Smokey1
Well-Known Member
That is a contradictory example to your premise.
Cartoonist Slammed As 'Racist' For Serena Williams Cartoon
- Thread starter GURPS
- Start date
That is a contradictory example to your premise.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Not injecting a racist overlay to a caricature of a tennis player (regardless of race) would have stopped the thread
Note, you addressed exactly zero of my points, and decided to call me a racist instead. Guess what that makes your argument?
A) I could not care less about Nike - I own none, never intended on buying any, and still will never buy any.
B) Looks like you can thank Trump for that rise. If we look over five years, it was pretty flat during Obama and started a new, faster trend up starting November of 2016. Apparently, they're a business and businesses are generically all doing better under Trump's administration and reduced-regulation leadership.
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Toxick
Splat
No.
IF I walk into a restaurant, and take a big stinking #### in the middle of the floor and then say - "HEY! I'm just going to the bathroom, it's perfectly natural!" - That doesn't make the patrons of that restaurant a bunch of stuck-up floofy-floofs because they interpret my behavior to be barbaric and disgusting. It makes my behavior barbaric and disgusting regardless of intent.
Even if it wasn't my intent to make everyone throw up and leave.
Smokey1
Well-Known Member
Your opinion is not always fact especially in this case. Can you provide any actual evidence that the cartoon was "racist" considering the actual definition of the term?
This_person
Well-Known Member
You paint quite the picture!
But, ok, I see your point. You're saying that it is up to the people interpreting to decide what it is, and not the intent of the perpetrator of the act.
.....waiting......
This_person
Well-Known Member
So which are you, TP: in denial or ####ing retarded?
Neither. I am not ruled by race-baiting. I find a caricature - even one that invokes in the eyes of the beholder memories of racist intents of the past - to not be racist when it is not in any way a suggestion of superiority or inferiority.
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I've been told that understanding the meaning of words, and following that meaning, is considered pedantic and semantics, but it's how we communicate properly.
Do you agree that most people would be put off by someone taking a #### in the middle of a restaurant, regardless of the ####ter's intent?
That requires a yes or no. Anything else will be understood as you backpedaling because you know you're on the wrong side of this debate. Say yes or no, then we can proceed.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Yes, of course most people would. They would definitely interpret it as a ####ty thing to do
But, now, let's assume (since this is such an outrageous example) that the ####ter's culture is such that ####ting 10 feet from the people, in full view, is just what you do - the norm. Much like a caricature is something you do which exaggerates to the point of absurdity traits and appearances of the person you are lampooning - it's just what you do.
In context, the ####ter's action - while justifiably disgusting to the rest of us - is not meant as offensive. It's just what you do. Just like a caricature.
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Toxick
Splat
You paint quite the picture!
But, ok, I see your point. You're saying that it is up to the people interpreting to decide what it is, and not the intent of the perpetrator of the act.
You tell me:
Is taking a dump on the floor of a restaurant objectively rude and disgusting?
Or is it up to the individuals eating to decide whether they perceive it to be rude and disgusting.
So if some third-world tribal person who has never seen a toilet in their life came and took a crap right on your front doorstep, you would be understanding and not offended? You wouldn't tell them, "Get the hell off my doorstep, third-world tribal person, and stop crapping all over the place!"?
Toxick
Splat
Yes, of course most people would. They would definitely interpret it as a ####ty thing to do
But, now, let's assume (since this is such an outrageous example) that the ####ter's culture is such that ####ting 10 feet from the people, in full view, is just what you do - the norm. Much like a caricature is something you do which exaggerates to the point of absurdity traits and appearances of the person you are lampooning - it's just what you do.
In context, the ####ter's action - while justifiably disgusting to the rest of us - is not meant as offensive. It's just what you do. Just like a caricature.
Let's say that I'm doing the ####ting. Not some uncultured heathen from a third-world ####-hole.
I live in this culture, and I know that other people in our culture are generally uptight about butt-stuff.
And still I took a dump on the floor - because I was having cramps and there was a line to the toilet.
Well, the artist lives in our culture and knows that people in our culture are generally uptight about race stuff.
And still he drew that, and it still got published because free speech.
Justifiably disgusting to the rest of us.
This_person
Well-Known Member
It is objectively rude and disgusting to my culture, and to anyone who values cleanliness in eating.
I am not offended by a dog ####ting in my house when it is a puppy. It knows no better.
This drawing is not "objectively" anything other than a drawing. If the drawing had a thought-balloon that said, "unga-boonga, I'm a dumb niger whore" above it, I would find that patently, undeniably racist. It did not. That would be more like a human from Manhattan ####ting in a restaurant in terms of being objectively something.
Using the restaurant vein of example, this is more like eating food in the restaurant and leaving a 15% tip when you're very rich. That is to say, some people would say, "he/she is rich, and should have given a better tip", or, "he/she must not have been happy with the service", or "15% is what is objectively the norm, so there was no need to tip more or less". It is up to the interpretation of the person seeing/receiving the tip to decide what it means.
It is not "unreasonable" to see the racism in it. We have all been trained to be concerned about NOT being racist that we go to extremes instead of just living our lives. It is also not denial or ####ing stupidity to NOT see any racism in it, because it is objectively just a caricature of a person after they were in the news for throwing a tantrum and violently destroying their own equipment. I choose the latter, you choose the former.
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I have no idea if I am happier than you or not, but I recalled seeing this meme some time ago and it seemed to fit.
Thank you for bringing this discussion back where it belongs.
Unless the cartoonist has been in a cave for the last 10-20 years, he had to have known that portraying Serena as some bone-nosed tribeswoman banging a club on the ground would offend a large number of people. Perhaps he was blinded by his own ideology and tunnel vision - and many people are - but that cartoon went through a bunch of hands before it was published...and apparently not one of them said, "Um, you know guys..."
That's some clueless #### right there.
This_person
Well-Known Member
You understand, the only way to fix the problem of being uptight at every little potential appearance of something that "might" offend is to stop being uptight, yes?
Remember what Morgan Freeman said when asked about racism: "Stop talking about it."
Edit: this is to say, stop finding racism where there is none.
This_person
Well-Known Member
You saw a different picture than I did.
I saw a caricatured muscular black woman stomping a tennis racket - just like she did in real life.
Toxick
Splat
But here's the thing - and I mentioned this yesterday.. we're not talking about a dog. Or an actual barbarian or even a young uneducated sweet summer child who drew this picture.
This is a professional artist who is (presumably) situationally aware.
I say presumably because I do not know the artist, his upbringing, his culture or truth be told, his species. I am presuming this is an American who is familiar with American Culture (as well as its current foibles and mores). And I do not believe this is an unreasonable presumption.
So here is my compromise with you.... If this is an American artist who lives in this culture and is familiar with our trends, our past and sensitivities and sensibilities, then I will continue to assert this is an ignorant piece of work put together by ignorant person, and approved by other ignoramouses, and defended by even more ignoramouses.
If it was drawn by a puppy, I will take everything I've said back and issue you, and everyone else in this thread a formal, sincere apologies with all due humility.
:shrug:
I'm not offended per se. I'm just boggled that anyone would think that picture was OK in today's climate. That kind of #### belongs in the past with Flat-Earthers, zoot-suits and zeppelins.
Smokey1
Well-Known Member
What, that they didn't see it as you do? You don't seem to get the fact that it is only your opinion that the cartoon is racist. Others can and do see it differently.