Church opens gun range ministry ‘in the name of Jesus Christ

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ProximaCentauri

Member
Chuckt said:
I argued with an atheist for years and he would just hammer away at me. If all you have to do is make up arguments then you could spend your life arguing and it would never change the truth.
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Yes, I have to agree with you chuckt. "Made up arguments" and fairytales - while they appeal to one's emotions and existential angst - cannot change the truth. Truth, i.e. objective reality, can only be discerned via objective evidence. Not bronze age fairytales.

Chuckt said:
Christians could be the most happy people and not argue with you because if you only have sunglasses on then the only thing you will see is darkness.
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Hmmm, yes just recently I changed my sunglasses that I use for golf, to a lighter tint resulting in more birdies while still protecting my eyes. So it seems there are some sunglasses that are beneficial, at least from my point of view, and if you play golf I'd be happy to give you a tip on the glasses - and swing tips as well unless you're already a scratch golfer. Regardless of whether you play golf, would suggest you protect your eyes :cool:, chill, enjoy life and try not to take yourself so seriously.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
ProximaCentauri said:
Yes, I have to agree with you chuckt. "Made up arguments" and fairytales - while they appeal to one's emotions and existential angst - cannot change the truth. Truth, i.e. objective reality, can only be discerned via objective evidence. Not bronze age fairytales.
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There is a lot of archaeological evidence and I might actually buy the "Archaeological Study Bible".

Have you read, "The Presumption of Atheism" by Antony Flew?

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/flew01.htm

Antony Flew converted from atheism to deism and his book is a treat to read.

There is also a difference between the historical Jesus and the Easter Bunny because:

".....the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.”

http://www.equip.org/article/the-presumptuousness-of-atheism/
http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/201303/201303_026_Athiests.cfm

And then if you really wanted to press me on atheism, I would go with the articles at answers.org and I would probably start out with the Humanist Manifesto of 2000.

http://www.answers.org/atheism/

[video]https://youtu.be/4TpM98RYrnU?t=116[/video]
 
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Chuckt

Guest
Gilligan said:
The all-time classic counter to reality ^.
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Gilligan,

No one can prove a negative: "God doesn't exist" so what you have is presumption and you have to prove it but you can't so instead of atheists worrying about themselves, they put the oneness (burden of proof) on the theist when really the oneness belongs on something you can't prove": "God does not exist".

Agnosticism would be more the default belief and not atheism because an Agnostic would say he doesn't know and an atheist would say he knows God doesn't exist. Well if you know, prove it. You can't prove a negative. When you put the burden of proof on theism, what you really do is live an unexamined life where you haven't challenged your own beliefs. On top of that, you and everyone else have a very large conceptual problem when you deny the existence of God.

Chuck
 
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Chuckt

Guest
Gilligan said:
The all-time classic counter to reality ^.
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I would ask myself a question only a child could ask: what would it be like to be a carp? What a strange world it would be! I imagined that the pond would be an entire universe, one that is two-dimensional in space. The carp would only be able to swim forwards and backwards, and left and right. But I imagined that the concept of “up”, beyond the lily pads, would be totally alien to them. Any carp scientist daring to talk about “hyperspace”, i.e. the third dimension “above” the pond, would immediately be labelled a crank. I wondered what would happen if I could reach down and grab a carp scientist and lift it up into hyperspace. I thought what a wondrous story the scientist would tell the others! The carp would babble on about unbelievable new laws of physics: beings who could move without fins. Beings who could breathe without gills. Beings who could emit sounds without bubbles. I then wondered: how would a carp scientist know about our existence? One day it rained, and I saw the rain drops forming gentle ripples on the surface of the pond.
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"Hyperspace and a Theory of Everything"

"What lies beyond our 4 dimensions?"

