Cigarette addiction...

[bohman]

... People use to think smoking was something one did or did not do. Not something that one was 'addicted' to.

People also used to think (in colonial times) that smoking was good for you. All that coughing showed that smoking acted as an expecorant; it helped you get any nasty stuff out of your lungs. No need to worry about quitting something that's good for you, right?

I just happen to be enjoying this debate.

Me, too.

 

[tommyjones]

...no idea what she thinks. I know what she said.

i'm a little disapointed in you larry.
If she is your wife, aren't you supposed to tell her what she thinks?

 

[Larry Gude]

Bo...

Me, too.

...dude.

 

[Larry Gude]

I tell...

i'm a little disapointed in you larry.
If she is your wife, aren't you supposed to tell her what she thinks?

...her all the time. Those addicts, you just never know what they're gonna do next. Besides smoke.

 

[Tinkerbell]

Addiction is characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, even in the face of negative consequences. Only about 6 percent of people who try to quit are successful for more than a month.

Research has shown how nicotine acts on the brain to produce a number of effects. Of primary importance to its addictive nature are findings that nicotine activates reward pathways—the brain circuitry that regulates feelings of pleasure. A key brain chemical involved in mediating the desire to consume drugs is the neurotransmitter dopamine, and research has shown that nicotine increases levels of dopamine in the reward circuits. This reaction is similar to that seen with other drugs of abuse, and is thought to underlie the pleasurable sensations experienced by many smokers. Nicotine’s pharmacokinetic properties also enhance its abuse potential. The acute effects of nicotine dissipate in a few minutes, as do the associated feelings of reward, which causes the smoker to continue dosing to maintain the drug’s pleasurable effects and prevent withdrawal.

Nicotine withdrawal symptoms include irritability, craving, cognitive and attentional deficits, sleep disturbances, and increased appetite. These symptoms may begin within a few hours after the last cigarette, quickly driving people back to tobacco use.

I've heard/read that chocolate stimulates the pleasure centers of the brain.

And caffeine...well, that's not too good for you either.

That's just great, so today I've learned that I'm not only addicted to cigarettes, but also Reese's Peanut Butter cups and Earl Grey Tea. And all this time I thought I just smoked/ate/drank them because I liked them alot. I'll check myself into rehab right after work. What was the name of that place Lohan went to? It looked nice.

 

[bohman]

...we're not gonna disagree on the ills of cigarettes. We are at odds over how to handle social policy. This kind of crap is un constitutional and political cowardice to boot not to mention an extreme stretch of the science in terms of clear and present danger and any sense of proportion.

The way anti smoking policies are being conducted are mob rule at it's most base. We're not supposed to be a pure democracy. We're supposed to respect people's rights and that includes allowing them to hurt themselves.

I won't disagree with any of that. Especially "political cowardice".

Question: You've been fighting for 2 days to convince us that there is no such thing as nicotine addiction. If there weren't so many people that use the word "addiction" as an excuse to continue bad behavior (instead of just being honest and saying "screw you, I WANT my cigarette), would you be more willing to admit that it does exist?

In other words, if people stopped using addiction as an excuse and treated as a hurdle to overcome instead, would it cease to be so offensive to you?

 

[Larry Gude]

It's not offensive to me...

I won't disagree with any of that. Especially "political cowardice".

Question: You've been fighting for 2 days to convince us that there is no such thing as nicotine addiction. If there weren't so many people that use the word "addiction" as an excuse to continue bad behavior (instead of just being honest and saying "screw you, I WANT my cigarette), would you be more willing to admit that it does exist?

In other words, if people stopped using addiction as an excuse and treated as a hurdle to overcome instead, would it cease to be so offensive to you?

...in the slightest. One of my people is a 40 year smoker who I had this conversation with and he says, without hesitation, that smoking is an addiction, no question about it.

Then, as we dug into it a little bit deeper, he talked about how he never smokes in the car when his wife along, including long trips (which would make me smoke), he can sit through entire movies without any problem and does not smoke in the house. Also, we were planting last week and smoke is a no no, he had zero problem for hour or two stretches until we took breaks.

After awhile he was talking more along the lines of a nasty habit rather than an 'addiction'.

In addition to being interested in what people do and how they think I have a noble interest as well; I believe it makes it harder for people to quit when we bandy about words like 'addiction'. Oh my! I can't quit! After all, I am addicted! Whose to blame?

Look at minorities. They've been told, for over 30 years, if you are poor or don't like your job or commit crime or live in a bad place, why, it's not your fault! The man has conspired to keep you down! The CIA imported drugs to destroy you all! You can't help it!

I think that is insidious and only serves the ends of race hustlers and white guilt politicians while hurting people looking for an excuse where a kick in the azz might help.

What would a ghetto be like if everyone thought and was told; You can stop doing bad. You can start doing good. You can learn and grow and move on to a better life for you and your children. It's no ones fault but yours and no one gets the credit for success but YOU.

We are a social people, Americans. We tend to go with the flow, the trend. What cloths to wear, what to drink, to say, etc. Jelly bean sales went through the roof when Reagan simply had them on his desk. Miller got us to drink lite beer. Al Gore has convinced people freezing their azzes off right now that the planet is burning up and we're all gonna die next week and we have to do something about it, now.

I just think it is a disservice to people to tell them they're trapped when all they gotta do is not buy them anymore, not pick one up any more and not stick it in your mouth any more.

One day at a time.

