Center For Life Enrichment on 235 Is A School Zone?

[3CATSAILOR]

Does anyone know why the Center for Life Enrichment on Route 235 is posted as a School Zone by SHA? Are they a K -12 school? Just wondering. I wonder how Maryland identifies K-12 and do they fall within the definition? It will be important to know once the Speed Cameras start coming in. If not within the definition of K-12, I suspect a Speed Camera will be placed there anyhow. In particular if it is revenue based instead of safety as the County pretends it to be.

 

[glhs837]

Not traditional K-12, but an educational center for developmentally disabled folks of all ages. Prepares them for jobs and such. So yes, a school, but not one where the students are roaming about the campus.

And of course its revenue based. Calvert cleared almost a half million last year for their Sheriffs department. And unless someone can point me towards any records showing any child has ever been hurt or killed in a St Marys school zone by a speeder, what other conclusion is there?

I saw the Sheriffs presentation sort of hinted that some halo effect was going to slow down all of 235 with a few camera zones, which is BS. That never happens. People slow for the cameras, then speed back up.

 

[vraiblonde]

Does anyone know why the Center for Life Enrichment on Route 235 is posted as a School Zone by SHA? Are they a K -12 school? Just wondering. I wonder how Maryland identifies K-12 and do they fall within the definition? It will be important to know once the Speed Cameras start coming in. If not within the definition of K-12, I suspect a Speed Camera will be placed there anyhow. In particular if it is revenue based instead of safety as the County pretends it to be.

Developmentally disabled people work and go to classes there.

If you drive the posted speed limit you should have no problems.

 

[glhs837]

Developmentally disabled people work and go to classes there.

If you drive the posted speed limit you should have no problems.

Even if you drive 10mph over you wont have problems as the cameras by law cannot trigger unless you are 12mph over the limit. Which is your fiorst clue its about money and not safety.

Enforcement for revenue vice safety is a Bad Idea. Cloaking it in "It's for the children!!!!! Wont anyone think of the children!!!!" is just a way to avoid debate. Literally the below is why they are in school zones. And how it was sold on 210.

 

[vraiblonde]

Even if you drive 10mph over you wont have problems as the cameras by law cannot trigger unless you are 12mph over the limit. Which is your fiorst clue its about money and not safety.

Enforcement for revenue vice safety is a Bad Idea. Cloaking it in "It's for the children!!!!! Wont anyone think of the children!!!!" is just a way to avoid debate. Literally the below is why they are in school zones. And how it was sold on 210.

So what do you think they should do to slow people down in areas where children are out and about?

What is your side of the debate?

 

[Tech]

We had the 15mph when flashing school signs at the public high school next to my high school while we had none, quess they figured we were smarter.

 

[NOTSMC]

I'm REALLY not trying to start anything on the subject; merely curious. There's been quite a bit about speed zones/cameras etc on this forum and I'm not sure I understand why some forum people are bothered by it. I think even my oldest bitches about it from time to time as well, but he complains a lot, so I don't want to invite that conversation. Anyone?

 

[glhs837]

So what do you think they should do to slow people down in areas where children are out and about?

What is your side of the debate?

You are asking the wrong question. Do we need to slow people down if there is no danger to the children? No school in the county allows children to be out and about except high schools. So what danger are we trying to mitigate?

My side of the debate is quite simply that traffic enforcement solely to generate revenue is a Bad Thing. There should be an underlying reason that enhances safety and mitigates unsafe conditions.

I'm REALLY not trying to start anything on the subject; merely curious. There's been quite a bit about speed zones/cameras etc on this forum and I'm not sure I understand why some forum people are bothered by it. I think even my oldest bitches about it from time to time as well, but he complains a lot, so I don't want to invite that conversation. Anyone?

See above. Its a money grab to get more cash for the Sheriffs office. It does not make children safer since no children are in danger to start with.


Keep in mind, these are not set up as deterrents. The fines are low at $40, and there is no MVA insurance reporting unless you failed to pay the fine. In which case once you pay up, you get the hold on MVA activities removed. Its all about money.