http://mkaku.org/home/articles/hyperspace-and-a-theory-of-everything/

Carps don't believe because they don't see outside of the pond.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
Gilligan said:
You are a riot Chuck..a constant source of both amazement and amusement. Carry on...please.
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Well when you disprove that God exists, you will have become God by knowing everything and then you will find yourself wrong.
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Chuckt said:
Well when you disprove that God exists, you will have become God by knowing everything and then you will find yourself wrong.
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I'll get to that. Just as soon as I get done proving to Master Card that the porn site charges on my card were made by somebody else; a much more difficult task, frankly. :razz:
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Chuckt said:
Don't really care. I can help only one person per day. Today is not your day and tomorrow doesn't look good either.
You aren't going to make me lose my faith .... so whatever you think you have is not strong enough because you aren't the only one that has challenged me over the years and if you happen to have something for me to work on, I am just going to tell you to get in line and wait.
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Gotta admit, I like that response, especially about "not your day.":yahoo:

BTW - what GURPS said. A poor translation of the original KJV did confuse their definition of kill to murder. Scholars of the original transcripts have concured that it was a bad translation.

To kill in self defense of one or others, while a horrible, final outcome, is not banned or forbidden in the Bible. It would be best if it did not occur, but too many times it is best when it does.
 
stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
b23hqb said:
BTW - what GURPS said. A poor translation of the original KJV did confuse their definition of kill to murder. Scholars of the original transcripts have concured that it was a bad translation.
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I kept wondering about his use of the KJV when there are better translations out there. Maybe he's a Rastafarian? :shrug:
 
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Chuckt

Guest
b23hqb said:
Gotta admit, I like that response, especially about "not your day.":yahoo:

BTW - what GURPS said. A poor translation of the original KJV did confuse their definition of kill to murder. Scholars of the original transcripts have concured that it was a bad translation.

To kill in self defense of one or others, while a horrible, final outcome, is not banned or forbidden in the Bible. It would be best if it did not occur, but too many times it is best when it does.
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There is the permissive will of God and there is the perfect will of God. I'm sure it isn't in the perfect will of God.

One day God will put away all of the evil in the world because that is His perfect will.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
stgislander said:
I kept wondering about his use of the KJV when there are better translations out there. Maybe he's a Rastafarian? :shrug:
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I prefer the NKJV, along with the KJV, myself. Nothing wrong with most of the other translations, I'm just an old fashioned KJV guy
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Chuckt said:
There is the permissive will of God and there is the perfect will of God. I'm sure it isn't in the perfect will of God.

One day God will put away all of the evil in the world because that is His perfect will.
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Right. I for one am ready for that day, anytime.

The perfect will of God would be for all to come to him, and no person would perish for eternity. He knew, and we know, that has not, is not, and will not happen.

The permissive will of God, although not always the best hoped for outcome, is permitted. Killing in defense is permitted, but not the perfect solution. As long as there are people involved, there will never be perfection. Just the world.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
b23hqb said:
Right. I for one am ready for that day, anytime.

The perfect will of God would be for all to come to him, and no person would perish for eternity. He knew, and we know, that has not, is not, and will not happen.

The permissive will of God, although not always the best hoped for outcome, is permitted. Killing in defense is permitted, but not the perfect solution. As long as there are people involved, there will never be perfection. Just the world.
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Not every instance of danger or self defense needs to be met with killing.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Chuckt said:
Not every instance of danger or self defense needs to be met with killing.
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That's quite a blanket statement there, chuck.

First of all, who says it does, or ever has? No one here has. If it did, there would be millions upon millions of killings around the world, probably daily, because somebody felt in danger of something from somebody else.

Dire danger, fear for life danger, thankfully, does not occur that often, even here in the US.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Gilligan said:
Ha! Proofs that he isn't infallible. I rest my case.
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I gotta give it up to chuckt on that one! Proof is on you to show that the charges were not authorized, if in fact they do exist.

You druids have to have some other kind of outlet other than running around the woods naked and swilling your meade.:lmao:
 
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