 

[bohman]

Then, as we dug into it a little bit deeper, he talked about how he never smokes in the car when his wife along, including long trips (which would make me smoke), he can sit through entire movies without any problem and does not smoke in the house. Also, we were planting last week and smoke is a no no, he had zero problem for hour or two stretches until we took breaks.

Hell, Larry, anybody can muddle through a few hours without their fix! The hard part is getting through weeks and months, in order to stop permanently.

In addition to being interested in what people do and how they think I have a noble interest as well; I believe it makes it harder for people to quit when we bandy about words like 'addiction'. Oh my! I can't quit! After all, I am addicted! Whose to blame? . . . I just think it is a disservice to people to tell them they're trapped when all they gotta do is not buy them anymore, not pick one up any more and not stick it in your mouth any more.

One day at a time.

I agree that we should send a message that addiction is not an acceptable excuse for anything. When people committ a crime while high, or to get money to get high, we still throw them in jail, right?

I guess we are really just arguing semantics. You're right, in that people throw the word "addiction" around like it is something mystical that can never be overcome. Given that I've not had a smoke in at least 6 years, I'll step right up and say that you can beat an addiction.

But it's still an addiction.

 

[Larry Gude]

Fine...

Hell, Larry, anybody can muddle through a few hours without their fix! The hard part is getting through weeks and months, in order to stop permanently.




I agree that we should send a message that addiction is not an acceptable excuse for anything. When people committ a crime while high, or to get money to get high, we still throw them in jail, right?

I guess we are really just arguing semantics. You're right, in that people throw the word "addiction" around like it is something mystical that can never be overcome. Given that I've not had a smoke in at least 6 years, I'll step right up and say that you can beat an addiction.

But it's still an addiction.

...it's an addiction. Now, is it any business of the state if you or me or anyone else is addicted to cigarettes?

 

[bohman]

...it's an addiction. Now, is it any business of the state if you or me or anyone else is addicted to cigarettes?

Not in the slightest. I'll drink to that. <---say it quiet or somebody will tax the hell out of that, too.

 

[tommyjones]

...it's an addiction. Now, is it any business of the state if you or me or anyone else is addicted to cigarettes?

how about any of the other drugs that cause addiction, is it any if the states business?

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

how about any of the other drugs that cause addiction, is it any if the states business?

i'm still waiting to see marijuana become legal just so the state can tax it (not so i can smoke it legally..i'm done with that..but I just know its going to happen at some point)

its bound to happen IMO

 

[bohman]

i'm still waiting to see marijuana become legal just so the state can tax it (not so i can smoke it legally..i'm done with that..but I just know its going to happen at some point)

its bound to happen IMO

I used to think that, too, but now I'm not so sure. Can the potential money gained from taxes counter the huge money that's already tied up in the law enforcement resources enforcing its prohibition? Maybe.

 

[tommyjones]

I used to think that, too, but now I'm not so sure. Can the potential money gained from taxes counter the huge money that's already tied up in the law enforcement resources enforcing its prohibition? Maybe.

what about the huge costs associated with the prohibition?

 

[Larry Gude]

Nope...

how about any of the other drugs that cause addiction, is it any if the states business?

...if you look at the crime and corruption and violence associated with drug prohibition it is no different than the 1920's; Look at who it actually benefits.

Criminals.

If we are a free nation, then I am free to be a complete idiot and smoke grass and cigarettes.

If we are not, if I can not smoke grass and cigarettes, I am a subject and all we're really talking about is to what degree.

 

[theArtistFormerlyKnownAs]

I used to think that, too, but now I'm not so sure. Can the potential money gained from taxes counter the huge money that's already tied up in the law enforcement resources enforcing its prohibition? Maybe.

what about the huge costs associated with the prohibition?

I think thats what boh was saying?


I think that if they legalize pot, and tax it, it will easily offset any funds that have been used in enforcing its illegality. I'm sure you understand at least a little bit how much a dealer makes...if the cost was less because it was legal but some of the lower price was still covered by taxes...the state would make a ton of money

 

[Larry Gude]

What does that...

I used to think that, too, but now I'm not so sure. Can the potential money gained from taxes counter the huge money that's already tied up in the law enforcement resources enforcing its prohibition? Maybe.

...mean?

 

[tiltedangel]

Smokers;

Are you addicted to smoking or just don't want to quit the habit?

for me i think it is more a habit...i can go for a few hours at work without smoking with no problem but then when i get home and on my computer then it is really hard not to smoke....me and hubby both smoke and so do our friends i have tried not to smoke when they do but it is really hard...but i have noticed lately that the smell of it in the house is starting to annoy me when it never did and we are discussing quitting we tried the hypnotism thing but that did not work more than 24 hours...probably because there were so many people and disruptions....well we will just keep trying and hopefully soon i will WANT to quit....since if we don't want to we never will...

 

[bohman]

...mean?

Lots of gov't people out of a job when they aren't busy detecting, apprehending, and incarcerating pot dealers and smokers. Granted, some smokers would still need to be incarcerated because I doubt it's ever going to be legal to drive while stoned.

 

[Larry Gude]

And that is part of the corruption...

Lots of gov't people out of a job when they aren't busy detecting, apprehending, and incarcerating pot dealers and smokers. Granted, some smokers would still need to be incarcerated because I doubt it's ever going to be legal to drive while stoned.

...as there are powerful interests that don't want crime to go down too much for that very reason.

The layman, aka 'citizen' would say "Great! We need less government and less spending because the problem is gone!"

The special interest says "You can't do that!"