 

[NOTSMC]

You are asking the wrong question. Do we need to slow people down if there is no danger to the children? No school in the county allows children to be out and about except high schools. So what danger are we trying to mitigate?

My side of the debate is quite simply that traffic enforcement solely to generate revenue is a Bad Thing. There should be an underlying reason that enhances safety and mitigates unsafe conditions.




See above. Its a money grab to get more cash for the Sheriffs office. It does not make children safer since no children are in danger to start with.

I see your point and I think understand that it's more government, more regulation, etc, but isn't the way to get back at the state I guess, is to adhere to what's posted so that you can't be fined? It's like when they raise taxes on stuff, you really don't have a choice but to pay, and adhering to posted speed limits, you have a choice to adhere or ignore. And I'm really really not trying to get in an argument with you - you're among my favorite people on the forum because you are so reasonable plus you're in my neck of the woods so...

 

[TPD]

No school in the county allows children to be out and about except high schools. So what danger are we trying to mitigate?

Do they even allow kids out of high school except to arrive and leave? It's not like the days when I went to high school where you could actually go outside between classes, which in a lot of cases was quicker than navigating the crowded halls. I just find this policy absurd where high school kids cannot go outside between classes during the day. So I would venture to say we actually see more kids outside during the day at elementary schools while at recess.

My side of the debate is quite simply that traffic enforcement solely to generate revenue is a Bad Thing. There should be an underlying reason that enhances safety and mitigates unsafe conditions.

See above. Its a money grab to get more cash for the Sheriffs office. It does not make children safer since no children are in danger to start with.

Keep in mind, these are not set up as deterrents. The fines are low at $40, and there is no MVA insurance reporting unless you failed to pay the fine. In which case once you pay up, you get the hold on MVA activities removed. Its all about money.

And where does this automated enforcement stop? Why not just use portable speed cameras anywhere that citizens complain about speeds in their neighborhoods? As much as I despise the block-the-box commuters at gate 2, I am not for automated enforcement here either. Passing in the turn lane on 235 pisses me off as well, but I don't think camera enforcement is a good idea. I am against any government agency using cameras to identify and fine me for any minor or criminal infraction. It becomes a massive database to track our every move to use against us at anytime. AND we don't have the right to face our accuser - the camera. The law is set up in a way that the court system cannot be bothered with speed camera fines. How do we know these things are accurate? Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to rethink their views on our government's control over us.

 

[Tech]

Money move, speeding $50 in school zone $100, getting more for their effort. Wait till they put that work zone sign up, does it go to $200 or stay at $100?

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

Do they even allow kids out of high school except to arrive and leave? It's not like the days when I went to high school where you could actually go outside between classes, which in a lot of cases was quicker than navigating the crowded halls. I just find this policy absurd where high school kids cannot go outside between classes during the day. So I would venture to say we actually see more kids outside during the day at elementary schools while at recess.

You have no idea how much havoc one or a couple or three high school kids can create in a couple minutes unsupervised whether outside or inside. I may agree with you but the reality is that the 5% of kids who have no self-control screw it up for the other 95%. And that doesn't matter how good or bad the school is (I'll grant you that the percentage is higher at "bad" schools or any school where the dominant sub-culture plays "follow the leader").

 

[rio]

My problem with speed cameras, besides the money grab, is that you can be cruising along nicely at about 8 mph over the posted limit, no danger of triggering the camera, when the idiot in front of you slams on their brakes right at the camera. Just like they do when they see a cop shooting radar. Like you haven't already been busted if you're truly going to fast.

 

[glhs837]

I see your point and I think understand that it's more government, more regulation, etc, but isn't the way to get back at the state I guess, is to adhere to what's posted so that you can't be fined? It's like when they raise taxes on stuff, you really don't have a choice but to pay, and adhering to posted speed limits, you have a choice to adhere or ignore. And I'm really really not trying to get in an argument with you - you're among my favorite people on the forum because you are so reasonable plus you're in my neck of the woods so...

