and then the state tries him, sentences him, allows his appeals, and eventually humanely lethally injects him, those are the same thing? Saddam's sons killing people for not good enough soccer scores, and the service men and women fighting in the GWOT are the same thing?
tommyjones
New Member
some people have a hard time understanding its all the same to the dead person. no matter how you got there, your life is over.
This_person
Well-Known Member
That makes sense. My grandfather died in a car accident - that murderous commandment-violator!
Xaquin44
New Member
uh, no, I'm saying the end result is the same.
I didn't say what you said up there at all.
This_person
Well-Known Member
You were answering me saying there's a difference between murder and death as a punishement. I thought you thought all death was the same when you said dead is dead and the means by which it happens is unimportant because it makes God a hypocrit by killing when a commandment is not to kill.
If you're not saying that all killing is the same, then you must understand that God is not a hypocrit.
Your lament is that children died? Even though a reasonable explaination is that God caused no suffering to those children/innocents, and gave them everlasting life in Heaven?
Xaquin44
New Member
maybe I'm not saying it clearly, so I will now.
The end result is the same, but there is no difference in god killing a person by drowning vs. some psycho killing a guy by drowning.
Either scenario is compiled of a person drowning and dying.
This_person
Well-Known Member
That's not exactly true, though. Some psycho killing someone by drowning them can't ensure they have no pain - ie, physically die before they're drown. The psycho doesn't give the soul everlasting life in Heaven. God can and (my personal - not necessarily the official "church", but my personal view is He) did have that happen.
So, when a psycho murders a child, committing an immoral act (or, unethical, to get back to the thread subject
), it's very different than God allowing an innocent die in an act of virtually global punishment against the sinners.
Xaquin44
New Member
That's not exactly true, though. Some psycho killing someone by drowning them can't ensure they have no pain - ie, physically die before they're drown. The psycho doesn't give the soul everlasting life in Heaven. God can and (my personal - not necessarily the official "church", but my personal view is He) did have that happen.
So, when a psycho murders a child, committing an immoral act (or, unethical, to get back to the thread subject
ever seen someone drown?
It doesn't exactly look painless ....
all said though, you're really really reaching here saying god takes away the pain (hahaha) .... What about the pain the parents would feel?
Why do something like that to a parent?
Or if you aren't directly responsible, why stand by and let it happen?
I've said it before, if god has a plan, it needs some revision. Even I could make a plan that doesn't somehow include dead children.
PsyOps
Pixelated
Well, that sort of answered my question. It boils down to believing that God is in control the situation and knows what he's doing. Just because there was a catastrophic flood that virtually destroyed all life on earth doesn’t mean God wasn’t in control of the situation. Just because abortion destroys millions of lives every year doesn’t mean God is not in control of the situation. Because we don’t understand what is going on doesn’t mean God is not in control.
In the perspective of discussing God, life and death, we have the disadvantage of only seeing things from a physical, human perspective. Do I like this? No. Do I accept it? Well I have to. God has the advantage of seeing things from a physical and spiritual perspective. He created this universe we live in; he made the rules. We can question it, but we can’t change it. From that standpoint, you have to trust that if he was able to create this complex cycle of life we are blessed to experience, he certainly knows what he’s doing in terms of children, suffering, and death, etc…
Xaquin44
New Member
Another intresting question regarding 'gods plan'.
OK, so humans have free will right?
and gods plan is infallible right?
....
so, if I have free will, but I have to conform to gods plan, then do I have free will?
the answer would be 'no', because if I have to conform to the plan then I don't have freewill.
alternatly, If we do have free will (truly) then it throws gods plan out the window because he wouldn't know what will happen next.
thirdly, and as an aside, you can't have an infallible plan because then it isn't a 'plan' so much as a solidified future.
OK, so humans have free will right?
and gods plan is infallible right?
....
so, if I have free will, but I have to conform to gods plan, then do I have free will?
the answer would be 'no', because if I have to conform to the plan then I don't have freewill.
alternatly, If we do have free will (truly) then it throws gods plan out the window because he wouldn't know what will happen next.
thirdly, and as an aside, you can't have an infallible plan because then it isn't a 'plan' so much as a solidified future.
Xaquin44
New Member
ah, but if god is in control, then we don't have the free will I often see us touted as having.
This_person
Well-Known Member
And, if God is all-powerful, can he make a rock so big even He can't lift it?
Thanks, George Carlin.
Xaquin44
New Member
And, if God is all-powerful, can he make a rock so big even He can't lift it?
Thanks, George Carlin.
more like can god make a burrito so hot he can't eat it!
either way, it's a legitimate question, and calling me a famous comedian isn't really an answer.
PsyOps
Pixelated
The part you aren't getting is God views death differently than us. For us, death on this earth means the end. There is no death with God. The people dying during the flood does not mean a certain end of life to God. God can create life (as he did in the beginning) at will.
God also could not bear to see His creation become so corrupt and defile His creation. So He purged the earth and started over. Just the same, man grew corrupt all over again thus defiling God's creation. While, in the end, He will purge the earth of this corruption again (as we read in Revelation).
If you're asking for or trying to come up with a rational explanation for this you wont find one until God explains it. It makes no sense. But God does not feel obligated to explain to us why He is justified in killing His own creation except to say, it's His creation and He will do what He sees fit with it.
This_person
Well-Known Member
My belief goes like this (again, I can't emphasize enough I am not trying to speak for any other Christians, this is MY belief):
God's "plan" is not a single sheet of paper with a linear start and stop point. God can see each and every decision each and every person makes, and the resulting set of decisions from that, and so on, and so on. His "plan" includes each and every one of these contingincies, giving you complete free will, and Him complete omniscience.
This is my belief, I do not ask anyone else to subscribe to it.