I don't want to "get back at the state", or the county. Its not about "more govt and regulation" I want them to act right in the first place. If you need more money for the Sheriff, then budget for it. Don't make up some BS about keeping the kids safe when the only reason for the cameras is to make money. I almost always keep my speed to 8 or 9 over in any case.

If the goal is truly to deter speeding in school zones instead of making money, there are simple ways to demonstrate that.

1. Set fines high enough to really deter people.
2. Add points to licenses.
3. Lockbox that money for citizen payback checks. For Calvert, with 94,000 population, that would make more than 4K per person.

But since its really about making money, none of those things will happen.

 

[glhs837]

Do they even allow kids out of high school except to arrive and leave? It's not like the days when I went to high school where you could actually go outside between classes, which in a lot of cases was quicker than navigating the crowded halls. I just find this policy absurd where high school kids cannot go outside between classes during the day. So I would venture to say we actually see more kids outside during the day at elementary schools while at recess.


And where does this automated enforcement stop? Why not just use portable speed cameras anywhere that citizens complain about speeds in their neighborhoods? As much as I despise the block-the-box commuters at gate 2, I am not for automated enforcement here either. Passing in the turn lane on 235 pisses me off as well, but I don't think camera enforcement is a good idea. I am against any government agency using cameras to identify and fine me for any minor or criminal infraction. It becomes a massive database to track our every move to use against us at anytime. AND we don't have the right to face our accuser - the camera. The law is set up in a way that the court system cannot be bothered with speed camera fines. How do we know these things are accurate? Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to rethink their views on our government's control over us.

Ask DC, those buggers make serious bank. Block the box, right on red, fines scaled with speed, lowered speed limits. Biggest revenue generator in the city. But DC has a unique situation where the vast majority of the people caught are not voting citizens so they are like fish in a barrel.

Traffic speed camera becomes DC’s top revenue generator - Washington Examiner New speed camera becomes D.C.'s top revenue generator

In Washington, D.C., hundreds of new speed cameras are being installed as the city’s main approach to traffic enforcement.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[WheezyCarl]

Heading north on 235 yesterday, get cut off by vehicle that was zig-zagging through traffic. Met up with them at the light, bumper sticker asked me if, " I follow Jesus this closely". Must have been late for church. Huh. Sorry, rant over.

 

[SamSpade]

CLE is one of those places that if you didn’t know it was there, you’d miss it totally. Most of it is obscured from the highway by a significant chunk of trees and then a parking lot - and on a busy day, you might not be aware anything was going on inside.

If LHS had a speed zone, it might be odd, because there’s little likelihood anyone from the school would be crossing Rte 5 for any reason. So they don’t. There is ZERO reason for anyone at CLE to ever be near 235. Like ever. I slow down when I pass Toots and Last Drop at night, not because there’s a law but because there’s a good chance an inebriated person is going to walk right in front of me.

I’m not going to have a problem speeding past CLE but you have to wonder why in this case.

 

[vraiblonde]

I don't understand why it's so hard to just drive the speed limit. I do it all the time, so it's not like you have to have a PhD to master this task. If the sign says slow for school zone, how does it hurt you to slow down? Show me on the doll how it hurts you....

 

[NOTSMC]

CLE is one of those places that if you didn’t know it was there, you’d miss it totally. Most of it is obscured from the highway by a significant chunk of trees and then a parking lot - and on a busy day, you might not be aware anything was going on inside.

If LHS had a speed zone, it might be odd, because there’s little likelihood anyone from the school would be crossing Rte 5 for any reason. So they don’t. There is ZERO reason for anyone at CLE to ever be near 235. Like ever. I slow down when I pass Toots and Last Drop at night, not because there’s a law but because there’s a good chance an inebriated person is going to walk right in front of me.

I’m not going to have a problem speeding past CLE but you have to wonder why in this case.

My son goes there and I know a lot of their participants. I've never seen it happen that any of them have been near the road, but I can think of LOTS of reasons that it might happen.

 

[NorthBeachPerso]

My son goes there and I know a lot of their participants. I've never seen it happen that any of them have been near the road, but I can think of LOTS of reasons that it might happen.

Yes. You could get a wanderer somewhat easily.